would retarding the timing make the engine

vegasviper

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run leaner if no other change is made. I know the A/F is the factor.


But i need to know the effect of retarding only with no changes
 

KenH

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I know that advancing the timing will cause the motor to run leaner so yes, retarding the timing would make it run richer.
 

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Advancing the timing requires LESS fuel for the same torque production. Retarding the timing requires MORE fuel for the same torque production. On the extreme ends, they should show a difference in AFR. (considering this "timing offset" from its original value)

Yes, retarding the timing with no other changes should make the engine lean out slightly.

This is due to the amount of time during the rotation that the mixture has to burn. Advanced timing has more time to burn, so it consumes more of the fuel in the mixture. The ******** engine has less time, so it requires more fuel knowing that much of it wont have time to burn completely.
 
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DAMN YANKEE

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Gentlemen, it all depends on where you are in your timing when you advance or retard the timing....
In other words Final is right IF and only IF your not already significantly past BTDC right now....

Heck if we know....so....Vegas, what are you up against???
 

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Gentlemen, it all depends on where you are in your timing when you advance or retard the timing....
In other words Final is right IF and only IF your not already significantly past BTDC right now....

Heck if we know....so....Vegas, what are you up against???

This doesnt make sense, you must have mis-typed this? You cannot be "Past Before Top Dead Center", you can be either BTDC or ATDC, both of which would need to be in degrees. Perhaps you meant to say Past TDC, not Past BTDC?

All Vipers run in the range of 0-50 degrees BTDC, no Vipers run any ignition ATDC.

Keep in mind the Viper uses a spark map, it is infinitely variable not simple timing like a Distributor would be.
 
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I know that advancing the timing will cause the motor to run leaner so yes, retarding the timing would make it run richer.

Advancing the timing doesn't make it run leaner, but it does increase the "in cylinder" temperature by burning a larger portion of the air/fuel mixture, thereby producing more BTU's of heat..

The air/fuel ratio is what it is. Retarding the timing will lower the amount of mixture burned in the cylinder, reducing heat in the chamber (safer for the pistons), and increasing the temp in the exhaust header (harder on exhaust valves). Advancing the timing does the opposite. It lowers the exhaust gas temp but raises the "in cylinder" temp, making it more likely to melt a piston on a long endurance run. I've seen some that were lured into thinking they had a safe tune because the exhaust gas temps were low, and then went out and melted the pistons. You must be able to read a spark plug to "know" what is going on in the cylinder even when the EGT's are low.

Drag race tunes typically run a lot of timing to burn as much mixture as possible in the chamber which makes more power. An endurance tune, for instance a "One Mile" Viper race, or an offshore boat, must run less timing in order to prevent melting pistons. This raises EGT's, and is why we also run Inconel valves and Berrylium Copper valves seats on the exhaust for endurance apps.

When you richen the mixture it's different. Cylinder temps and exhaust temps go hand in hand with an air/fuel ratio change. Temps in both the cylinder and the exhaust both go down when the mixture is richened. When you lean it, they both go up. Different than timing effects.
 
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DAMN YANKEE

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Final, whew tired...you are correct past TDC...sorry....but Greg is worlds ahead of me
now..
 
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