just a goofy thought about granny aids on Vipers...

Toby

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 22, 2002
Posts
2,589
Reaction score
0
Location
Mason, OH (Cincinnati)
I know it goes against all of what "Viper" is all about but I wonder how well an 09 ACR would perform if it had all the granny aids the Vette does.

I think it would be rather embarrassing to GM considering the ACR performs so well now.

Signed,

Bench racing at its finest.
 

DEADEYE

Viper Owner
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Posts
558
Reaction score
0
Location
Harvey, La.
Those aids don't make the car faster. The pro's say they run slower times with it. What I think it does do is add a false sense of confidence which will make a novice push the car a little harder. I probably would lol.
 

chimazo

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Posts
421
Reaction score
0
Location
Clarksburg, MD
For how long was ABS aginst what Viper was all about? I think that the primary reason the Viper doesn't have stability control/traction control is because of marketing - Viper customers past and present have spoken and Chrysler listens to its potential market. What other reason could there be? I don't see the big fuss about having these aids on a Viper, as long as you could turn them off if you choose. There would be more Vipers still around if it had these features.

The problem (slightly off topic) is that there has already been precedent set in determining a degree of liability by NOT including electronic aids in this day and age. Porsche faced this recently when a Carrera GT crashed during a track day. "When a 'race car for the streets' is sold to anyone with enough money, regardless of his ability to drive it, and it doesn’t even incorporate modern electronic safety devices that correct driver errors, then maybe the manufacturer should accept some responsibility for the foreseeable deaths that will result." (attorney Craig McClellan). Porsche was found partially liable.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 15, 2000
Posts
17,923
Reaction score
0
Location
tampa, fl USA
The pro's say they run slower times with it.
If that's the case then why don't the pros remove them? Most series' allow the removal of ABS, TC, launch, etc.

What I think it does do is add a false sense of confidence which will make a novice push the car a little harder.
100% true. Nanny aids do more harm than good on sports cars for just that reason. Riding shotgun in a Lambo Murci around Sebring which ended in a 360 at turn 17 convinced me those nanny aids have no business on a sports car.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 15, 2000
Posts
17,923
Reaction score
0
Location
tampa, fl USA
Porsche was found partially liable.
And it was BS too. There were a number of things that caused that accident, of which the Porsche was the least at fault if at all. But leave it to a greedy U.S. lawyer, unreasonable grieving widow and ignorant jury to spoil the fun for everybody.

No disrespect meant to the deceased.
 
OP
OP
T

Toby

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 22, 2002
Posts
2,589
Reaction score
0
Location
Mason, OH (Cincinnati)
My thoughts transfered to words in my first post was not compete.

I was thinking having the aids for street use and not track use.

More specifically, TC that could be turned on or off depending on road conditions. Like rain.

and I agree with Chuck...no (g)nanny aids for the track for cars like this. Takes the driver out of driving.
 

mike & juli

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Posts
11,715
Reaction score
0
Location
Upstate NY
That's why we have a BRUTE/Viper; AND a nanny-aided-paddle-shifting Vette. TWO VERY VERY different beasts...simply CANNOT compare the two. Used for very different reasons. ~juli
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Posts
4,969
Reaction score
0
Location
Omaha NE.
Viper owners really do have a blood pack against "nanny's" but think how many more they would sell if they offered a couple creature comforts like cruise control or an AUTOMATIC. Now then they would get more women (no offense to you women owners). Don't like Vettes but 90% of the sales are autos so it must mean something huh?

Don't get me wrong I don't need or want the extras but some people do.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 15, 2000
Posts
17,923
Reaction score
0
Location
tampa, fl USA
Viper owners really do have a blood pack against "nanny's" but think how many more they would sell if they offered a couple creature comforts like cruise control or an AUTOMATIC. Now then they would get more women (no offense to you women owners). Don't like Vettes but 90% of the sales are autos so it must mean something huh?

Don't get me wrong I don't need or want the extras but some people do.

They would sell a lot more Vipers if they came with a economy 4-******, but I'm not so sure the nannies would help sell a Viper much. The Z06 is the only Vett to compare in this case and at least it doesn't come with a auto or convertible and I really doubt the Z06 crowd would not buy a Z06 if it didn't have the rest of that nanny crap on it.

Besides, if they're gonna put nannies on a Viper I might as well switch to Porsche since Porsche's track resume beats just about everything. The Viper would have lost it's feel and image.
 

