2008 viper....deposits?
- Thread starter evomind
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Scott_in_FL
Viper Owner
I'm sure all of the sponser dealers will accept your deposit. Expect to begin at MSRP of $95-100k (up $5-10k from current model) or roughly $20k more than what you can buy the current model for.
Unless you simply have to have an '08 model, I don't see paying $20k for 100hp.
Unless you simply have to have an '08 model, I don't see paying $20k for 100hp.
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
the price better be at or LOWER than the current models sticker. Additionally i would tell you never pay over sticker price for a car that is still in production.
No way that car is coming in below 91k. Not going to happen. I have heard some intelligent guesses...with some people in the know....and the # will be over 95k. And some will pay over sticker...and they won't care. Me...I will not pay over sticker...but I will get one.
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
i meant more like under $85
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
invoice(not sticker) price was/is a lot lower than that.
'03 sticker was $83,795 including ($3k gas guzzler),
dealer invoice $76,659 (plus sales tax and reg).
sticker may be $91 with optional stripes and an optional wheel im guessing that invoice is still under under $82k
'03 sticker was $83,795 including ($3k gas guzzler),
dealer invoice $76,659 (plus sales tax and reg).
sticker may be $91 with optional stripes and an optional wheel im guessing that invoice is still under under $82k
Wasn't talking about an'03. Invoice on 06 Coupe is 83781...with stripes. 80781 without stripes. Srt 79331. Sticker on Striped Coupe 91k, without stripes 88k...SRT about 86.5 I believe. Why are you looking at '03 prices? Just curious.
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
using the number from my purchase in '03,just using them as a reference point. if the '06 srt=vert is $86 (assuming that includes gas guzzler tax) the price has only gone up acouple of thousand $. I had no idea that he coupes were that much more/or more at all(and stipes are an option on both now). My opinions on the future pricing of the '08 car is that i believe the market(buyers) have told DCX that the car is priced too high. Look a the discounts available on the current car, that have basically been the through the life of the current SRT-verts. And knowing what the closest comptetion is priced(ZO6, ihave also heard rumors that a drop top version of the Z may be on the way). The current coupe is also an anomoly to me not many coupe versions of cars are heavier than their drop top siblings(srt-c is 70lbs heavier than the drop top srt). I also think that when the vette bluedevil/ss/stingray comes out at $100k that the viper much to may dismay could end up being second fiddle again while price will(could) only be a little less or even if your right.
some good points...
the h.p. on the 08 will probably be at least 100 more at the wheels. some info ive read has it rated CONSERVATIVELY at 650 at the crank.
keeping that in mind, im sure dodge will tweak other aspects like gearing, maybe suspension and the driveline will have to be strengthened.
so, assuming the above is true, its worth it to me to pay an extra 20k for all that and have a warranty.
what would it cost to similarly upgrade the current model?
whether or not ill actually be able to afford it remains to be seen.
the h.p. on the 08 will probably be at least 100 more at the wheels. some info ive read has it rated CONSERVATIVELY at 650 at the crank.
keeping that in mind, im sure dodge will tweak other aspects like gearing, maybe suspension and the driveline will have to be strengthened.
so, assuming the above is true, its worth it to me to pay an extra 20k for all that and have a warranty.
what would it cost to similarly upgrade the current model?
whether or not ill actually be able to afford it remains to be seen.
Scott_in_FL
Viper Owner
Blue Devil is a pure halo car. Given the current Z06 MSRP is now $75k, the BD is sure to be at least as significant a jump in price as the difference between base C6 and Z06 ($30k). So, let's assume $110k MSRP, and with very limited production, you won't touch one initially for under $150k (remember, this car will compete directly with FGT). That leaves DC plenty of room to price a 600-650hp car that will beat a Z06, but not a BD.
On that point, the car is going to be 600, not 650hp. Why? Because it does not need 650 to beat the Z06 (it's target). DC will not build this current car to beat the BD (and it couldn't with 650hp anyway). That will be left for a special edition or for Gen IV.
I think $100k is going to be the sweet spot for the '08. The extra $25k over the Z06 gets you a better performing car (that may beat an FGT) and one that is far more exclusive. Plus, it's realistically going to be roughly $30-50k less than what you will be able to get a BD for (the next step up).
On that point, the car is going to be 600, not 650hp. Why? Because it does not need 650 to beat the Z06 (it's target). DC will not build this current car to beat the BD (and it couldn't with 650hp anyway). That will be left for a special edition or for Gen IV.
