Look at where the men are standing in the picture above. The front of the car was destroyed. Whatever is under the hood in a Prius moved back into the front seat area along with what looks like most of the front suspension. I would not be surprised if most of the lower half of their bodies were immediately crushed. My bet is seat belts were on. Maybe I am missing a prior thread but I cannot recall a worse crash involving a Viper.
Recent Viper crash in Miami on Route 1
- Thread starter Bobpantax
- Start date
Okay, Bob et al...
I am not a gawker, I see plenty of car accidents/injuries when out on calls...many here due to drinking and driving. As a Viper owner and VCA member, I think my concern - other than those who died obviously - is to understand the cause to determine if the Viper was at fault. Way too often in an accident involving a high performance car, people judge hastily and place blame on the driver of that car. We have often heard things like "oh yeah, it was a Viper...probably driving way over the speed limit".
So, if it is driver's error or carelessness, okay then that is on her as it would be with any driver. If the press or whomever starts blaming her BECAUSE she is driving a Viper, that is different and impacts all of us.
The driver of the GTS near me in Sherman, that was his carelessness and not knowing how to handle his car... unfortunately, he died as well, and that is where our thoughts should be.
I am not a gawker, I see plenty of car accidents/injuries when out on calls...many here due to drinking and driving. As a Viper owner and VCA member, I think my concern - other than those who died obviously - is to understand the cause to determine if the Viper was at fault. Way too often in an accident involving a high performance car, people judge hastily and place blame on the driver of that car. We have often heard things like "oh yeah, it was a Viper...probably driving way over the speed limit".
So, if it is driver's error or carelessness, okay then that is on her as it would be with any driver. If the press or whomever starts blaming her BECAUSE she is driving a Viper, that is different and impacts all of us.
The driver of the GTS near me in Sherman, that was his carelessness and not knowing how to handle his car... unfortunately, he died as well, and that is where our thoughts should be.
I recall the high speed Viper crash with the parked semi-trailor in Arizona 2007. Unfortunately, the news video is long gone but I recall what was left of the burnt wreckage as nothing more than ashes under a trailor.
http://forums.viperclub.org/general-viper-discussion/600452-viper-crash.html
TrackAire
Enthusiast
I wonder if the Viper is in some holding yard and already had its black box downloaded onto a laptop showing speed, throttle position, rpm, etc by one of the insurance investigators and the
lawyers? Whenever there is a death and someone with insurance and or means, they'll probably be a civil lawsuit.
Regarding the Prius, the one thing I don't know is how the battery cells, etc react during a bad accident. Maybe they get "pushed up" during certain forces, thus hurting the passengers even more. I just don't know much about these cars and how they react in accidents.
George
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Fact Correction and additional facts.
There were three people in the Prius. The driver of the Prius survived. The front seat passenger in the Prius died at the scene. The back seat passenger in the Prius died after being removed from the car and transported.
The air bags deployed in case anyone was wondering.
The crash occurred less than 1/4 of one mile south of the car wash.
There were three people in the Prius. The driver of the Prius survived. The front seat passenger in the Prius died at the scene. The back seat passenger in the Prius died after being removed from the car and transported.
The air bags deployed in case anyone was wondering.
The crash occurred less than 1/4 of one mile south of the car wash.
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
Wet tires from the wash and too much heel on the gas????
commandomatt
Enthusiast
Not really sure I want to bring up the footwear issue again since it seems like its steering away from that a bit (which is good).
...but here it goes anyway.
My wife wears heels. Everywhere and all the time. She has for most of her life....and no, they are not kitten heels but 4 and 5" tall. Heres the thing. She does walk, run and drive in heels better than flats. The same I'm sure is true for many women. Its a matter of what you are used to.
So Im sure plenty will argue with the above but the one thing that I keep coming back to is how somebody said it was a fact that she drove away with her heels on. If anyone decides to drive with anything other than what they are wearing when entering the car, they will take their shoes off INSIDE the car, not before they get in...think about it! It would be virtually impossible for somebody to be able to tell whether or not the driver kept their shoes on. The driver may look like they are adjusting their seat (after somebody else took the car through the car wash) all while they are actually slipping their shoes off.
Now maybe the case is that barefoot isnt any better, but the heel story....just doesnt hold up.
I would buy the wet tire, loosing control story though. My Ford truck will cut loose after I come out of the wash. It doesnt take much water to mess with the traction.
