AC Problem

[Bonkers]

All I'm saying is that it's like going to Jiffy-Lube for oil
change advice. Under that logic I'll send an email off
to the company I've been using for the past four years
(with no gauges or problems) and ask them if its okay.

I'll concede that R12-R134a conv kits might be bad, even
dangerious, but you'll need to show me some kind of offical
documentation that show the recharge cans are either bad
for you system OR danagerious.

 

[Gerald Levin]

Maybe you don't know as much as you think you do? Far fetched, I know..

Travis, For someone that has been around for a long time but posts infrequently you've got some big b@lls to dis Tom. Name one other member here that knows more. He may not know everything, but more knowledgeable than anyone here on this forum. You should temper your comments.

 

[Travis]

All I'm saying is that it's like going to Jiffy-Lube for oil
change advice. Under that logic I'll send an email off
to the company I've been using for the past four years
(with no gauges or problems) and ask them if its okay.

I'll concede that R12-R134a conv kits might be bad, even
dangerious, but you'll need to show me some kind of offical
documentation that show the recharge cans are either bad
for you system OR danagerious.

Recharge cans are fine, as long as they do not have sealer in them. For info on sealer, you can go to the forum I mentioned and just search 'sealer' or post a thread about it.

A AC system may work without correctly charging it(with knowing freon weights and high/low pressures), but it will not work as well as it was designed to work, and it may live a shortened life.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Well, I may not know that much, but at least I know how to read.

Seems this started with an R-134a system that was low and the owner added more R-134a... nobody made it any more complicated with R-12 to R-134a conversions or stop leak until you did.

Then I "read" in the Dodge Service Manual that they connect gauges but fill until the bubbles go away. The only weighing comes in when they said to continue to add another 8 oz. Maybe Dodge doesn't know that much, either, eh?

8 oz short of full, which is 30 oz in my manual, is still pretty far from filled, so I guess the dumb-down version of home AC repair has a pretty good safety margin.

Freon (capital F) is a DuPont registered trade mark for a group of chlorofluorocarbons. I don't think that's the same as R-134a, which contains no chlorine.

 

[Travis]

Tom 'dissed' me first. I know he is a smart guy, but he is oviously not a experienced AC tech, I have seem him post before this thread about 'recharging' AC and it was as apparent then as it is now.

One thing you are correct about though is the size of my testicals. I don't give a flying fu(k about post counts, or that fact that I should assume that someone is right about something, just because they are known to have knowledge in other areas.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

>There is so much wrong info in this post about AC I don't know where to start.<

This came from you before I said anything. Then you brought up death kits. So I researched and asked questions about product labeling and Dodge repair procedures. (You know, stuff that was on the topic.) And I apologized for not looking at the reference site. Where's the "dis"?

If you have some knowledge, please share it (not just "look here") and then expect some questions. I'd rather hear it from you than sift through Google.

 

[Travis]

>There is so much wrong info in this post about AC I don't know where to start.<

This came from you before I said anything. Then you brought up death kits. So I researched and asked questions about product labeling and Dodge repair procedures. (You know, stuff that was on the topic.) And I apologized for not looking at the reference site. Where's the "dis"?

If you have some knowledge, please share it (not just "look here") and then expect some questions. I'd rather hear it from you than sift through Google.

I brought up 'death kits' and 'sealers' because most 'ac recharge kits' include R134A which contains sealers. The sealer works by hardening when it contacts air(which is introduced into the system by the leak point). Great, it seals the leak, but it will also seal any other small 'holes' in the system(orfice tube, thermal expansion valve, condensor, etc). When those small, but vital passages get clogged, you will often run into problems. Then when you bring it to a qualified tech with a sealant identifier, and he realizes there is sealer in the system which may clog up his AC equipment, he will refuse to work on it in most cases. This is where terms such as 'death kits' come from.

AC systems are charged by weight of the refrigerant, not the pressure. Checking the pressures is just a diagnostic tool. Somewhat similar to filling your radiator...which you fill by voulume, not pressure. Not a great comparison, but you get the idea. Servicing by low pressure(which the death kits tell you to do) is very inaccurate because the low pressure side is the 'suction' side of the compressor, which means it is the liquid being returned to the compressor for compression, to start the AC cycle again. The only pressure that will get you into the ballpark on properly servicing is the high side pressure, which should be roughly 2.2 to 2.4x the ambient temp. Again, this is just a ballpark since all systems operate at slightly diffrent pressures.

