ACR paint issue

[Coloviper]

In the end, I hope the new GEN V (if we have such a thing) will remedy some of these QA/QC issues. Though "NO" car is perfect, the $100K+ range is a different animal to compete in as opposed to a $75K range. All new jigs, moulds, etc. for the new car need to be created from scratch, so it is a chance for Dodge to get it right and bring up the Quality/Product standards. I have confidence they will get it right if they produce a new car. Nobody goes 1/2 way on their halo car right?

The Final Editions coming out will get bought and sold no matter the quality so what are we arguing about here?. Yes it would be nice to have the perfect car, but then again I am going to drive it and it will no longer be perfect, so if there is a flaw, they need to just make it right financially. Bought my 06' Coupe brand new with 17 miles right out of the showroom for $75K, so any argument I may have had with my paint was irrelevent. Had I paid MRSP, I woud have been talking to the dealership about a financial restitution.

Delearships matching up these new metallic paints, you have a better chance of hitting the lottery than a perfect repaint or match with an owner that is upset to start with. Not the dealer's fault, it is just the newer paints. Also define paint issue? I bought a brand new 07' Jeep SRT8 where the factory primer was showing in the door jams because of extremely poor paint from the factory. Would have rusted out in few years with winter driving and I could not get anything from Dodge as they would not even spray the inner jams to make sure they were covered. NOT a Viper thing, it is a Corporate Dodge thing. In fact, the GM paint jobs are just as bad as the orange peel is horendous, even on the new ZR1. I have to give it up to Ford though as they seem to have really stepped up the paint quality on their newer cars and they really needed to becuase they were bad before.

Sorry but the argument of "this is American hand built by Americans". I would pull that statement as it is not saying much for us Americans if we tolerate imperfection as such. Clearly the QA/QC is not at a high enough standard for the $100K+ buyer. The cars took forever to get out the less that 2000 cars a year, so there is no excuse for poor quality. Obviously time crunch volume sales don't play into the formula. Dodge needs to change it's standards minimums, especially for the Viper.

In the end, it is what it is, as the cars are built. GEN V really needs to have quality stepped up to be successful. Too many alternatives out there now. It is not 1992 anymore when it was pretty much the only game in town.

Don't confuse designing and engineering the perfect car with building it. Those are two totally different aspects and are always treated seperately when dialing in QA/QC. Successful QA/QC is always treated third party to the process as it needs to be unbaised and just look at the facts. Results are to be fed back into manufacturing process to make it better. Just because something was assembled poorly, doesn't mean it was engineered and designed poorly. Haven't you been to IKEA before?

 

[jcaspar1]

If you are seeking perfection you will always be disappointed. Even Porsche (according to JD Powers) has 90 defects per 100 cars. Heck, BMW is worse than Chevy with 112 per 100 and Mini 165 (the worst)! I can't see how you can lose it over one defect in a car that you have not even tried to get fixed...

 

[compcoupe21]

I am getting tired of listening to the the defenders of the company and it's product. Anyone who thinks a seam coming through the paint or a crease in the paint of 100k car really should lay off the pipe! The point here is first grade, do it right or don't f_cking do it at all. The Viper is a very profitable venture for Chrysler, the least they can do is instruct the managers of production to oversee what is coming out of the plant! Believe me it wasn't the Viper that caused their downfall, frankly I would like to know just how much in the black the Viper has put them for 18 years, quite a bit I'm sure so the least they can do is make it right!

 

[ASPIRATIONS]

If you are seeking perfection you will always be disappointed. Even Porsche (according to JD Powers) has 90 defects per 100 cars. Heck, BMW is worse than Chevy with 112 per 100 and Mini 165 (the worst)! I can't see how you can lose it over one defect in a car that you have not even tried to get fixed...

