agentf1
Enthusiast
Read this on Z06vette.com and thought it was pretty interesting. The SRT sounds pretty fast. Read here. http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15437
Z06 against SRT 10
- Thread starter agentf1
- Start date
Venom Lover
Enthusiast
Seems there are many Vette people not wild about SRT styling....
So much for the theory that the SRT was styled to go after the Vette market. With MSRP around $80K, it sure isn't priced to go after the Vette market.
So much for the theory that the SRT was styled to go after the Vette market. With MSRP around $80K, it sure isn't priced to go after the Vette market.
Craig 201 MPH
Enthusiast
I find it funny that he calls the styling dissappointing and plain when he drives a C5, and where a guy replies to say "but I bet you could outhandle him" what a clueless person. We'll see more than 1.01g out of this car and with a goal of 60-0 in less than 100 feet, it will be the vette brakes the magazines rip on now.
Viperfreak2
Enthusiast
He's from the Planet of endless Good-Will stores where a bargain (cheap) is considered a good thing. If the SRT was making the true numbers and it easily blasts past a car that can do 12 in the 1/4.....I can't wait.
onerareviper
Enthusiast
PVO will not let us down in the performance department. This car is going to establish a 'new level' in performance. I saw these guys/girls at work during the Mid-Ohio Viper days event. THEY ARE FREAKS!!! SPEED FREAKS!!! They share our same passion for speed/performance.
Now make me something I will drool over, that is street legal. GTS PLEASE!!!!!
My .02
Now make me something I will drool over, that is street legal. GTS PLEASE!!!!!
My .02
One guy says.."perhaps Chevy will get serious and stop messing around with decals and badges..
There once were discussions on what Chevy will do for the 50th Anniversary Corvette (427 engine,supercharger or at least put the Z06s LS6 into the car).Nope only decals and badges...decals and badges.
MichaelP
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by manasas1:
He's from the Planet of endless Good-Will stores where a bargain (cheap) is considered a good thing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
He's from the Planet of endless Good-Will stores where a bargain (cheap) is considered a good thing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
MichaelP
Enthusiast
Did you read the guys next post.
I think he is more like us then you guys might think.
I've always been a Viper fan...for the most part because they were true to their mission... A completely impractical, irresponsible, difficult to drive...BEAST! Seems they're going "mainstream"...The thing looks way too soft and comfortable now...a bit of a cross between an S2000 and Jaguar XKS or something. I would buy a Superformance Cobra and a new Z for the 84k.
Not ripping on the Viper...Just disappointed!
I think he is more like us then you guys might think.
I've always been a Viper fan...for the most part because they were true to their mission... A completely impractical, irresponsible, difficult to drive...BEAST! Seems they're going "mainstream"...The thing looks way too soft and comfortable now...a bit of a cross between an S2000 and Jaguar XKS or something. I would buy a Superformance Cobra and a new Z for the 84k.
Not ripping on the Viper...Just disappointed!
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
The irony is astounding! The guys with the ugly duckling of the Vette lineup critiquing the Viper
Then again, I've seem Vipers with hideous black plastic pieces around the exhaust openings, so maybe these parts fell out of the same ugly tree as the Z06 fell from (repeatedly)?
As for the performance - I dunno how many of you guys really drag race, but if a car is pulling strongly from another in every gear, enough for the losing drivery to say it "wasnt even close", that signifies a BIG horsepower difference. A Viper GTS will pull "hard" on a C5, but it won't pull very ******* a Z06.
If the SRT is as much faster than the Z06 as the GTS is over the C5, I think we will all be happy campers. If an '01 Z is running low-mid 12's at 115mph or so, a commanding lead - enough to 'pull hard' is going to require a good second or more in ET and 8-10mph in trap speed to be "not even close".
Sounds like the SRT is going to be a real runner.... and once again GM is ***** -slapped and shown their role in the automotive food chain
Then again, I've seem Vipers with hideous black plastic pieces around the exhaust openings, so maybe these parts fell out of the same ugly tree as the Z06 fell from (repeatedly)?
