1st oil change on the RT - story

FastZilla

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OK. I've finally drank enough and calmed down enough to share this really funny story with you. I did the 1st oil change on the new to me `94 RT. No problem - typical oil change, right? I did not move the car yesterday because I was installing/fabricating a PS fluid filter & did not have the fittings I wound up needing to finish. So got the PS filter knocked out this evening. Go the car off the jack stands and pulled it into the driveway. Left it idling to circulate the PS fluid & top off the reservoir. Got that taken care of then went to the back of the car by the garage to put the ATF up and turned around to walk back to the car. As I'm walking up I notice a flood of oil coming from under the car. I run and shut it off then inspect. Just as I had thought initially it appears the oil filter seal has failed - in a big way. The filter was tight - I checked. I'm using a Mobile 1 M1-204 and I did lube the gasket then hand tight, ok it's PFT. None the less It looks like the Valdez parked in my driveway - now covered with oil absorb. Merry x-mas I guess. Looks like a good 3+ qts got out. I got oil everywhere!!!!

This is a 1st for me, literally over 1k oil changes under my belt and voila... I'll investigate tomorrow. I'm sure it's gasket related but we'll see.

Figured you all would get a laugh out of this too. Never mind the $30 in oil in my driveway & garage floor. Sometimes you don't get nuthin for free!
 

martyb

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Eddie,
Did the old filter gasket come off with the old filter? I did this once a long time ago on my vette, same story, and the old gasket stuck on the pump, thus I had two gaskets smashed together which doesn't work well! At least you caught it early, no harm other than the mess on the ground! Let me know when you get it on the dyno

martyb
 

got one

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Eddie,
Did the old filter gasket come off with the old filter? I did this once a long time ago on my vette, same story, and the old gasket stuck on the pump, thus I had two gaskets smashed together which doesn't work well! At least you caught it early, no harm other than the mess on the ground! Let me know when you get it on the dyno

martyb

Had that happen to me on the RT a while back. I can show you part of the stain in the driveway that is stil left after 6 quarts ran out! ya, I wasn't the happiest camper, but I got it cleaned up before my better half got home...phew.
 
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FastZilla

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The old gasket came off with the old filter.

The PS filter is for no other reason than to satisfy me. I figure, pump, fluid, gears - needs a filter. Never had a PS pump fail on me - maybe this is why? I'm just weird in this way.

I really do appreciate knowing I'm not the only one! You really feel like a dope when this happens!
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Have you had PS filters before? Where do you place them and what is the filter media? Ever see the used filter? The high pressure side can be over 1000 psi and the low pressure side is designed for gravity drain, I thought.

I also don't know for sure, but seems like one of the fittings attaching a hose to somewhere includes a screen filter. Maybe.
 
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FastZilla

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Swapped the filter today. The gasket was split - don't know how. Took it to the parts store and they gave me a new one. They wouldn't spring for the 2 gal of Mobile 1 it puked on my driveway.

As for the PS filter. I have used/install PS filters on almost every car I have owned. You install them on the return which might reach 10 PSI - don't believe me, try this, you can almost pinch the return line closed with your fingers while the engine is running - If the pressure was more than about 30 psi...well, your not that strong. Fuel filters MUST operate with normal pressures in excess of 60psi, same for the 3/8" fuel line. Is the filter media in a fuel filter too fine for 7wt ATF - have you ever looked at the 10-20 Micron filters in an automatic? Same micron rating as a fuel filter.

The filter can be mounted almost anywhere - above or below the reservoir. Once the pump stops running and the rack is stationary the fluid becomes "locked" in position - don't believe me? open the reservoir cap when the engine is running & when it's not, fluid level is exactly where it needs to be. Think about it - you have simply added fluid to the system in a "closed environment. That means that if fluid was to "gravity" drain from the filter into the reservoir then it would have to **** it thru the rack which would in turn **** it our of the reservoir - siphon effect. Return line is far below the "fill" level of the reservoir so this will work every time. If the return was at the top, say the cap, then yes, it could drain back, but not likely because again it is a closed circuit and would have to **** it from the rack/reservoir. Now if you have an air leak then all bets are off - but then you'd have bigger problems, right. I usually mount them above the reservoir cap because I learned the hard way before when changing filter elements that if it is below the reservoir once you open the line you get the contents of the reservoir all at once all over everything - (I used to just use a $3 GM 3/8" barb fuel filter, biggest one I could find hanging on the parts store wall, in my broke days). With them mounted above the reservoir fill you can simply crack the hose on the rack side (the input) and the fluid in the filter will drain into the reservoir (fluid will NOT drain back thru the rack)and you can now change the filter without getting your hands and engine compartment dirty. I mounted it to the fender liner (see photos) using a electrical conduit clamp with rubber isolation, One 5/8" & one 3/4" clamp (Home Depot), and I drill holed in the fender liner and use phillips head "screw in/out" push-pins that you can buy at Fastenal for about $6 for a box of 25 - these are what your entire car is put together with from the factory. Simple 3/8" fuel line and a refill of the reservoir with Mobile1 Synthetic ATF and that's it.