I think $100k is going to be the sweet spot for the '08. The extra $25k over the Z06 gets you a better performing car (that may beat an FGT) and one that is far more exclusive. Plus, it's realistically going to be roughly $30-50k less than what you will be able to get a BD for (the next step up).
lankhoss
Enthusiast
I am confused. Is the "Diamondback" going to be the name of the 2008 Viper, or a special edition Viper that is coming out next year? Also, are they reducing the weight at all?
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
Diamondback was/is a concept car that was created by ASC & McLaren, may have some hints of the the next car(it may not). The current Z06 already beats, or ties, the FGT in every way except top speed. The BlueDevil/SS is rumored to be $100k, the mark up over and above sticker for someone to be first on the block is not relevant, the time and energy that have gone into the development will not be wasted on only 1 or even 2 yrs(and more than likely made till the C7 comes out) of production if you want want eventually you will get one at or below sticker. I know of at least one dealership that i could get a Ford GT from right NOW with no problem at $10,000 BELOW sticker price. The new Viper at $100k+ in my mind is getting to be priced way too high above the average Dodge product. It has been proved in quite a few cars that when a car,even a halo car is priced too high above the average product in a manufacturers line the cars do not sell all that well. With examples being the Carrera GT, MB SLR, VW Phaeton, Ford GT. Yes eventually they all get sold i do know of a few Carrera GT's that could be had at one point for $40k off the sticker price. Dealers dont want to sit too long with a $400k nut on their show rooms for too long!
Scott_in_FL
Viper Owner
Blue Devil at or below sticker??? You will be waiting a long while. Have you tracked Z06 pricing?
The Viper will not be overpriced at $100k because it will be a Z06 and probably an FGT ******. How is that not worth the price of admission? The Viper is a world class car it just needs the add'l 100hp, the right gearing, and a real differential. That's it.
The market for high end sports cars is, to a large degree, price inelastic. That means that pricing does not really influence demand. If a portion of the segment is making their choice based on price, it is a very small portion. Most Viper owners can afford the car and will buy it regardless of whether it is $80k or $100k, and probably even higher. It's not like these are minivans and the consumer will be swayed because of a $10-20k price swing.
The reason the Viper is not selling currently is not because of its price. The car is marketed as the most raw, no-frills, ass-kicking sportscar out there. Problem is that GM brought out a much more convenient and comfortable car that kicks its ass. The Viper completely lost its only reason for being. No flames, I own one.
The way DC sells the next version is to get back to its roots as much as possible. Although the horsepower race will peter out soon (reliable horsepower for the street) and can never be won for too long these days, Viper can still be that outrageously styled, difficult to live with, pure racer that made us love it originally. Give us a car that looks like the concept coupe, really limit production (800-1000 cars/year), jack up the price ($130k), and you're done. This is the FGT formula, btw. They would sell every single one.
The Viper will not be overpriced at $100k because it will be a Z06 and probably an FGT ******. How is that not worth the price of admission? The Viper is a world class car it just needs the add'l 100hp, the right gearing, and a real differential. That's it.
The market for high end sports cars is, to a large degree, price inelastic. That means that pricing does not really influence demand. If a portion of the segment is making their choice based on price, it is a very small portion. Most Viper owners can afford the car and will buy it regardless of whether it is $80k or $100k, and probably even higher. It's not like these are minivans and the consumer will be swayed because of a $10-20k price swing.
The reason the Viper is not selling currently is not because of its price. The car is marketed as the most raw, no-frills, ass-kicking sportscar out there. Problem is that GM brought out a much more convenient and comfortable car that kicks its ass. The Viper completely lost its only reason for being. No flames, I own one.
The way DC sells the next version is to get back to its roots as much as possible. Although the horsepower race will peter out soon (reliable horsepower for the street) and can never be won for too long these days, Viper can still be that outrageously styled, difficult to live with, pure racer that made us love it originally. Give us a car that looks like the concept coupe, really limit production (800-1000 cars/year), jack up the price ($130k), and you're done. This is the FGT formula, btw. They would sell every single one.
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
Zo6 pricing may be stable now. Wait till well into the 2nd or 3rd year of production and like most other mass produced cars their prices will come down, and i think rather quickly. As well as when used ones start to enter the market, it happens with just about every car. Especially as you mention the next better thing is usually right around the corner
Sylvan SRT
Not trying to hijack the thread..but can't let this go.