As for the performance - I dunno how many of you guys really drag race, but if a car is pulling strongly from another in every gear, enough for the losing drivery to say it "wasnt even close", that signifies a BIG horsepower difference. A Viper GTS will pull "hard" on a C5, but it won't pull very ******* a Z06.
If the SRT is as much faster than the Z06 as the GTS is over the C5, I think we will all be happy campers. If an '01 Z is running low-mid 12's at 115mph or so, a commanding lead - enough to 'pull hard' is going to require a good second or more in ET and 8-10mph in trap speed to be "not even close".
Sounds like the SRT is going to be a real runner.... and once again GM is ***** -slapped and shown their role in the automotive food chain
V10 MOJO
Enthusiast
TurboSnake
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Craig 201 MPH:
I find it funny that he calls the styling dissappointing and plain when he drives a C5<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And thats coming from a guy that drives a Shelby Z!
I find it funny that he calls the styling dissappointing and plain when he drives a C5<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And thats coming from a guy that drives a Shelby Z!
TurboSnake
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Brunton:
and once again GM is ***** -slapped and shown their role in the automotive food chain
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think so,they are doing great in the LeMans Series!
and once again GM is ***** -slapped and shown their role in the automotive food chain
I don't think so,they are doing great in the LeMans Series!
singlemd4u
Enthusiast
I'm disappointed to hear 84K for the 2003 srt, And then what another 2-3K for the hardtop in 6 months. I thought 73-75K . Now I need to reconsider, this is getting very pricey.
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
singlemd,
I woulnd't worry just yet about the price. I don't think they can justify a huge price increase, and this info we have is from a guy none of us knows on a Z06 forum who supposedly heard this from a fuel management engineer, who is likely under non-dislosure. It may not have happened as we heard, or more likely the guy just threw out a number - whether it was right or wrong... that guy might not even know the real cost.
We'll see when it comes out...
TurboSnake,
You're right - they are... I was watching the ALMS race today I recorded from Sears Point. However I would say that a pure race car has little resemblance to the street car, especially in the case of the Corvette that not only has a full out race chassis, but also has a different engine than is in the street car. At least the Viper has the same basic motor. It's great to see "Vipers" win in Le Mans, but it's just for the ego - these ain't street cars. And let's face it - on the street, the Vette has always placed 2nd next to the Viper - and though the '02 Z06 puts up a very respectable fight, it would seem the gap will only widen in 2003.
I woulnd't worry just yet about the price. I don't think they can justify a huge price increase, and this info we have is from a guy none of us knows on a Z06 forum who supposedly heard this from a fuel management engineer, who is likely under non-dislosure. It may not have happened as we heard, or more likely the guy just threw out a number - whether it was right or wrong... that guy might not even know the real cost.
We'll see when it comes out...
TurboSnake,
You're right - they are... I was watching the ALMS race today I recorded from Sears Point. However I would say that a pure race car has little resemblance to the street car, especially in the case of the Corvette that not only has a full out race chassis, but also has a different engine than is in the street car. At least the Viper has the same basic motor. It's great to see "Vipers" win in Le Mans, but it's just for the ego - these ain't street cars. And let's face it - on the street, the Vette has always placed 2nd next to the Viper - and though the '02 Z06 puts up a very respectable fight, it would seem the gap will only widen in 2003.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by singlemd4u:
I'm disappointed to hear 84K for the 2003 srt, And then what another 2-3K for the hardtop in 6 months. I thought 73-75K . Now I need to reconsider, this is getting very pricey.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tony Estes:
Try top speed OVER 190 mph and base price UNDER $80,000.
THIS CAR WILL NOT BE SLOWER THAN THE CURRENT GTS !!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
singlemd4u, heres a quote from VCA president Tony Estes back on 4/5/02. Thats under 80k.
I'm disappointed to hear 84K for the 2003 srt, And then what another 2-3K for the hardtop in 6 months. I thought 73-75K . Now I need to reconsider, this is getting very pricey.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tony Estes:
Try top speed OVER 190 mph and base price UNDER $80,000.