The POINT Comp Coupe is making and I believe is YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE TROUBLE and TIME to GET A NEW CAR FIXED,ESPECIALLY A 100K CAR!!!! I went through 2.5 months to get my 08 Coupe made right because of bad panel fitment and it still wasnt up to MY standards!!!! IF YOU want a half -assed 100K car great but I DONT and either does comp-coupe...This will be my last Viper and Iam happy this one is ok......for the most part.........This agrument will never end because as stated before some people are more critical of what they buy and some are not..
As a side note I almost had a heart -attack watching Ralf and Alf build an addition to our home 5 yrs ago...The general contractor told me I notice alot of things most people didnt......So the point is we SHOULD NOT accept ANY flaws with our Vipers and FiDodge should be on notice...lol....1 more year and we wont have the Viper to ***** about anymore,anyway.. Kevin

 

[compcoupe21]

Thanks Kevin for helping me make my point. Maybe we are more picky then others but that's our right to be if we choose! How many times have you heard a friend ***** that their $100 cell phone *****? I really am shocked @ how many people are accepting of inferior craftsmanship but to each his own I guess!! On another note when I ordered my 09 ACR back in July 08 I ordered exactly what you now have, fully loaded like yours! The only reason I bailed was it was taking way too long and I regretfully ended up with the Murci.

 

[ASPIRATIONS]

I left my car in the classifieds because if my wife sells her business I still want to get a 04-05 Murci...I really wish I could get this 04 on the Lambo site(6 speed man.7K exhaust,1 owner,clearbra,really nice shape and recent service) but just cant swing it with the ACR..I see that Socrates old car sold for 85K(I asked the dealer)...That would of been a great car for you..!!! 09 Graphite/Drivers stripe/MGW SS/MGW HVAC knobs/Clearbra/Never seen the track/3700 miles..Hes very anal about his cars too...I have to say that Graphite is a beautiful color and makes the Viper look more sinister.MY SSG was beautiful to in a different way as in in your face Kevin

 

[red heat]

of all the vehicles I have ever purchased, factory paint in general is absolute garbage. no secret to anyone. I didn't expect anything less when I received my 09 ACR. my 02 rt/10 was even worse. after 5 yrs, I had the RT repainted by a well respected body shop and now it looks like a mirror. you could shave in front of it.

in addiition to the above, I also have an 08 infiniti m 35 and it is orange peeled out the ass. again factory paint is nothing short of garbage. I have learned to accept it and it no longer bothers me.

 

[J&R3xV10]

I am getting tired of listening to the the defenders of the company and it's product. Anyone who thinks a seam coming through the paint or a crease in the paint of 100k car really should lay off the pipe! The point here is first grade, do it right or don't f_cking do it at all. The Viper is a very profitable venture for Chrysler, the least they can do is instruct the managers of production to oversee what is coming out of the plant! Believe me it wasn't the Viper that caused their downfall, frankly I would like to know just how much in the black the Viper has put them for 18 years, quite a bit I'm sure so the least they can do is make it right!

You clearly came to the wrong place! You might be happier in the ally, they love to talk **** about everyone over there.

And to those that keep bringing up the American made by Americans are missing the point that it is HAND BUILT. Its not so important to this topic that its built in America by Americans, its that its a hand built car that is important. Being hand built means that it is open to having imperfections as people are not perfect.

The viper was never meant to be the car that pretentious assholes buy to impress their friends with. It was designed for DRIVING enjoyment. The reason that viper is able to keep prices WAY BELOW competitors and still perform better is because they do not spend as much time and money on the performance useless pretty crap.

 

[jcaspar1]

Why don't you just do something about it? You must have faced bigger issues in your life then this? Did you just ***** and moan about it or did you do something about it? Have you discussed it with the dealer. Just have them fix it, just like the 90 out of 100 Porsche owners do that find defects in their cars in the first 3 months they own it.....

I am getting tired of listening to the the defenders of the company and it's product. Anyone who thinks a seam coming through the paint or a crease in the paint of 100k car really should lay off the pipe! The point here is first grade, do it right or don't f_cking do it at all. The Viper is a very profitable venture for Chrysler, the least they can do is instruct the managers of production to oversee what is coming out of the plant! Believe me it wasn't the Viper that caused their downfall, frankly I would like to know just how much in the black the Viper has put them for 18 years, quite a bit I'm sure so the least they can do is make it right!