PLEASE...show me where you got this info...and don't show me a video from a Z06 guy. Every Mag test....FGT faster in EVERY one... 0-60...0-100---1320----mile---top speed. Where did you get this eye opening info?? Thanks, A.J.
Here is the most recent test BTW.....the R and T superpowers showdown. I can show you many others with similar results.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=3775
In this test..FGT was 11.7 to 12.2 in the 1320...3.7 to 4.1 0-60...and top end, forget about it. Now I dont live and die by tests...I happen to own both cars...but show me why you made your statement?
Not trying to hijack the thread..but can't let this go.
PLEASE...show me where you got this info...and don't show me a video from a Z06 guy.
Every Mag test....FGT faster in EVERY one... 0-60...0-100---1320----mile---top speed. Where did you get this eye opening info?? Thanks, A.J. Here is the most recent test BTW.....the R and T superpowers showdown. I can show you many others with similar results.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=3775
In this test..FGT was 11.7 to 12.2 in the 1320...3.7 to 4.1 0-60...and top end, forget about it. Now I dont live and die by tests...I happen to own both cars...but show me why you made your statement?
well pricing is very important for any product in any segment. price the new viper too high and prospective buyers start looking elsewhere. look how many fgt's are on ebay. yes, they will sell but when and for how much? im sure many ppl who can afford a fgt have considered a lambo or a ferrari. granted, they are different markets and all but still. you have to sell to more than just your diehards.
i think the 08 will base for around 95k. its going to be tough to sell a dodge, any dodge for more than 100k. most of the folks in that demographic tend to be very "label conscience." like i cant figure out why folks want to pay what they do for 911's when they can buy a z for much less money. why? different market.
dont u think chevy would have liked to get 75k for the 06 z? sure, but they probably didnt know at the time folks would have paid that for a chevy. now they know folks would.
the price of the z will come down as chevy intends to ramp up production.
i also think the used 06 viper coupes will be had for cheap next spring with folks looking to upgrade.
i suppose we will know more in a few weeks.....
i think the 08 will base for around 95k. its going to be tough to sell a dodge, any dodge for more than 100k. most of the folks in that demographic tend to be very "label conscience." like i cant figure out why folks want to pay what they do for 911's when they can buy a z for much less money. why? different market.
dont u think chevy would have liked to get 75k for the 06 z? sure, but they probably didnt know at the time folks would have paid that for a chevy. now they know folks would.
the price of the z will come down as chevy intends to ramp up production.
i also think the used 06 viper coupes will be had for cheap next spring with folks looking to upgrade.
i suppose we will know more in a few weeks.....
Good Sunday Viper persons. I think that what we will see in the future and the cost of same will be dictated by a number of factors. Right now it is probable that DC, Ford and General Motors are all again revisiting their performance programs to see what does and does not make sense in the current market place. For those of you who do not follow S&P corporate long term debt ratings, Toyata's is AAA, the highest investment grade rating. DC's, as of August 4, was BBB, still investment grade, with a positive outlook. Ford's is currently B+, the fourth highest junk bond rating, with a possible downgrade pending. (The new CEO just announced did not wow the credit markets.) General Motors has a rating of B, the fifth highest junk bond rating. Those who wait for future vehicles may wake up one morning and find out that the horsepower race is over and be SOL. Those with Zvettes and GT's - don't be surprised if suddenly the interpretation of warranty claims becomes much stricter. Maybe I am being too conservative, but I would be very hesitant to purchase a higher priced, limited production vehicle from a company whose long term debt rating is on the lower side of junk. As for the refreshed 2008 Viper, I would be surprised if there is any significant price increase. It is clear from the public data released by DC that they are going in the direction of allowing individual modification and customization by or from the dealer, e.g., note the recent posts and photos regarding Prefix prepared Vipers and the modded Copperhead brochure that is passed out at SRT TRack Experience events. I think that because of this, it is likely that any HP increase for the stock Viper will not be more than 50HP. It is more likely that DC will expand the number of available performance enhancing options which can be ordered at the time of purchase and covered under warranty. This is an obvious course of conduct and a better, less expensive, business model than producing a vehicle with monster power as the base Viper. The current HP is more than enough for most Viper owners. Just an educated guess on my part.