THIS CAR WILL NOT BE SLOWER THAN THE CURRENT GTS !!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
singlemd4u, heres a quote from VCA president Tony Estes back on 4/5/02. Thats under 80k.
agentf1
Enthusiast
Steve Ferguson
Enthusiast
As Tony said, BASE PRICE, but keep in mind: Gas Guzzler plus dealer mark-up will most likely hit those numbers. Just the gas tax alone will get it over the 80,000 line.
singlemd4u
Enthusiast
Well if the final price after a few grand for the hardtop starts creeping into the mid eighties to dare I say high eighties (84k plus 3k)then I have to admit the GT40 is starting to look awfully tempting at under 100k.
I just like the GT40 looks better and with less weight and more HP its getting harder for me to say..MOPAR or NO CAR.
I just like the GT40 looks better and with less weight and more HP its getting harder for me to say..MOPAR or NO CAR.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve Ferguson:
plus dealer mark-up will most likely hit those numbers. Just the gas tax alone will get it over the 80,000 line.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
"DEALER MARK-UP"
plus dealer mark-up will most likely hit those numbers. Just the gas tax alone will get it over the 80,000 line.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Performin Norman
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vetteboy:
Yes, this new Viper will be quiker in most every aspect, or at least should be, than the z06. However, the quality of the Z06 is far superior, there is just absolutely no comparison. Imagine giving the vette a 500 500 500 horsepower motor, it would BLOW the doors off the viper. but it probably would not fit, seeing sa how the viper is about 85% hood and 15% rest of the body. i will take the Z06 anyday, 80 grand, what a ripoff to pay far a bigger version of the honda s2000. dodge v10 lol! wait for the new z06 boys, just wait. GM > Chrysler. and by the way, i know i am being an *** but it is true, you boys do have some raw power i will admit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, I have my flame suit on. Go for it guys.
Yes, this new Viper will be quiker in most every aspect, or at least should be, than the z06. However, the quality of the Z06 is far superior, there is just absolutely no comparison. Imagine giving the vette a 500 500 500 horsepower motor, it would BLOW the doors off the viper. but it probably would not fit, seeing sa how the viper is about 85% hood and 15% rest of the body. i will take the Z06 anyday, 80 grand, what a ripoff to pay far a bigger version of the honda s2000. dodge v10 lol! wait for the new z06 boys, just wait. GM > Chrysler. and by the way, i know i am being an *** but it is true, you boys do have some raw power i will admit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, I have my flame suit on. Go for it guys.
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agentf1
Enthusiast
Norman, you on the list for a SRT10? How about C6 Z06? Its going to be pretty hard to improve on the stable you have now!
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vetteboy:
Yes, this new Viper will be quiker in most every aspect, or at least should be, than the z06. However, the quality of the Z06 is far superior, there is just absolutely no comparison. Imagine giving the vette a 500 500 500 horsepower motor, it would BLOW the doors off the viper. but it probably would not fit, seeing sa how the viper is about 85% hood and 15% rest of the body. i will take the Z06 anyday, 80 grand, what a ripoff to pay far a bigger version of the honda s2000. dodge v10 lol! wait for the new z06 boys, just wait. GM > Chrysler. and by the way, i know i am being an *** but it is true, you boys do have some raw power i will admit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not gonna flame ya... but the only thing you really said in your post was that the Z06 quality was higher. I'm curious how you arrived at this? I've owned 3 Vettes and none of them had particularly good quality. From my friends with Z06's and from my reading of you guys' site it doesn't seem like the Z06 is any better. In as-delivered quality, the Viper is light years ahead of the Z06. In terms of warranty repairs? I think the Viper is much less prone to issues requiring warranty repair too. As for long-term problems? I dunno.. Z06 has only been out for 2 years - can't really judge. And I KNOW you don't want me to include '01 model year problems in there
