0-100-0 in 12.17 seconds and no one is talking about it?

[toddt]

I came to the forum today after reading the MT shootout.

I expected to see what I didn't see in MT--awestruck wonder about how the 0-100-0 record has been shattered--even the mythical records alleged (but never proven) about the 427 Cobra have been shattered!

You guys may not be talking about it right now, but you will.

Listen, a 0-100-0 of 12.17 is going to shake the foundations of the automotive world in Europe, even if most people here seem to be yawning about it. The 571HP Murcialgo only managed a 12.7-something. The Viper was a HALF SECOND FASTER. I'm faint, I'm short of breath, and I can't understand how there aren't a hundred posts on this!

12.17 is unheard of, unimagined, even!

 

[SUN RA KAT]

The only way most cars can do - no, most cars can't do 0-100 in 12.17 seconds, let me rephrase that - the only way a really fast car can do 0-100-0 in 12.17 seconds is to go from 0-100 in 12.16 and then run into a brick wall and then stop in 0.01 seconds, making it 0-100-0 in 12.17 seconds.

I'd only want to do it in a Viper so I can use the car's brakes instead of a brick wall to do the stopping after getting to 100.

 

[Hans Christian]

Toddt,

You are right - YEAH WAY TO GO DODGE !!! STILL THE KING SNAKE BY SEVERAL EART SHATTERING MARGINS - GO GO GO !!!

And what about those breaks 97 feet - Talk about G-force when breaking this sucker.

Now if they would just make a yellow for 2004 ARGH !!!

Can't wait to get mine - Bill where is my yellow 04.

 

[Newport Viper]

Awesome!!!!!

 

[onerareviper]

Toddt,

Let me tell you why no one is ranting about the SRT10 awesome performance...

BECAUSE THE BONEHEADS AT MOTORTREND RUINED THE ARTICLE BY HAVE A FREAK'IN RACE CAR IN THE ARTICLE!!! Straight cut gears, cheater slicks, no crash testing - approval, probably no air bags.... Wake up MT!! This is no street car.

It's really a shame. If you take the Mosler (Race-car) out of the competition, the SRT10 kicked some serious ****. ESPECIALLY considering it's a convertible. There's no denying, PVO did an incredible job setting up this car. Now bring on the total dominating Gen III Coupe.

 

[cstegall]

Toddt,

You are very,very right my friend. I picked up my SRT about a week or so ago and the car is absolutely phenomenal. Once the stats start accumulating in the media and the car develops some recognition(most people don't recognize it as a Viper)...the car will command "awe" in most sections of the automotive industry.

CStegall

 

[doctorbob]

Ditto. I have had my SRT for four weeks and now have 1000 miles on it. I just started pushing the limits on the revs and it is awesome. My Dodge dealership already knows to put a coupe on order for me when availible.

 

[Snakester]

Yes, the 12.17 is an amazing number, and hopefully when there are some other supercar comparisons done by other magazines with production SRT-10 Vipers, it will be seen around the world as an exotic-caliber performer.

One other point about the Mosler Proton is that there WAS a test done by Car and Driver in their SuperTuner shootout which (rightly) made all of the contenders use street tires and normal gas.

The Proton did 0-60 in 4.0 seconds (as opposed to MT's 3.13), and 0-100 in 7.7 sec (compared with 7.1), and did the 1/4 mile in 11.9@127MPH compared with [email protected], so on street tires, the Proton is probably only a couple tenths off from the SRT-10 Viper on it's 0-100-0 performance, which says a great deal about PVO's achievement with the new Viper.

-Dean.

 

[Daffy Duck Viper]

I did not hear about that until you brought the info to the Viper forum.
That's awesome. What will be the next amazing thing the SRT-10 will do?

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[toddt]

BECAUSE THE BONEHEADS AT MOTORTREND RUINED THE ARTICLE BY HAVE A FREAK'IN RACE CAR IN THE ARTICLE!!!

I hate this practice, but they do it every time they do one of these ultimate speed shootouts. I think it's moronic, but not part of any conspiracy.

I just pretend it's not there. The stupid car isn't even street legal--oh, but the maker "promises" it will be soon.

And we all know how far "promises" go in the auto industry.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Didnt ya just love the "Viper Killing" performance they scattered around the article. Makes ya wonder if the editor has an axe to grind...How else could you explain not only letting a non-streetlegal car in, but also letting it do the tests on slicks...That is a slap in the face to the readers....