 

[compcoupe21]

Why don't you just do something about it? You must have faced bigger issues in your life then this? Did you just ***** and moan about it or did you do something about it? Have you discussed it with the dealer. Just have them fix it, just like the 90 out of 100 Porsche owners do that find defects in their cars in the first 3 months they own it.....

If you had read the thread carefully I am in discussions with the dealer who by the way is Baxter and has been absolutely great and I am doing something about it besides ********! Regarding life issues, well we certainly don't need to go there now do we? And I don't give a **** about Porsche's or anybody's problem per 100 cars, the only reason I brought Porsche into this thread is b/c I own one and to compare the fit and finish which by the way an awful lot of people on this thread confirmed is far superior! I know it is tedious to read all the posts but if you do you'll see that I just wanted to get other owners input before I went to the dealer, isn't that what this forum is for? I see some real stupid posts on here that go on forever but it's my feeling that the paint on a brand new 100k car is not stupid and I like everyone is certainly entitled to my opinion.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Porsche Vs. Dodge reliability? Just take a look at the groups each year that compile info from owners about reliability and service issues and you will see Porsche is well ahead. In fact usually near the top of the charts in the last few years, ahead of most manufactures. They dont have a lot of left over stock either sitting around dealers lots. With well over 1500 views on his issue and many with the same complaint I dont think its taken lighly either. Many new owners DO buy their Viper to show and not just "drive the wheels off it" so they do expect it to be delivered in a 100k condition.

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

I haven't made the time to read the entire thread.. but if it were me and it was an important purchase, I would have made time to inspect the new car prior to delivery and refuse it on the spot if there was something that I didn't like.

I think you / compcoupe21 has every right to complain, just get it sorted out, ***** to hear about the frustration.

Btw.. sometimes it's due to the panel material. For example regarding carbon fibre or SMC material, over time the material with shrink or sink, and deviations will occur. Such as the Gen2, there are voids all over the car that evolve over time, even if there are parts bonded, they call this read through, the bonding adhesive will shrink and create deviations in the exterior surface. Porsche, most of the exterior panels are aluminum. Even with aluminum, if there is a bonded joint to the backside of the panel, there can be read through.

In summary, with less post forming effort you can get a better finish with aluminum panels compared to plastic or SMC which your Viper is comprised of. If it's just paint, then I would expect that they resolve this.

It would be tough to compare Porsche and the Viper. Your Porsche is a variant of a current production car and processes. The Viper is an individual vehicle platform and is unique and limited built in a plant that doesn't build anything else, in such that it is not manufactured to the typical platform processes and quality control. The Viper is a very low volume car with limited resources and there are many challenges and more of a hand built approach, so it's expected that stuff like this can occur.

I can tell you for a fact that the quality of a high volume car exceeds the quality of a low volume car. Volume = resouces, whether engineering or manufacturing equipment, tooling, etc. It is very misleading in today's automotive industry that a hand built low volume car is expected to be higher quality. Your Porsche is based off a high volume platform in an existing plant, of course the quality and finish will be better. A Corvette will be better regarding fit and finish because fo the resources and volume. It's just how it is. The Viper having limited resources is a great example, it is probably one of the best cars for the money when you compare the resources needed to design, engineer, and manufacture it.

Good luck with getting the paint flaw sorted out..

Cheers,
Mike

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

The Viper has become the new "Neon". Yes there are issues. Just imagine how the '10 Viper is going to come out. Less people working the line building Vipers, you think you have problems...these people are wondering where they are going after this run of vipers. Maybe there should have been an option for a "body in white" so we could save some cash & have our own people we trust to paint our cars.