Yes, this new Viper will be quiker in most every aspect, or at least should be, than the z06. However, the quality of the Z06 is far superior, there is just absolutely no comparison. Imagine giving the vette a 500 500 500 horsepower motor, it would BLOW the doors off the viper. but it probably would not fit, seeing sa how the viper is about 85% hood and 15% rest of the body. i will take the Z06 anyday, 80 grand, what a ripoff to pay far a bigger version of the honda s2000. dodge v10 lol! wait for the new z06 boys, just wait. GM > Chrysler. and by the way, i know i am being an *** but it is true, you boys do have some raw power i will admit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not gonna flame ya... but the only thing you really said in your post was that the Z06 quality was higher. I'm curious how you arrived at this? I've owned 3 Vettes and none of them had particularly good quality. From my friends with Z06's and from my reading of you guys' site it doesn't seem like the Z06 is any better. In as-delivered quality, the Viper is light years ahead of the Z06. In terms of warranty repairs? I think the Viper is much less prone to issues requiring warranty repair too. As for long-term problems? I dunno.. Z06 has only been out for 2 years - can't really judge. And I KNOW you don't want me to include '01 model year problems in there
agentf1
Enthusiast
Mike, funny you say that because I got the opposite impression reading this site, I hear about things like hoods cracking, sills yellowing and bubbling from heat, porous blocks and oil pans, overheating problems. I kinda have been chalking that up to isolated incidents (hopefully) and think that people that are having problems are much more vocal than people that don't. I am not going to tell you the Z06 is a better quality car since I don't have first hand experience with Viper ownership yet and couldn't do an honest comparison. I am aware that the Z06 has its problems like oil consumption with the 01's (I am told this is isolated incidents also but you wouldn't know that from reading Z06vette.com), cheap leather and noisy trans(I don't percieve the tranny noise as a problem rather a characteristic of the car but some do). Not sure the point I am trying to make here other than it is funny how people percieve things. If I had to guess they are probably close in quality (or lack of) but they are american muscle cars not Porsches or Mercedes.
agentf1
Enthusiast
Oh, I forgot cracking frames (recall 998 999) ;-)
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
AgentF1,
Any car will have it's problems - like the fact that the 2001 Z06 guzzles oil and they ALL have defective engines. Or the fact that the column lock had issues on the Vette. All of the Corvettes I have owned had wavy paint - ludicrous on a $40k car.
In initial quality, I bet the Viper is one of the highest even if just due to the fact that they are all hand inspected before leaving the factory. So I take it you're talking about the # of problems experienced as the car ages? Well, we all know the clutch in the Z isn't very strong. Some folks have had *frame failures* on these cars too. A whole bunch were recalled due to oil consumption and many more were fixed. The '02s aint been out long so it's hard to compare them.
We really can't compare a 2 years of one car to 10 years of another. Hood cracking is mostly a Gen I issue. Sills yellowing is mostly on silver and white cars (98/99), porous oil pans affect a very few cars and it was a bad batch of pans. The overheating is apparently due to a crappy bunch of water pumps.
Would you *really* want to go into all the problems the Vettes have had since '92? Even the C5 has many more recalls on it. Check the NHTSA's website. I don't expect you to take *my* word for it - according to their data, the Vette has *vastly* more recalls than the Viper. It's really not relevant to point to problems you've read about. I'm sure many more problems than you posted can be found on the Vette website.
Listen, I know you have some sort of beef with the Viper - but seriosuly, the Vette is a *vastly* more problematic car than the Viper. And combined with Chevy's "we dont care" attitude and the abysmal dealer service, it's alot LESS likely that these problems will be fixed than with the Viper.
The point is - it's real easy to take a stand against a specific type of car with dubious data. The point is the guy said the Z06 quality was vastly superior. I wonder if he has his head in the sand about "GM quality" or if GM had him sign something before they agreed to fix his rings for burnign a quart every 400 miles.
Hmm... things that make ya wonder, huh?
Any car will have it's problems - like the fact that the 2001 Z06 guzzles oil and they ALL have defective engines. Or the fact that the column lock had issues on the Vette. All of the Corvettes I have owned had wavy paint - ludicrous on a $40k car.
In initial quality, I bet the Viper is one of the highest even if just due to the fact that they are all hand inspected before leaving the factory. So I take it you're talking about the # of problems experienced as the car ages? Well, we all know the clutch in the Z isn't very strong. Some folks have had *frame failures* on these cars too. A whole bunch were recalled due to oil consumption and many more were fixed. The '02s aint been out long so it's hard to compare them.