Does the filter actually do anything? Yes, you will be surprised the dirt, literally dirt and some metal shavings you will find in the filter after the initial install. Once you replace the filter for the 1st time it will never get dirty again (if you are a typical Viper owner - for the rest of the public, you may have to change it more than once). Most folks never change their PS fluid and never wipe the reservoir cap off before opening so all that dirt falls in the reservoir, mixes with the 7wt ATF and circulates over and over for years - a true testament to the construction of the PS pumps!

I realize I'm unorthodoxed but this works for me. I use the glass see-thru style with the replaceable elements (Filter is $10, 3 elements is $10). The input/output is a 1/8" FIP but you will need to convert it to a 1/4" MIP because I could NOT find a 3/8" barb with a 1/8" IP (Iron Pipe) thread. Look at the inside diameters of the 3/8" barb, then the 1/8" IP fittings and you will see the "hole" is the same size - this is another place where you can try the "squeeze the line" while running technique but do it on the input side of the filter (rack side) this time and if you can compress the line with your fingers - you're good!

I used a 1/8" MIP to 1/8" FIP "elbow" on both sides of the filter - then a 1/8" MIP "Close" (******) - then a 1/8" FIP to 1/4" FIP "reducer" - then a 1/4" MIP w/3/8" barb. All brass. Plastic will work but....you take the chance!

The only thing I do not like about my install is that the worm gear style hose clamp I used on the input side of the filter is toughing the radiator hose. I will insulate the connection this week. I was in a hurry and did not paint my brass fittings black - painting is your personal preference only. Notice the way the mounting clamps are on different planes - this will prevent up & down movement as well as fore/aft movement with 2 clamps. Don't make your bend radius too tight on the entry to the reservoir - it's about a 220 degree loop. A good rule of thumb for bend radius is NO MORE than 3 time the diameter of the hose/wire/conduit/etc. This would be about 1" radius on 3/8" tubing or 2" on the diameter.

Probably way more than you ever wanted to know. This also sets you pr for a PS cooler in series if you want. Now draining & changing your PS fluid is cake!

Sorry for the blurry one - it's late. If any of you are that interrested I'll get you more photos and details.

PS:
Marty,
Painted that collection bottle & mount & swapped the "T" to a brass one, painted black;) (DupiColor Chrysler Red engine paint - it's shiny!)
 
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FastZilla

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Tom,
I grew on a ranch and was big into 4WD, but with no money. Had to make a ton of parts ;)

The high side of the PS pumps actually can get inthe 1300-1500 range. MileMarker winches has made an entire off-road hydraulic winch line that utilizes the PS pump's "overhead" (volume) to operate (winches in the 12k pound range). You essentially have a winch that so long as your engine is running you can winch, no batteries to go dead.

I know you know about this stuff - I put it in for others info.

Have you had PS filters before? Where do you place them and what is the filter media? Ever see the used filter? The high pressure side can be over 1000 psi and the low pressure side is designed for gravity drain, I thought.

I also don't know for sure, but seems like one of the fittings attaching a hose to somewhere includes a screen filter. Maybe.
 

martyb

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Swapped the filter today. The gasket was split - don't know how. Took it to the parts store and they gave me a new one. They wouldn't spring for the 2 gal of Mobile 1 it puked on my driveway.

As for the PS filter. I have used/install PS filters on almost every car I have owned. You install them on the return which might reach 10 PSI - don't believe me, try this, you can almost pinch the return line closed with your fingers while the engine is running - If the pressure was more than about 30 psi...well, your not that strong. Fuel filters MUST operate with normal pressures in excess of 60psi, same for the 3/8" fuel line. Is the filter media in a fuel filter too fine for 7wt ATF - have you ever looked at the 10-20 Micron filters in an automatic? Same micron rating as a fuel filter.