Any car...any people...any day. Its tragic and unfortunate.
Matt
...but here it goes anyway.
My wife wears heels. Everywhere and all the time. She has for most of her life....and no, they are not kitten heels but 4 and 5" tall. Heres the thing. She does walk, run and drive in heels better than flats. The same I'm sure is true for many women. Its a matter of what you are used to.
So Im sure plenty will argue with the above but the one thing that I keep coming back to is how somebody said it was a fact that she drove away with her heels on. If anyone decides to drive with anything other than what they are wearing when entering the car, they will take their shoes off INSIDE the car, not before they get in...think about it! It would be virtually impossible for somebody to be able to tell whether or not the driver kept their shoes on. The driver may look like they are adjusting their seat (after somebody else took the car through the car wash) all while they are actually slipping their shoes off.
Now maybe the case is that barefoot isnt any better, but the heel story....just doesnt hold up.
I would buy the wet tire, loosing control story though. My Ford truck will cut loose after I come out of the wash. It doesnt take much water to mess with the traction.
Any car...any people...any day. Its tragic and unfortunate.
Matt
dave6666
Enthusiast
I think the body movements of removing shoes in a car carry a unique signature unlike any other car junk you do. So I argue the virtually impossible for somebody to tell. Especially 3 people - the carwash attendants - that were likely standing looking into a car that the occupant is 3 feet below their eyesight. An occupant, female, wearing heels, driving a Viper... Yeah, I bet they got a good look.
Matt... Does your wife drive your (or hers) Viper wearing her heels?
commandomatt
Enthusiast
Not so sure about the movement but then again, I never really paid attention to it I guess. I know I can slip my shoes off once inside the car and you wouldnt know it.
Viper - She does not want to drive....works for me !
Her Charger - All the time (I know...different car and auto)
Steeda Mustang - Yes, sometimes she does drive it and with heels. Its a stick shift. Got a stiffer clutch than the Viper. Never a problem
Matt
dave6666
Enthusiast
Slithr
Enthusiast
I'm not a lawyer, but I didn't realize being the sole survivor in a horrible Accident, was a criminal act (unless intoxicated)? My condolences to the family and friends of those lost, RIP. I thought it was still possible to be involved in an accident without being a criminal, civil liability .... OK
She did not stay in the car during the car wash. It is a hand wash facility that also does detail work. They place a towel next to the driver's door on the ground before you get back in the car so your shoes are dry. They then usually close your door for you. You then drive away. So in this case they could see whether her shoes were on when she left.
The accident happened so close to the car wash that it is highly possible that the tire tread was still wet. But that is no excuse. No car wash towels the tire tread dry. Common sense dictates that one drive a sufficient distance to dry the tread off. I have met the person involved and her husband. They are good people. But nightmares can happen to good people.
The accident happened so close to the car wash that it is highly possible that the tire tread was still wet. But that is no excuse. No car wash towels the tire tread dry. Common sense dictates that one drive a sufficient distance to dry the tread off. I have met the person involved and her husband. They are good people. But nightmares can happen to good people.
See my post above. All vehicle accidents that result in a death in Miami Dade County are investigated by a vehicular homicide unit. This is standard procedure. They also follow this procedure when the injuries are critical and there is reason to believe that a person may later die. It does not mean the driver will be charged. Also, in this case there were two survivors: The driver of the Prius and the driver of the Viper. The two passengers in the Prius died.
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AFL in NJ
Enthusiast
First off my condolences to the family of the deceased.
I've never driven or walked in high heels; don't have any plans to either...whether for scientific study or not. But can someone explain why is it bad to drive in flip flops or barefoot? I know years ago I got a ticket (back in left-of-centre Canada) for driving without shoes on and I didn't understand the law then.....but forgot about it til now.
When I wear my flip flops I have excellent feel of the pedals and even better then I'm barefoot....I can't think I'd autocross that way, but for short drives it's not painful at all to my feet and I can distinctly feel the difference between the pedals.
Regards,
Aaron
I've never driven or walked in high heels; don't have any plans to either...whether for scientific study or not. But can someone explain why is it bad to drive in flip flops or barefoot? I know years ago I got a ticket (back in left-of-centre Canada) for driving without shoes on and I didn't understand the law then.....but forgot about it til now.