We really can't compare a 2 years of one car to 10 years of another. Hood cracking is mostly a Gen I issue. Sills yellowing is mostly on silver and white cars (98/99), porous oil pans affect a very few cars and it was a bad batch of pans. The overheating is apparently due to a crappy bunch of water pumps.
Would you *really* want to go into all the problems the Vettes have had since '92? Even the C5 has many more recalls on it. Check the NHTSA's website. I don't expect you to take *my* word for it - according to their data, the Vette has *vastly* more recalls than the Viper. It's really not relevant to point to problems you've read about. I'm sure many more problems than you posted can be found on the Vette website.
Listen, I know you have some sort of beef with the Viper - but seriosuly, the Vette is a *vastly* more problematic car than the Viper. And combined with Chevy's "we dont care" attitude and the abysmal dealer service, it's alot LESS likely that these problems will be fixed than with the Viper.
The point is - it's real easy to take a stand against a specific type of car with dubious data. The point is the guy said the Z06 quality was vastly superior. I wonder if he has his head in the sand about "GM quality" or if GM had him sign something before they agreed to fix his rings for burnign a quart every 400 miles.
Hmm... things that make ya wonder, huh?
garolittle
Enthusiast
I looked it up the Bible ... "The Vette shall knell at the alter of humility".
Vreracing
Enthusiast
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
I just re-read my above post - seems kinda harsh perhaps.
I guess my point is simply this... neither the Viper nor the Vette is going to win any awards for quality like Honda or Lexus would win - that's just life.
I *highly* doubt anyone uses this as a measure of whether or not to buy a car - like "hmm, I really like the Viper, but they have too many problems, so I think I'll get this Vette instead". That just doesn't happen. More likely, the Vette is an only car, whereas the Viper really needs to be a second car. Not many folks spend $80k+ on a toy car... and the folks that do probably aren't looking at the Corvette as a reasonable competitor since they make so many, and since it's not very exotic looking and except for the '02 Z06, doesn't really have exotic level performance.
Want something really reliable and fast? Get an NSX or something
I guess my point is simply this... neither the Viper nor the Vette is going to win any awards for quality like Honda or Lexus would win - that's just life.
I *highly* doubt anyone uses this as a measure of whether or not to buy a car - like "hmm, I really like the Viper, but they have too many problems, so I think I'll get this Vette instead". That just doesn't happen. More likely, the Vette is an only car, whereas the Viper really needs to be a second car. Not many folks spend $80k+ on a toy car... and the folks that do probably aren't looking at the Corvette as a reasonable competitor since they make so many, and since it's not very exotic looking and except for the '02 Z06, doesn't really have exotic level performance.
Want something really reliable and fast? Get an NSX or something
onerareviper
Enthusiast
Vetteboy,
YAWN.....
So your now saying a Z06 in faster than a Viper GTS? Please..... Give me a break.... Agreed, GREAT car for the money, and I actually really like the car. But you loose all credibility when you imply it is faster than a GTS (0-60 nope, 1/4 mile nope, top speed - pleeaasssee) . Or that it handles better. It does neither. PERIOD.
Now if you said it brakes better, you would be correct. But that is all it does better, my friend. And I have driven a Z06, and several of our members have both cars. You may question my statement, but why would someone who owns both cars lie? Maybe one of them can chime in on this post.
Later
YAWN.....
So your now saying a Z06 in faster than a Viper GTS? Please..... Give me a break.... Agreed, GREAT car for the money, and I actually really like the car. But you loose all credibility when you imply it is faster than a GTS (0-60 nope, 1/4 mile nope, top speed - pleeaasssee) . Or that it handles better. It does neither. PERIOD.
Now if you said it brakes better, you would be correct. But that is all it does better, my friend. And I have driven a Z06, and several of our members have both cars. You may question my statement, but why would someone who owns both cars lie? Maybe one of them can chime in on this post.
Later
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