Notice how the "old GTS on rolling stock" record of 73.5 mph in the slalom was obliterated by a race car on slicks at a little over 74mph ..........I feel none of the records the MT900 broke not be allowed....Hell if thats the case the Comp Coupe should have been there instead of the SRT...Or put all the cars on slicks...The SRT would have broken the 11 sec barrier 0-100-0 with those slicks on.....Has to be the baddest convertible ever made...

 

[Torquemonster]

Some executive from DC must have ***'d in a whole bunch of media editors coffee - 'cause this "putting down Dodge" has been going on for many years... couldn't be the GM advertising dollar... nah but it would be interesting to see who gets wined and dined... and what connections certain friendships have. I'm not thinking consipracy either - just money and "social" alliances - it's so easy to do.

When I first saw the MT test I was so impressed I copied it and sent it to my brother. Thanks for making the point though!

It's the biggest achievement in acceleration and braking out of a mass production car in history. Also notice the lateral g-forces exceed 1g by heaps - as in 1.2g left and right - why did the MT not make a huge thing about that - name one other production car that can even get close to that! It's a huge achievement.

The British and Euro press will be less impressed because they test on varied terrain/bumpier roads and the massive tired car's don't do so well.... which is why the Evo and STI always rate so highly.

The best thing Dodge could do with its upcoming coupe would be to get in bed with Mercedes and develop the coupe at Nurburing track. If they can lap that under 7 minutes 45 seconds - it will be an international legend - that track has everything a good paved road offers from hairpin to sweeper, on camber, off camber, hilly, twisty, fast straights, bumps and undulating surface etc. It is regarded as THE track for car testing. A good time there will shut up the critics.

 

[pitviper]

t-monster: EXACTLY! exploit every resource that you have under the mighty DC umbrella! and with the connections, how about stealing gordon murray and the McLaren crew to help develop the car as well, like you said, and make it be Lord Of The 'Ring!!! it already is for the 'Ring 24 Hours three of the last four years!

pit

 

[Torquemonster]

mmmm interesting concept - you may be interested to know that the forthcoming Veyron is not seen by Maclaren to be "unbeatable".

Gordon Murry recently talked of the Veyron and basically said that it would still get thrashed around a track by the F1 road car over 10 years it's junior. It wasn't a wild claim - but based upon simple physics and dynamics - the Veyron was simply too heavy and had the wrong dynamics to be a winning race car he claimed - although it will certainly be a dynamically fast road car.

He also said that when they developed the F1 road car their mandate was not to build the fastest road registed race car at all. He said that would have been the easiest thing in the world to do - just build a top race car and make it road legal. He said that what they set out to achieve was to build the worlds fastest ROAD CAR - built from the ground up to drive on public roads, and that was an immensely more difficult task.

In 10 years he said, no-one has produced a production car that can beat it for all round performance including acceleration and top speed yet. The Enzo will out brake it and out corner it but he commented that the only gains have been in technology not available to them in the early nineties.... like brakes and better tires. The Enzo will still not better the Maclaren's top speed or 0-100-0 times etc.

Bottom line - if Maclaren were given another shot 10 years down the track from their first attempt - Bugatti and the Enzo would have much to fear in terms of being top dog. It happened before - remember? The EB110 - it was to be the ultimate, but the F1 came out and left the Bugatti so redundant they went broke.

Personally I like the Veyron and think it deserves its time in the sun - it's the ultimate sports Bentley, but it will not be an F1 equivalent in terms of track performance nor will it enjoy the F1's 10 year reign. Test drivers have already described it as simply like driving an Audi TT except with 1000hp.... good but not a new level of braking and handling to match its straight line power.

Back to Viper - we could only speculate how good a Viper would be if redeveloped by Maclaren - but it would be "very good". Their first attempt used an engine probably of similar weight (no specs to check against - but the BMW V12 is no lightweight) - and their first attempt to build a car was not too bad as everyone else still tries to catch up 10 years later.

yeah - I think they could build a Viper to be Lord of the Ring ...if DC cut them a check for $200m and gave them a few V10 SRT10's to play with, I'm sure they'd come to the party

 

[Russ Oasis]

I agree with SnakeBitten. I read some subtle slaps to the Viper in the article as well. I feel that they used the Mosler as a spoiler (it's not street legal and you can't buy one) and then used bias words like "Viper Slayer" and "obliterated." They didn't even include the Viper in the picture at the end of the article where Justin is standing with all the cars. For whatever reason, they wanted to downplay the incredible numbers turned in by the Viper. One final word, we don't know where the SRT would have topped out at...the track was too short to reach its top speed.