Warfang

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Posts
6,912
Reaction score
0
Location
California, East Bay
And it was BS too. There were a number of things that caused that accident, of which the Porsche was the least at fault if at all. But leave it to a greedy U.S. lawyer, unreasonable grieving widow and ignorant jury to spoil the fun for everybody.

No disrespect meant to the deceased.

It's not the deceased that's disrespected, but the grieving and greedy widow and lawyer. Anyone who buys a car like the CarerraGT knows what it is about. The dead, of all people, would NOT have sued Porsche. It's not like Porsche knowingly used a substandard part or silenced an engineer on a potential hazard.

I'm curious... have they done a study as to whether or not nannytech would have saved his life? I put money on NO. Perhaps we should all just ride on rails and push a go pedal. :rolleyes:
 

Warfang

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Posts
6,912
Reaction score
0
Location
California, East Bay
Viper owners really do have a blood pack against "nanny's" but think how many more they would sell if they offered a couple creature comforts like cruise control or an AUTOMATIC. Now then they would get more women (no offense to you women owners). Don't like Vettes but 90% of the sales are autos so it must mean something huh?

Don't get me wrong I don't need or want the extras but some people do.

Drove the Viper today... saw none other, but saw 5 vettes, what looked like 100 porsches and a Lambo. It's not a car for everyone, and I like it that way.

I don't think Ferarri ever has meetings where they discuss how they can sell more units by compromising their cars. I suppose an F430 would sell a heck of a lot more if it came in a V6, automatic, and 4 seats. That would increase the volume, making it a lot more affordable. :dunno:
 

VENOMAHOLIC

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Posts
1,832
Reaction score
9
Location
Rochester, NY
1) The only thing that adding nannie tech will do with absolute certainty is add weight and increase the price of new Vipers.
2) Vipers would win more races if restrictor plates were removed.
3) Dodge would sell more Vipers if they actually put them in a commercial once in a while.
4) If you can afford a Viper and you want tech nannies... add them yourself.
 

RACR77

Viper Owner
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Posts
154
Reaction score
0
Location
Alberta
1) The only thing that adding nannie tech will do with absolute certainty is add weight and increase the price of new Vipers.
2) Vipers would win more races if restrictor plates were removed.
3) Dodge would sell more Vipers if they actually put them in a commercial once in a while.
4) If you can afford a Viper and you want tech nannies... add them yourself.


Thank you, very well said :2tu:
 

chimazo

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Posts
421
Reaction score
0
Location
Clarksburg, MD
All cars are mandated to have ESC by 2012.

Why would you think additional controls would add additional weight? Most everything runs off the same wheel sensors that ABS gets its info from. C5 and C6 Z06's weigh less than any Viper ever did, even with its "nanny controls." More glaringly, you might ask why a car the price of a Viper doesn't have all available technology.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 15, 2000
Posts
17,923
Reaction score
0
Location
tampa, fl USA
As for ESC it is hard to believe that the morons at the NHTSA are so unbelievably stupid that they categorize SUVs in the same group as sports cars which are virtually impossible to roll in the same conditions the NHTSA uses to roll SUVs and sedans. Yet the boneheads mandate the same "safety" placebos across the board. Idiots.
 

Warfang

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Posts
6,912
Reaction score
0
Location
California, East Bay
All cars are mandated to have ESC by 2012.

Why would you think additional controls would add additional weight? Most everything runs off the same wheel sensors that ABS gets its info from. C5 and C6 Z06's weigh less than any Viper ever did, even with its "nanny controls." More glaringly, you might ask why a car the price of a Viper doesn't have all available technology.

Because nannytech is a negative to the full driver experience... it's like annoying banner ads... some websites make you pay extra to not see them. For some people, less is more.

The c6 zo6 uses an aluminum frame. High tech no doubt, but not as sturdy as he Viper's steel frame. Weighs less, but feels squirrely on the track... not a compromise I personally would take, so I'm glad SRT plays it the way I like it. That's why I have a Viper. If you prefer all the do-dads.... get a vette, or purchase an aftermarket upgrade from one of our great VCA sponsor venders.
 

chimazo

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Posts
421
Reaction score
0
Location
Clarksburg, MD
On the racetrack, I understand the potential "negative" aspect with regard to personally being in control of what the car does in your hands, but that track time is perhaps, what, less than 1% of miles put on Vipers (or any other makes)?

On the street, where any number of things can f%*k up, be it rain, oil, poor judgement, innattentive drivers, etc., why would you be opposed to something that could potentially save your car (or life), especially if you could turn it off whenever you chose to (as in C5/C6 Z06's)?