When I wear my flip flops I have excellent feel of the pedals and even better then I'm barefoot....I can't think I'd autocross that way, but for short drives it's not painful at all to my feet and I can distinctly feel the difference between the pedals.
Regards,
Aaron
Slithr
Enthusiast
Is this vehicular homicide investigation used to determine possible intoxication, or is there more to it, I can't think of anything else that might be criminal about an accident
I have found that at times even men will wear a shoe with much too wide a sole ..running shoes ... low cut boots ...simply not apporpiate if your driving a Viper or any other stick... I have 3 daughters all of which were taught to slip out of the choes in question and drive barefoot... personally if I know I am going for a spirited drive I often wear my driving shoes ,,,as there is always a best tool for the job.
as for the crash I lost a Grandson to a Drunk... but have any of you thought not just about the greif but the legal ramifations ... she could be spending a long time in Prison...she would in CA. Vehiclar Homicide... 15-life not that she was drunk doesn't matter car is still a weapon in the eyes of the law... so as a licensed long time road racer ... take a track day and save the speed for the track... anyone that buys a 5-600 HP car should have to mandatory driving course..too many check book racers out there ........Bud
as for the crash I lost a Grandson to a Drunk... but have any of you thought not just about the greif but the legal ramifations ... she could be spending a long time in Prison...she would in CA. Vehiclar Homicide... 15-life not that she was drunk doesn't matter car is still a weapon in the eyes of the law... so as a licensed long time road racer ... take a track day and save the speed for the track... anyone that buys a 5-600 HP car should have to mandatory driving course..too many check book racers out there ........Bud
slthr. anytime the is an accident ... someone was not in complete control of their car...that is criminal.. since the Prius never left it's lane and she did I would assess her to be at fault ....terrible sad story ... been there... she is in deep ca ca
I'm not a lawyer (any can chime in here), but doesn't the driver have to be found negligent in some way before being charged with a crime, even if the accident involves death? Bob has certainly provided lots of information about the accident, but other than (possibly) driving in heels, I haven't heard anything criminal or negligent. If she accelerated too quickly or steered too quickly and the tires were wet (and doing the speed limit), is she still found criminally negligent? Isn't this why they are called "accidents"? There is a difference between legally negligent and foolish or just not thinking (connecting wet tires to car wash to Viper acceleration).
Unless she was found to have liquor in her body, though very sad, I would compare this to an accident caused by a drunk driver! In my book, there is NO excuse for driving after drinking, period!
Unless she was found to have liquor in her body, though very sad, I would compare this to an accident caused by a drunk driver! In my book, there is NO excuse for driving after drinking, period!
lagalaxy13
Viper Owner
Is this vehicular homicide investigation used to determine possible intoxication, or is there more to it, I can't think of anything else that might be criminal about an accident
Kill someone in your car, you'll find out real fast how "criminal" you are.
Guy that killed my dad got a manslaughter charge, he was not drinking, just a idiot not paying attention when he turned.
If she has enough money & no other charges, she'll get off with a slap on the wrist.
A. Definition of the Crime
1. Section 782.071 of the Florida Statutes defines "vehicular homicide" as the killing of a human being by the operation of a motor vehicle by a person in a reckless manner likely to cause the death of, or great bodily harm to, another person.
2. The standard jury instruction on vehicular homicide states that before a
defendant may be found guilty, the jury must find that the defendant operated the vehicle in a reckless manner likely to cause the death of, or great bodily harm to,
another person. The state does not need to prove as an element of vehicular homicide the intent by the defendant to harm or injure the victim or any other person.
B. Proof Necessary
1. The Florida Supreme Court has held that the legislature created the offense of vehicular homicide "to cover the hiatus between section 782.07 manslaughter and the traffic offense of reckless driving"
2. Vehicular homicide cannot be proven without also proving the elements of
reckless driving.
3. However, this does not mean that every fatality is accompanied by and results from conduct warranting a criminal conviction. It must be established beyond and
to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt that the defendant was guilty of the conduct covered by the statute.
4. The line between a traffic infraction and vehicular homicide is hard to draw.
The above is edited material from a book by Revere Publishing.
Here is the actual statute:
782.071 Vehicular homicide.—“Vehicular homicide” is the killing of a human being, or the killing of a viable fetus by any injury to the mother, caused by the operation of a motor vehicle by another in a reckless manner likely to cause the death of, or great bodily harm to, another.