 

[Joseph Houss]

...and one other question...

was the top speed test done with top up or top down?

 

[GR8_ASP]

Motor Trend TV showed the Viper being tested with the top up. But they also said it handles well at high speed top up or down, a clear improvement over the previous version.

 

[M. ROD]

Ford's Arizona Proving Ground;

Is that the same track where the GTS hit 192.6mph back in '98?

If it is, can someone explain:

'98 Viper GTS/450 hp => 192.6mph
'03 Lambo Murci/571 hp => 193mph

 

[Snakester]

If it is, can someone explain:

'98 Viper GTS/450 hp => 192.6mph
'03 Lambo Murci/571 hp => 193mph

I'm not sure if it's the same track, but the article said that the speed of the Murcielago, Ferrari 575, and SRT-10 Viper were all track limited.

The combination of the GTS being under-rated (as we know), and the Murcielago's higher AWD drivetrain losses put them at about the same power output, to the road.

The as far as I'm concerned, the Veyron, Enzo, and McLaren are concept/show/racecars.
I seriously doubt that I will EVER see one on the road, just driving around. So their performance is only academic.

-Dean.

 

[SRT10]

Ford's Arizona Proving Ground;

Is that the same track where the GTS hit 192.6mph back in '98?

I must have missed this,where in the article does it talk about a stock GTS going this fast?

 

[GTS Bruce]

Are you serious?Why would anyone bother to read MT except if it were for laughs?Why would anyone purchase it.Maybe for those great comparisons like PU trucks.Of course one will be a 4x2,one will be 4x4,one will be a 3/4 or 1 ton,one will be a dually,one will be diesel powered,one will have a 6 cyl gas motor,one will have 4 doors,there will be one of each bed length used,one will be a work truck stripper,one will have a leather lined bed and they all get compared together as equals???????.............Bruce

 

[Snakester]

I must have missed this,where in the article does it talk about a stock GTS going this fast?

Here are the numbers from the 1998 Motor Trend Test

Top Speed Test

Dodge Viper GTS 192.6 mph
Lotus Esprit V-8 Turbo 179.4 mph
Ferrari F355 F1 177.6 mph
Porsche 911 Carrera 174.8 mph
Chevrolet Corvette 173.9 mph
Aston Martin DB7 163.5 mph
BMW M Roadster 139.7 mph
Panoz AIV Roadster 134.0 mph

0-60 Acceleration

Dodge Viper GTS 4.1 sec
Lotus Esprit V-8 Turbo 4.4 sec
Ferrari 355 F1 4.6 sec
Panoz AIV Roadster 4.6 sec
Chevrolet Corvette 4.8 sec
Porsche 911 Carrera 4.9 sec
BMW M Roadster 5.1 sec
Aston Martin DB7 5.7 sec

Quarter-Mile acceleration

Dodge Viper GTS 12.2 sec/118.6 mph
Lotus Esprit V-8 Turbo 12.8 sec/111.8 mph
Ferrari F355 F1 13.0 sec/109.7 mph
Chevrolet Corvette 13.2 sec/109.3 mph
Panoz AIV Roadster 13.3 sec/101.5 mph
Porsche 911 Carrera 13.4 sec/105.2 mph
BMW M Roadster 13.7 sec/101.4 mph
Aston Martin DB7 14.3 sec/98.1 mph

Dry Surface Max. Lateral G

Dodge Viper GTS 1.01 G
Lotus Esprit V-8 Turbo 0.98 G
Ferrari 355 F1 0.97 G
Panoz AIV Roadster 0.94 G
Chevrolet Corvette 0.93 G
Porsche 911 Carrera 0.92 G
BMW M Roadster 0.91 G
Aston Martin DB7 0.87 G