Doubt that comment Viper becoming the new Neon.. when I worked at Chrysler when Daimler bought them and one of the comments I remember... Daimler was extremely impressed with the Viper because there was 1/3 of the design, engineering and manufacturing resources (in total) compared to the small car / Neon platform. The Viper is a shining star when you compare the end product and resources.

 

[Chrissss]

I've been to the point of almost having the entire car painted due to factory paint problems. So far, new hood (not entirely due to paint), and new paint on doors, not to mention having to have the fit on the trunk improved. I love my Viper but quality fit and finish is at best a crap shoot. Have had three BMW's and and one Mercedes and never had that.

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

I've been to the point of almost having the entire car painted due to factory paint problems. So far, new hood (not entirely due to paint), and new paint on doors, not to mention having to have the fit on the trunk improved. I love my Viper but quality fit and finish is at best a crap shoot. Have had three BMW's and and one Mercedes and never had that.

It's easy enough to find people complaining on the net about BMW, Mercedes, or practically any car regarding poor paint, orange peel or whatever..

The "enviromentally friendly" water based paint seems to be the challenge getting a decent finish at OEMs..

 

[J&R3xV10]

I haven't made the time to read the entire thread.. but if it were me and it was an important purchase, I would have made time to inspect the new car prior to delivery and refuse it on the spot if there was something that I didn't like.

I think you / compcoupe21 has every right to complain, just get it sorted out, ***** to hear about the frustration.

Btw.. sometimes it's due to the panel material. For example regarding carbon fibre or SMC material, over time the material with shrink or sink, and deviations will occur. Such as the Gen2, there are voids all over the car that evolve over time, even if there are parts bonded, they call this read through, the bonding adhesive will shrink and create deviations in the exterior surface. Porsche, most of the exterior panels are aluminum. Even with aluminum, if there is a bonded joint to the backside of the panel, there can be read through.

In summary, with less post forming effort you can get a better finish with aluminum panels compared to plastic or SMC which your Viper is comprised of. If it's just paint, then I would expect that they resolve this.

It would be tough to compare Porsche and the Viper. Your Porsche is a variant of a current production car and processes. The Viper is an individual vehicle platform and is unique and limited built in a plant that doesn't build anything else, in such that it is not manufactured to the typical platform processes and quality control. The Viper is a very low volume car with limited resources and there are many challenges and more of a hand built approach, so it's expected that stuff like this can occur.

I can tell you for a fact that the quality of a high volume car exceeds the quality of a low volume car. Volume = resouces, whether engineering or manufacturing equipment, tooling, etc. It is very misleading in today's automotive industry that a hand built low volume car is expected to be higher quality. Your Porsche is based off a high volume platform in an existing plant, of course the quality and finish will be better. A Corvette will be better regarding fit and finish because fo the resources and volume. It's just how it is. The Viper having limited resources is a great example, it is probably one of the best cars for the money when you compare the resources needed to design, engineer, and manufacture it.

Good luck with getting the paint flaw sorted out..

Cheers,
Mike

There you have it! The FACTS from a true EXPERT! Thanks Mike for saying what I meant, I am just not smart enough to put it as well as you did I would be interested to know how many if ANY other production vehicle is painted in the same way as the Viper due to its unique situation.

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

My 06 was flawless also...it really is too bad these type of paint deficiencies have happened of which there seems to be quite a few. I for one would be on my dealers doorstep as this really is unacceptable.

 

[shooter_t1]

this really is unacceptable.

Exactly.

 

[joedud]

If you can get the dealer to fix the paint, do it. If not, then fix it yourself or get rid of the car. Otherwise, if you're like me it will annoy you to no end and ruin your ownership experience.

Obviously, some people care about these things and others just don't. How much more analysis does this take? Don't feel defensive about being the kind of person who does care. You're not alone.

 

[FLX109]

Dont forget, Yes don't for get that manufacturers are also forced to change their products, Latex's over enamel's which are more enviormentally friendly, latex causes lots of orange peel, it drys way too fast. Wet sand/buff and clear coat until its right which cost $$'s, but for what we pay for these cars it should be to our satisfaction and please don't paint stripes or fix other vehicles paint problems in the same area and create overspray.