Stability control does more than try to keep you from rolling over (which I agree is highly unlikely in any typical car), it will help keep the rear of your car from trying to pass the front, which we've seen quite a few Vipers do with nothing more than cold/old tires and too much throttle.

The lack of any electronic driving/safety aids obviously didn't keep me from owning a Viper. I don't think adding ABS (a decade late) kept people from buying Vipers, either, though that would certainly qualify as a "nanny." Machismo/attitude is one thing, accepting that some Viper track days and some HPDE's doesn't make you Kimi Räikkönen is another. Ferrari's have all sorts of electronic aids, and they have as good of racing heritage as it gets. Does that make their cars any less desirable to "pure drivers?"
I know, I know - I'll save you the trouble of saying it - I just don't get it and should still be driving a Corvette (of which I don't understand the derisive connotation used consistantly on this forum when the majority probably owned one at some point (or still do)).
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 15, 2000
Posts
17,923
Reaction score
0
Location
tampa, fl USA
On the street, where any number of things can f%*k up, be it rain, oil, poor judgement, innattentive drivers, etc., why would you be opposed to something that could potentially save your car (or life), especially if you could turn it off whenever you chose to (as in C5/C6 Z06's)?

1. I don't want to pay for it.
2. I don't want to repair it when it fails.
3. I don't want to work around it while I'm working on something else.
4. I don't want to limit my aftermarket choices due to compatibility issues.
5. Even though I don't race on the street, I still enjoy the sport of driving on the street. I enjoy the thrill of knowing I am the one thing that controls this car. Call it macho, sm penis or whatever, I don't care.

It's sort of like standing at the plate with an aluminum bat vs. wooden. You can park a ball easier with the aluminum but no matter how far it goes it doesn't feel as good as a solid hit with the wood. Not to mention the sound.

Use aluminum if you want, but please don't take away my *****.
 

GR8_ASP

Enthusiast
Joined
May 28, 1998
Posts
5,637
Reaction score
1
This whole topic is moot. It will be a regulated requirement. Don't want it speak to your congressman or senator. Or write NHTSA. But I will bet that will result in zero change.

So whether you like it or not ALL cars in the near future will have it, unless you build a kit car. Better that you start telling your representatives that you enjoy a car for what it provides and see if we can keep some fun toys around for a while.
 

j-rho

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Posts
252
Reaction score
0
Location
San Diego, CA
Would be nice if it defaults to off. I like that I can hop in my car and it's ready to go. Nanny-tech wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to press and hold different buttons and do all sorts of 'secret handshakes' just to get the car to behave properly. Or maybe just have two ignition keys, one is a valet-esque key in full granny mode, the other is a race key that turns all that crap off.
 

ViperTony

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Posts
7,554
Reaction score
0
This whole topic is moot. It will be a regulated requirement. Don't want it speak to your congressman or senator. Or write NHTSA. But I will bet that will result in zero change.

So whether you like it or not ALL cars in the near future will have it, unless you build a kit car. Better that you start telling your representatives that you enjoy a car for what it provides and see if we can keep some fun toys around for a while.

I told my state rep about it and he said "What's a traction control?". I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for their help on pretty much anything. As for ESC, DSC, Traction Control, etc. Traction Control cannot fix the stupid.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 15, 2000
Posts
17,923
Reaction score
0
Location
tampa, fl USA
I told my state rep about it and he said "What's a traction control?". I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for their help on pretty much anything. As for ESC, DSC, Traction Control, etc. Traction Control cannot fix the stupid.

You should check with the NHTSA. Those morons think it's gonna save 10,000 lives annually. We only have 30,000 passenger vehicle fatalities annually. The NHTSA thinks the nannies are gonna reduce fatalities by more than 30%. If the nannies do what the NHTSA says they will do the results will have a greater positive impact than seatbelts. Nobody with half a brain would believe that.

But hey, these placebos make us feel good.
 

ViperTony

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Posts
7,554
Reaction score
0
You should check with the NHTSA. Those morons think it's gonna save 10,000 lives annually. We only have 30,000 passenger vehicle fatalities annually. The NHTSA thinks the nannies are gonna reduce fatalities by more than 30%. If the nannies do what the NHTSA says they will do the results will have a greater positive impact than seatbelts. Nobody with half a brain would believe that.

But hey, these placebos make us feel good.

It's mind-boggling. It would be rather interesting, if not sad, if vehicle fatalities go up when nannies are mandated.
 
Top