'08 on the track at Willow Springgs

sun diego

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On Jan 16 I took it to an OTR event. Dan Cragin has installed a roll bar, belts, fire extinguisher, stainless brake lines, shorter shifter, etc. No performance gear was added.

I had arranged for Terry R. to drive it for one session to get some benchmarks for the '08. Terry is a superb club racer, very consistent and safe. He drove his Gen 3 first session and laid down a 1:29. He got in mine and laid down a......1:29. Dan had put a street/track alignment on the car, which is quite appropriate for my use. Terry's Gen 3 has a Quaffe rear end in his car, a very aggressive alignment and every small tweak you can do on his suspension. He would be at least a second or two faster in the '08 if the setups were similar.. I went out with him driving and he showed how, at the limits, my car pushed and his didn't. On most places on the track there wasn't enough track to use the extra power. He loved the car and felt the improvements were vast. He said the engine brought the power with the revs like a sports car, a Ferrarri, instead of like a truck, low down, in the earlier cars. I'm glad my Gen 2 wasn't listening. On his first session in my car I watched him get it sideways after turn 3 a couple of times. That was unlike him and I found out why later.

Manny drove it on the street as well. Manny is a good racer and has owned all three previous generations. He and Terry had the typical reaction "I don't want to drive it in case I like it and have to get one." They both liked it. They both feel they have to get one eventually.

I drove it on the track. I haven't driven Willow for two years. I got out and was driving gently to warm it and me up. At turn 3 I fed it a little throttle up the hill. Oh shoot! On the turns, at neutral throttle at about 3-4k revs in a normal Viper, even my heads/cam Gen2, you get a good hit of power with throttle. This one was giving me way more. I put it sideways on many of the corners. Dan's description of the car had been when you give it gas at revs the two position camshaft shifts and it hits like a turbo. I have never been slower around Willow and I haven't been afraid of a car since my first Viper. This was going to take a lot of getting used to. The next session was a lot better, but I was still way off what I should be. It's going to take seat time in the new car. In '07 I spent about 40 days on the track, half in my Viper, the rest mainly in race prepped V8s. I don't claim to be good, but I do have some experience. The people that are whining for more power for this car are not road course guys. The power is not useable on the street in the lower two gears on stock tires either. It is an amazing car.

Terry also commented that a lot more of these cars are going to end up in the junk yard than the previous cars. The old typical accident was someone hitting the gas a bit early on a corner on a street and getting bit by the low torque, or backing off the gas on a corner. On this car the power buils steadily, instead of flattening. The accident will happen when someone is rolling along at 3k or higher and hits the gas.
 
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rcl4668

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Wow, thanks for the write up. I just received a 2008 that is having rollbar, harnesses etc installed and I hope to do 6-8 auto cross and HPDE events per season. I will not be doing anything till it dries and warms up here a bit more (April-October). Hopefully by then you and others in warmer climates can share your insights on car setup to make these 08s as safe and predictable as possible. On that note, what were you running in terms of tire pressures and was the handling neutral (power oversteer aside)? Thanks.

/Rich
 

Vic

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Very good write up! Terry's the best Viper driver I have ever had the honor of riding with! Great instructor!

Wonder what kind of time it can turn on the N'Ring? Thats the gold standard!

Wonder if the ~1000 pounds downforce of the ACR will keep it planted? My assh*le always twitched like a bunny's nose, trying to go flat-out through Turn 8 in my GTS! (Never got there)

Got any pics of your new beast?
 
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sun diego

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, what were you running in terms of tire pressures and was the handling neutral (power oversteer aside)? Thanks.

/Rich

29 1/2 cold, 35 hot. It was a cool day, so the start pressure was a tad higher than usual.

By push, I meant understeer . Sorry if that wasn't clear. Or as Terry said " Ze car poooshes all ze way around ze track".
 
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Vipermann

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Great post! Thanks for the insight on the on-track performance -- a much needed (no bench-racing, no bs) perspective.

... (much better than the junior clap that gets passed around in the alley.)
 