(1) Vehicular homicide is:
(a) A felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(b) A felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, if:
1. At the time of the accident, the person knew, or should have known, that the accident occurred; and
2. The person failed to give information and render aid as required by s. 316.062.
This paragraph does not require that the person knew that the accident resulted in injury or death.
(2) For purposes of this section, a fetus is viable when it becomes capable of meaningful life outside the womb through standard medical measures.
(3) A right of action for civil damages shall exist under s. 768.19, under all circumstances, for all deaths described in this section. (4) In addition to any other punishment, the court may order the person to serve 120 community service hours in a trauma center or hospital that regularly receives victims of vehicle accidents, under the supervision of a registered nurse, an emergency room physician, or an emergency medical technician pursuant to a voluntary community service program operated by the trauma center or hospital.
1. Section 782.071 of the Florida Statutes defines "vehicular homicide" as the killing of a human being by the operation of a motor vehicle by a person in a reckless manner likely to cause the death of, or great bodily harm to, another person.
2. The standard jury instruction on vehicular homicide states that before a
defendant may be found guilty, the jury must find that the defendant operated the vehicle in a reckless manner likely to cause the death of, or great bodily harm to,
another person. The state does not need to prove as an element of vehicular homicide the intent by the defendant to harm or injure the victim or any other person.
B. Proof Necessary
1. The Florida Supreme Court has held that the legislature created the offense of vehicular homicide "to cover the hiatus between section 782.07 manslaughter and the traffic offense of reckless driving"
2. Vehicular homicide cannot be proven without also proving the elements of
reckless driving.
3. However, this does not mean that every fatality is accompanied by and results from conduct warranting a criminal conviction. It must be established beyond and
to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt that the defendant was guilty of the conduct covered by the statute.
4. The line between a traffic infraction and vehicular homicide is hard to draw.
The above is edited material from a book by Revere Publishing.
Here is the actual statute:
782.071 Vehicular homicide.—“Vehicular homicide” is the killing of a human being, or the killing of a viable fetus by any injury to the mother, caused by the operation of a motor vehicle by another in a reckless manner likely to cause the death of, or great bodily harm to, another.
(1) Vehicular homicide is:
(a) A felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(b) A felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, if:
1. At the time of the accident, the person knew, or should have known, that the accident occurred; and
2. The person failed to give information and render aid as required by s. 316.062.
This paragraph does not require that the person knew that the accident resulted in injury or death.
(2) For purposes of this section, a fetus is viable when it becomes capable of meaningful life outside the womb through standard medical measures.
(3) A right of action for civil damages shall exist under s. 768.19, under all circumstances, for all deaths described in this section. (4) In addition to any other punishment, the court may order the person to serve 120 community service hours in a trauma center or hospital that regularly receives victims of vehicle accidents, under the supervision of a registered nurse, an emergency room physician, or an emergency medical technician pursuant to a voluntary community service program operated by the trauma center or hospital.
georgethedog
Enthusiast
All you guys and this criminal stuff is scaring the **** out of me (and probably others)... Also, I have very wide feet EEE, and those damn pedals are too close IMO, but I am used to it once I drive for a couple minutes. What's the difference between driving with my extra extra wide New Balance cross-trainer shoes and high heels? Should I invest in driving shoes? What difference would it make---I still have wide feet and that is not my fault...
Sorry to scare you George but read my post above your post. The law on this point is scary. Members and Enthusiasts should take note. All the more reason to keep spirited driving on a track or at least in a place where NO OTHER CARS OR PEDESTRIANS are present.
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V10 PWRD
Viper Owner
Someone please end this can of worms. Pretty much been decided that wheels and heels were probably wet. This gal will never be the same especially if she reads the thoughts in these posts. Lots of Viper drivers can't handle the raw power no matter how much of a "driver" they think they are.
Too bad this happened but as we all know "$%@! happens" and usually when we least expect it.
Too bad this happened but as we all know "$%@! happens" and usually when we least expect it.
georgethedog
Enthusiast
Should I get driving shoes??? What type??? Anyone have them and like them??? Thanks. 
georgethedog
Enthusiast
Driving shoes = Piloti.
Home Page
They make TONS of different styles.
Rumor has it that Mr. Winkles sleeps in his.
Nothing with wide widths. I will call them. Thanks for the link.
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