600 FT Slalom

Dodge Viper GTS 72.5 mph
Ferrari F355 F1 70.8 mph
Lotus Esprit V-8 Turbo 70.0 mph
BMW M Roadster 68.7 mph
Porsche 911 Carrera 68.7 mph
Panoz AIV Roadster 66.9 mph
Aston Martin DB7 66.7 mph
Chevrolet Corvette 66.2 mph

0-100-0 mph

Dodge Viper GTS 8.8/4.9 sec
Lotus Esprit V-8 Turbo 10.4/4.5 sec
Ferrari F355 F1 11.0/4.6 sec
Chevrolet Corvette 11.1/4.6 sec
Porsche 911 Carrera 12.2/4.4 sec
Panoz AIV Roadster 12.9/4.4 sec
BMW M Roadster 13.3/4.5 sec
Aston Martin DB7 14.9/4.5 sec

One-Mile Acceleration

Dodge Viper GTS 30.1 sec/173.3 mph
Lotus Esprit V-8 Turbo 32.1 sec/158.4 mph
Ferrari F355 F1 32.6 sec/154.1 mph
Chevrolet Corvette 32.9 sec/150.4 mph
Porsche 911 Carrera 33.0 sec/150.3 mph
Panoz AIV Roadster 35.1 sec/129.9 mph
Aston Martin DB7 35.2 sec/142.4 mph
BMW M Roadster 35.3 sec/139.3 mph

Road Course

Ferrari 355 F1 38.8 sec
Dodge Viper GTS 38.9 sec
Porsche 911 Carrera 39.3 sec
Chevrolet Corvette 40.0 sec
Lotus Esprit V-8 Turbo 40.0 sec
Panoz AIV Roadster 40.4 sec
BMW M Roadster 40.5 sec
Aston Martin DB7 41.1 sec

60-0-mph Braking

Panoz AIV Roadster 110 ft
Ferrari 355 F1 111 ft
Porsche 911 Carrera 111 ft
BMW M Roadster 115 ft
Chevrolet Corvette 116 ft
Lotus Esprit V-8 Turbo 118 ft
Dodge Viper GTS 122 ft
Aston Martin DB7 125 ft
--------------------------------------------------

I'm actually surprised that MT admitted that the GTS did well at all. Outside of the Mosler racecar with slicks, the GTS and now SRT-10 Vipers have some of the best test numbers of any of the cars that MT tested. But they played that point down considerably, so as to not threaten the pricey European exotics. I don't wonder why the Ferrari 360, Maserati Coupe, or Porsche 911 Carrera weren't in this shootout.

-Dean.

 

[M. ROD]

OH!, and how about:

'98 Vette/345 hp => 173.9mph
'03 ZO6/405 hp => 174mph

?????????????????????????????

 

[Big Medicine]

Gears & drag/ coupe & frc

 

[SnakeBitten]

For you GTS guys notice that the GTS is faster up top than the SRT....It gets to the 1 mile mark in 30.1 secs and 6 mph quicker. And it did all this on mismatched tires that hampered it in the roadcourse..The SRT did 167mph in the same test. Of note also the GTS gets to the 1 mile faster than the Murcilago and is 4mph faster at the same point ......Just imagine the SRT coupe

 

[pitviper]

torquemonster...out of curiosity, where did you hear gordon murray talking about the bugatti? i'd be interested to see all of what he had to say. thanks man!

pit

 

[pitviper]

bump...

 

[SnakeEye]

For you GTS guys notice that the GTS is faster up top than the SRT....It gets to the 1 mile mark in 30.1 secs and 6 mph quicker. And it did all this on mismatched tires that hampered it in the roadcourse..The SRT did 167mph in the same test. Of note also the GTS gets to the 1 mile faster than the Murcilago and is 4mph faster at the same point ......Just imagine the SRT coupe

FWIW, I’m quite certain the SRT-10 was tested with the top down for all tests. This created an additional drag of nearly 15% on the vehicle which is fairly significant (especially for high speed tests). Maybe this was done so the driver could fit in the car with a helmet or it may have been done for political reasons so the Viper didn’t humiliate the competition entirely. Either way, this testing procedure negatively affected the Viper's high speed results in a measurable way so some of the results published have a high probability of being less favorable than they should be.

Another interesting note is why the Molser was even included in the testing at all, since to the best of my knowledge, it isn't certified for driving on public roadways in USA. Very curious indeed.