 

[compcoupe21]

First I'd like to say thanks to coloviper and 2000 r/t 10 for taking their time and writing some very detailed responses! Also I'd like to thank all guys who were supportive and understanding of my concerns, it's impossible to mention you all by name but you know who you are including some Texas boys and Kevin!!

Okay here's the latest, I met with my friend and the only guy I'd trust with anything high end that I own and here was his take. Just to let you know he does mostly exotic and euro stuff, his shop just finished doing a 300k repair on a Koenigsegg! Not knowing the underbody structure of a Viper b/c he doesn't normally work on them he feels the perpindicular line in the paint is due to a body brace in that location, maybe b/c the fuel filler is on that side. While examing the car he found what he called sand sludge in the jam near the hinges and something I did not see and that was an unattended to area under the body crease on the same side door. The area I am reffering to is the middle of the door underneath the body overhang, it was a repainted area which explains the sand sludge on that side of the car. Well being an expert he went over the whole car and generally was satisfied with the paint minus a few minor things he found here and there!

He concluded that he can easily get the line out by getting down to the body and using a criss cross method of smoothing it and needless to say would shoot the 1/4 and the door and maybe even the front fender. Fortunately their is not a lot to disassemble on these cars so the repair will be not that involved. He also suggested that they 3000 paper the whole car b/c the color which is already very vibrant would really explode with more clarity! So that is the route I will take, he is writing an estimate for me today and I will forward it to my dealer.

I hope that this thread will help all of the guys who are buying 2010's get paint and finish work that is pretty damn close to perfect b/c that is what this forum is supposed to be all about, helping each other w/our Viper's. For of of you who engaged in this thread thank you for your opinions and honesty, I certainly don't agree with a few of you but that's okay, we're all entitled!! And just to throw some gas on the fire, if anyone is ever in the CT area and would like to do a track day at Limerock I can set it up! I'll be sure to bring the Porsche and show you all what a little 6 cyl. can do on a twisty track!!!Hopefully you realize I am just adding a little fun to what was a intense thread. And buy the way, loser buys dinner...

One last thing, can anyone tell me how to friggin' get some pictures up, everytime I try it keeps telling me error b/c the kb's are too big. I'm not a techy so I don't know a way around this. Maybe I can email someone the pics and they can put them up!!!

 

[hou99gts]

CC21 - I hope you get all the issues corrected to your satisfaction! Thank you for posting up this thread so we could all see how many cars are having issues!

About the pics, most picture viewers will let you resize the pictures so you can post them up, or you can send them to me and I will do it for you tonight (PM me and I will send an e-mail address). I will take a few pics of my car as well to document my paint issues.

 

[hou99gts]

Here are some pics of CC21 (Dan's) car, nice color! Solid ACR's are few and far between.... LOL!

 

[BlknBlu]

It looks even better in person. I saw his car several times at the dealership here in Omaha.

Bruce

 

[ViperGeorge]

I love the color.

 

[compcoupe21]

It looks even better in person. I saw his car several times at the dealership here in Omaha.

Bruce

Thanks Bruce! It will look MUCH better when we are done with it!!

 

[compcoupe21]

I love the color.

Gee, do ya??

 

[hou99gts]

Two more pics. Sorry I didn't get a chance to call you back today Dan, work got a little crazy...

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

Envy, envy, envy.. that is a favorite ACR, great color, reminds me of an older Mopar shades of blue, sort of between B3 and B5... hard to say because I haven't seen one yet other than in pics... congratulations on a nice car, hope the paint stuff gets sorted out soon enough..
Cheers,
Mike

 

[Martin]

Nice color, but nowhere near as great as the classic GTS Blue I'm almost thinking about getting Bruce's twin car, but I can't stand the blue interior. Car interiors should only be black, grey, tan or maybe black with red accents, depending on the outside color A blue interior is just a bit too freaky for me and I don't like to be freaked out where I live most of the time.