As someone stated before, a empty system must be charged into a vaccum, as for one 'evacuating' the system will boil off all moisture, and also the system cannot have air in it.

As for the repair manual, it is correct about charging until the glass is clear, but it does indicate that you need to add another 8oz, which can only be done correctly with a service machine or a charging scale.

Hope this helps,
Travis

 

[Z06reformed]

I dont know that much either,but I do know that 40-50 degrees is COLD!!! I was out Tuesday afternoon with my daughter to meet my wife for dinner and she did not want to ride home with me because our "Wiper" was toooo hot.I think I will get a recharge soon as well-good or not Im in.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Thanks, I learned something. I thought sealers would have been like those in "high mileage oils" i.e. additives to soften up old, hard gaskets or elastomers, stopping leaks. Your example is more like radiator stop-leak that also hardens with contact to air, and can also plug up heater cores.

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

All I know is I used a DIY refill last year and ended up with no AC this year. MOST likely it was operator error, ***** to be me.

Took car to a friend of a friend who does this stuff for a living...AC is good-to-go!!

I'll stick to the few things I know from now on.

 

[Randy]

All I know is I used a DIY refill last year and ended up with no AC this year. MOST likely it was operator error, ***** to be me.

Took car to a friend of a friend who does this stuff for a living...AC is good-to-go!!

I'll stick to the few things I know from now on.

In my limited experience, the most common failing part on an A/C system is the schrader valves (where you attach the gauges). You could just be a victim of a stuck valve - when your friend of a friend fixed it, what did he say was the cause?

Servicing A/C's is not rocket science, but, as Travis noted, you do have to know a few non-intuitive things as well as having some specialized equipment. For most people, sure, its more cost effective and safer to have someone else with the tools and experience do it. But, for those of us that would rather pay a lot more the first time to be able to do it ourselves, its still within the realm of your abilities.

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

NOT my realm!! LOL!!! Maybe some day......

 

[Warfang]

All I know is I used a DIY refill last year and ended up with no AC this year. MOST likely it was operator error, ***** to be me.

Took car to a friend of a friend who does this stuff for a living...AC is good-to-go!!

I'll stick to the few things I know from now on.

In my limited experience, the most common failing part on an A/C system is the schrader valves (where you attach the gauges). You could just be a victim of a stuck valve - when your friend of a friend fixed it, what did he say was the cause?

Servicing A/C's is not rocket science, but, as Travis noted, you do have to know a few non-intuitive things as well as having some specialized equipment. For most people, sure, its more cost effective and safer to have someone else with the tools and experience do it. But, for those of us that would rather pay a lot more the first time to be able to do it ourselves, its still within the realm of your abilities.

Well, since you're in the neighborhood... I might as well come by where you are... care to help out a club member in need?

 

[Z06reformed]

I have about 45 pounds of 134a in the system but still have bubbles and absolutely no AC.What is the consensus on this?Everything else seems OK.May have to take it in anyway but it was worth $20 to try if this isnt something I can fix.

 

[hemibeep]

I assume you are referring to 45 psi pressure on the low side. If you mean 45lbs of freon "RUN!".
Assuming 90* outside temp. 20-42 suction(low) pressure. 210-270 high side pressure. The ac system holds 30 oz or 1.88lbs of 134 .

If you really want to try this at home. Harbor Freight tools sells a dual gauge setup for around $50. Also you can rent a vacuum pump from some auto parts stores. I used to pull a vacuum, mark the gauge and let it sit overnight to detect if there is a leak. No leak and top off the system.

 

[Z06reformed]

Uh yeah,thats right.About $40 for those that are reading too.

 

[PatentLaw]

If I am to assume that you
1) Have a correct charge of R134a
2) And have no AC whatsoever,

Your problem may be a faulty AC expansion valve located in the HVAC housing under the passenger part of the dashboard.

Hate to tell you, but this is a very time consuming fix. The part is about $80 bucks. The R134a cost is minimal. The labor is extensive. You will need to get a service manual for your year car and plan this job out (if you do it yourself). It involves removing the blower and blower housing. The radiator hoses to the box (under the hood nearest to the passenger compartment-passenger side) will also need to be removed. You have to loosen two bolts in the engine compartment that support the HVAC box. You then have to take apart the interior underneath the passenger air bag to get at and remove the box (not easy-tight fit). Vacuum lines will have to be disconnected and tagged for future reinstallation.

Then you have to disassemble the box to get at the valve. If you are not good with your hands and tools, I would advise against doing this job. It will take some time, even for an expert. Sorry for the bad news. No magic wand here.