Dan Cragin

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Thanks for the follow-up on the track day event David.Being able to dyno test and evaluate your car was a treat, I cannot thank you enough. It seems this new model has plenty of power for the track. It would be interesting to see what the Gen 4 car would behave like with a track only alignment, better suspension (shocks and springs), slicks and a real torque sensing differential. I look forward to experimenting with this at the Buttonwillow event in February.

Dan Cragin
DC Performance
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rcl4668

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29 1/2 cold, 35 hot. It was a cool day, so the start pressure was a tad higher than usual.

By push, I meant understeer . Sorry if that wasn't clear. Or as Terry said " Ze car poooshes all ze way around ze track".

sun diego --

Thanks! I ran 30 psi rear and 34 psi front cold on my 2006 for track days. I wonder if starting with this setup makes sense in order to dial out some understeer on the 2008s.

/Rich
 

Bugeater

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"I put it sideways on many of the corners. Dan's description of the car had been when you give it gas at revs the two position camshaft shifts and it hits like a turbo..."

So it has characteristics of a VTEC engine? Thats not good in highspeed sweepers. At what speed are you at (approx.) in 3rd when this event happens?
 

Catwood

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Being behind him coming off turn 2 and looking at my Data from my G2x I'd say about 105. Actually I'm at 105...he's pulling away....in a drift. Wish I'd have put in my video that day.
 
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sun diego

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Thanks Cat, but that was Terry. I was probably doing 90, going "Oh crap!" as the power hit.

Yup, an 8.4 liter VTECH. It will be a handful.
 

Catwood

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Did Terry run a data logger in your car. I'd be interested in looking at the first session if he did. My best lap that day was a :32.05 which I think is by best yet. We ran it in Paul's car one session. His max brake force exceeds mine by about .07G. My laterial Gs are .2-.3 higher and my peak speeds are about 10MPH higher. It's interesting to review the differences.
 

Vic

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Did Terry run a data logger in your car. I'd be interested in looking at the first session if he did. My best lap that day was a :32.05 which I think is by best yet. We ran it in Paul's car one session. His max brake force exceeds mine by about .07G. My laterial Gs are .2-.3 higher and my peak speeds are about 10MPH higher. It's interesting to review the differences.

32! Nice....I was turning very consistent 36s, when my allowance ran out! Its a rich mans hobby!
 

Brad04Mamba

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32! Nice....I was turning very consistent 36s, when my allowance ran out! Its a rich mans hobby!

No kidding. Carl, you are spending way too much time at the track. Two years ago I was ahead of Carl, now he would be lapping me by the end of a session.

Are you still sure you don't want that ACR
 
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sun diego

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Cat, he ran a data logger during his session in my car. Your .2-.3 Gs might be the slicks on your car. Your speed is from a good exit and big cojones.

I'll bet Terry's time was faster in the stock '08 than anyone who tested with the magazines and engineers in the ACR.

I'll be at Viper days at Buttonwillow.

Brad, there's no question he WANTS the ACR.
 

02 Graphite GTS

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I hope SunDiego doesn't mind....
Here are a couple of pictures I took of his car at Carlsbad.

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SoCal Rebell

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Mr. sun diego was nice enough to stop by my office on the way back from the track, he offered to let me keep the car for a day but I passed. I did take it for a test drive in Santa Clarita and sun diego's last words were "drive it like you stole it" so I did in an industrial area went 0-90 in about 6 seconds, then the red light come on behind me :(

Sheriff got out and said I was doing 85 in a 35, I did not have my license, no registration and it wasn't my car. The Deputy asked me about the car stroked it like his girlfriend and said "well if I hadda car like this I'd get on it if I had the chance" and let me go with a warning :2tu:

Hopefully I will have an '08 ACR report at Willow Springs in March :headbang:
 

Catwood

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No kidding. Carl, you are spending way too much time at the track. Two years ago I was ahead of Carl, now he would be lapping me by the end of a session.

Are you still sure you don't want that ACR

Want and afford don't seem to match up.......dang.

I'll be taking a little break from the track now :dunno:
 

Disturbed

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"...better suspension (shocks and springs), slicks and a real torque sensing differential..."

Dan Cragin
DC Performance
310-841-6996

Dan, From everything that was said before the improvments on the suspension and rear diff were very welcome new parts, over the GENII/III stuff.
 
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