Bob..the 600+ HP motor is a reality...as is the price of 95k+. Enjoyed your write-up...but the '08 Viper has been put to bed. The car will be hitting the streets 1st quarter of '07....with 600+ ponies and at least a 95K price. And if it is 95k..that is only 3k more than the list on a striped '06 Coupe. I would expect nice discounts on the '08 as well...after the BUZZ wears off.
"Bob..the 600+ HP motor is a reality...as is the price of 95k+. Enjoyed your write-up...but the '08 Viper has been put to bed. The car will be hitting the streets 1st quarter of '07....with 600+ ponies and at least a 95K price."
Interesting. What is the source of your data regarding price and engine output? I do not consider Allpar data to be reliable on this subject.
Interesting. What is the source of your data regarding price and engine output? I do not consider Allpar data to be reliable on this subject.
Scott_in_FL
Viper Owner
There is 100hp in the current block without an issue. It's an overbore/stroke, cam, and more efficient intake/exhaust. On a side note, from my roadracing of motorcycles, I am surprised the car mfgs have yet to use the servo-actuated flapper valve in the exhaust to get the car past emissions. It opens from partially closed at low rpms to full open just past the rpm level that the EPA tests. All top end sportbike mfgs use it now and it is a cheat way to get a very efficient exhaust through emissions certification.
Anyway, just because Chevy comes out and prices the Z06 below the Viper does not mean that DC or Ford will never be able to sell another car at a higher price. They just need to create the demand.
How do you do that? How about 600hp, 3.45 gears, diff swap, 3200lbs, and 0-60 and 1/4 mile times that beat the Z06 and FGT? And make it look outrageous, damnit!
What could touch it? Yeah, yeah, the Blue Devil, but you're not going to put one in your garage for $100k. And then, if your neighbor has a BD and you need to stomp him, put on the S/C and call it a day. The Viper will still be the best platform for modifications. You simply can't beat the giant displacement and normally aspirated stock engine.
Anyway, just because Chevy comes out and prices the Z06 below the Viper does not mean that DC or Ford will never be able to sell another car at a higher price. They just need to create the demand.
How do you do that? How about 600hp, 3.45 gears, diff swap, 3200lbs, and 0-60 and 1/4 mile times that beat the Z06 and FGT? And make it look outrageous, damnit!
What could touch it? Yeah, yeah, the Blue Devil, but you're not going to put one in your garage for $100k. And then, if your neighbor has a BD and you need to stomp him, put on the S/C and call it a day. The Viper will still be the best platform for modifications. You simply can't beat the giant displacement and normally aspirated stock engine.
i agree scott but to do that with the current model requires a vast financial undertaking.
depending on how the next 5 months go ill either get an 06 and s/c or go for an 08.
the z is a great car, i drove it, but it looks too much like a regular c6 for me to give up my lotus for.
depending on how the next 5 months go ill either get an 06 and s/c or go for an 08.
the z is a great car, i drove it, but it looks too much like a regular c6 for me to give up my lotus for.
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
in the same R & T the srt-10 vert and the zo6 vette both posted better road course times than the Ford gt(given not by much), yes the testing data may show one slightly better than the other. All of these cars are VERY capable and powerful and, the competition is so close. the winner of a road course competition i believe will ultimately be won by the better driver. The f-gt does have the top speed hands down f-gt/212mph, srt-vert/196mph, zo6/197mph. the topend numbers are nice bragging rights but in the real world(mine at least) these will never be seen i've only had my srt-vert to 170mph(top down).
The FGT also has it in 0-60...1320...0-100...mile.The Viper is much closer to the Z than the Z is to the FGT. Trust me on this one (or don't...read all the Mag tests), the FGT is hands down quicker in all aspects of STRAIGHTLINE performance. The Z is SLIGHTLY quicker than the Viper. I have now had 2 Z's, and 2 FGT's...not close. Now...I am not talking about tracking or road racing, I don't have a personal comparison on that...just street or straightline.
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
I will agree that the f=gt has some of the better/best acceleration numbers, but as the times on the road course(in the same article and the commentary) say the others are faster around that track. Conversely i have almost no street or drag racing experience(or almost none would be correct). I get on the road coure at 5-6 times a year and have driven about 4000 miles around my local 1.4 miles circiut alone(not all in the viper), i am by no means a professional driver, but i really only get my jollies on the track. The performance level and capabilities of these types of cars cannot be explored on the street without doing something dumb, dangerous or a good combination of both!
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