The filter can be mounted almost anywhere - above or below the reservoir. Once the pump stops running and the rack is stationary the fluid becomes "locked" in position - don't believe me? open the reservoir cap when the engine is running & when it's not, fluid level is exactly where it needs to be. Think about it - you have simply added fluid to the system in a "closed environment. That means that if fluid was to "gravity" drain from the filter into the reservoir then it would have to **** it thru the rack which would in turn **** it our of the reservoir - siphon effect. Return line is far below the "fill" level of the reservoir so this will work every time. If the return was at the top, say the cap, then yes, it could drain back, but not likely because again it is a closed circuit and would have to **** it from the rack/reservoir. Now if you have an air leak then all bets are off - but then you'd have bigger problems, right. I usually mount them above the reservoir cap because I learned the hard way before when changing filter elements that if it is below the reservoir once you open the line you get the contents of the reservoir all at once all over everything - (I used to just use a $3 GM 3/8" barb fuel filter, biggest one I could find hanging on the parts store wall, in my broke days). With them mounted above the reservoir fill you can simply crack the hose on the rack side (the input) and the fluid in the filter will drain into the reservoir (fluid will NOT drain back thru the rack)and you can now change the filter without getting your hands and engine compartment dirty. I mounted it to the fender liner (see photos) using a electrical conduit clamp with rubber isolation, One 5/8" & one 3/4" clamp (Home Depot), and I drill holed in the fender liner and use phillips head "screw in/out" push-pins that you can buy at Fastenal for about $6 for a box of 25 - these are what your entire car is put together with from the factory. Simple 3/8" fuel line and a refill of the reservoir with Mobile1 Synthetic ATF and that's it.

Does the filter actually do anything? Yes, you will be surprised the dirt, literally dirt and some metal shavings you will find in the filter after the initial install. Once you replace the filter for the 1st time it will never get dirty again (if you are a typical Viper owner - for the rest of the public, you may have to change it more than once). Most folks never change their PS fluid and never wipe the reservoir cap off before opening so all that dirt falls in the reservoir, mixes with the 7wt ATF and circulates over and over for years - a true testament to the construction of the PS pumps!

I realize I'm unorthodoxed but this works for me. I use the glass see-thru style with the replaceable elements (Filter is $10, 3 elements is $10). The input/output is a 1/8" FIP but you will need to convert it to a 1/4" MIP because I could NOT find a 3/8" barb with a 1/8" IP (Iron Pipe) thread. Look at the inside diameters of the 3/8" barb, then the 1/8" IP fittings and you will see the "hole" is the same size - this is another place where you can try the "squeeze the line" while running technique but do it on the input side of the filter (rack side) this time and if you can compress the line with your fingers - you're good!

I used a 1/8" MIP to 1/8" FIP "elbow" on both sides of the filter - then a 1/8" MIP "Close" (******) - then a 1/8" FIP to 1/4" FIP "reducer" - then a 1/4" MIP w/3/8" barb. All brass. Plastic will work but....you take the chance!

The only thing I do not like about my install is that the worm gear style hose clamp I used on the input side of the filter is toughing the radiator hose. I will insulate the connection this week. I was in a hurry and did not paint my brass fittings black - painting is your personal preference only. Notice the way the mounting clamps are on different planes - this will prevent up & down movement as well as fore/aft movement with 2 clamps. Don't make your bend radius too tight on the entry to the reservoir - it's about a 220 degree loop. A good rule of thumb for bend radius is NO MORE than 3 time the diameter of the hose/wire/conduit/etc. This would be about 1" radius on 3/8" tubing or 2" on the diameter.

Probably way more than you ever wanted to know. This also sets you pr for a PS cooler in series if you want. Now draining & changing your PS fluid is cake!

Sorry for the blurry one - it's late. If any of you are that interrested I'll get you more photos and details.

PS:
Marty,
Painted that collection bottle & mount & swapped the "T" to a brass one, painted black;) (DupiColor Chrysler Red engine paint - it's shiny!)

Looking good Eddie, nice job and write up!! I should have used a brass "T" when I put that system together.
 

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