What about short runner intake manifolds? Any action there?

PhoenixGTS

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A couple of times a year I get bored and check out that other Viper site. Generally I find it to be kind of like a bunch of trash talking rice bois but I saw this "sheetmetal" short runner intake and recall that McLaren blah blah blah concept Viper had a short runner manifold. Anyone seen a Viper engine with something like this on? I really like the look of the stock Gen II intake (one of the reasons I am not interested in a Roe SC) and am never going to go crazy with mods on my engine so not for me, but interesting for bench racing. Given that the plenum is fabbed, wonder where they sources the cast runners with the properly angled injector bosses?

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2000_Black_RT10

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Hopefully you guys don't mind my babbling.. if some aren't familiar of the aspects of short runner vs long, and plenum sizes, I'll share a bit of my work experience.

There is a pulse when the valves slam shut, this pulse returns towards the plenum and returns back to the combustion chamber and charges the combustion chamber with even more air / fuel mixture force in addition to a single path flow from the plenum to the combustion chamber.

It's a phenomenon of science of how the runner length and the size of the plenum is tuned to a specific rate for torque / hp at a specific rpm for those who aren't aware. If the runner is short, the time for this force to travel to / from the combustion chamber is shorter = higher frequency. If the runner is longer, the time to travel is longer = lower frequency. The plenum itself, can absorb time / volume, the larger the plenum, the more it soaks up time.

Therfore, a short runner and small plenum will provide a return force at a high frequency, which will be available for return force charge / performance at a high rpm = high frequency. A long runner with a large plenum will provide a return induction force at a low rpm = low frequency.

Vipers have a long runner, which provides a return induction force at low rpm, it's why the Viper engine has quite a bit of low end torque. Shorten the runner, and the max induction return force result will be at a higher rpm, which may not be ideal for a 8.0 L V10, which is not a high revving engine. High revving engines need power at a high frequency, such as short runners or a small plenum.

The problem today is that not many manufacturers have designed a feasible runner / plenum design to be dynamic, such as a runner which can change length or a plenum which can change the size of the volume. Volvo has designed a variable sized plenum, but it's quite unusual.

If this doesn't make any sense, feel free to comment. In the end, I don't feel the 8.0L is an ideal candidate for a short runner. I've designed OEM intake manifolds for several years and I just wated to share my opinion, or any knowledge if it helps for what it's worth. :2tu:
 
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PhoenixGTS

PhoenixGTS

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I'll share a bit of my work experience.
Hey we knew all that! :D Just wondered if anyone has made a short runner intake work. Fat Albert here in Phoenix tells me you could spin his stock sized 488 ci motors to 7,000+ rpm if you could find an intake/head package to feed them (I believe his peak power is still right around 6,000 rpm with a reworked stock manifold.
 

FE 065

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Another view


2632shortrunner2-med.jpg


I've read where the short runner set ups can be impossible to tune.

..I wonder if 10 one-way reed valve cages at the entryway of the intake runner might cure that :)


Or..NEW for 2007 - at least one Japanese crotch rocket manufacturer is employing variable length intake tract technology to give the rider his cake and let him eat it too..!


The airbox of the motorcycle has short (3-4"?) velocity stacks attached to its' floor. At high RPM, the computer signals a servo motor to lift the velocity stacks up off of the floor of the airbox, reducing intake tract length for more top end power.

Just DO IT :)
 

ROGUE

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Another view


2632shortrunner2-med.jpg


You want one just like that... call Paolo, the pic you posted is his and he will be selling them.


I've read where the short runner set ups can be impossible to tune.

Only if the plenum is very very small and can't keep up with the demands of the motor. Other than that it's no big deal. Yes it moves the powerband around but in many of the high HP cars I wouldn't be surprised to see a 100+ hp gain across the upper rpm range from just a manifold swap.
 

FE 065

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Okay, so what's a plenum size adequate for an 8 litre 10cyl? I've seen aftermarket manifolds for 6 cylinders with plenums about the same size as this one. Meaning about half the displacement or so.

Unless there's a large cover on top adding volume to this one.

Various Viper individual runner (IR) manifolds have been around in various forms for years, but so far I don't recall anyone successfully having one on a street car.
 

2000_Black_RT10

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Or..NEW for 2007 - at least one Japanese crotch rocket manufacturer is employing variable length intake tract technology to give the rider his cake and let him eat it too..!


The airbox of the motorcycle has short (3-4"?) velocity stacks attached to its' floor. At high RPM, the computer signals a servo motor to lift the velocity stacks up off of the floor of the airbox, reducing intake tract length for more top end power.

Just DO IT :)

Thanks for the heads-up, that sounds like a neat setup.


I'll share a bit of my work experience.
Hey we knew all that! :D

ok
 
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