Alum radiator needed
- Thread starter cratica
- Start date
AndyMac
Enthusiast
Thanks for posting info on the rebuilt rad.
HHI VIPER
Viper Owner
After having problems with a Ron Davis that was on the car before I bought it I considered going a different route after all the members feedback. But, with a little help from JonB we both contacted RD and they gave me a deep discount on a new one to make me happy. They didn't have to as I never even bought the first one from them, it was on the car when I purchased it and at least 2 years old. They have a new design now that I have had on for a year and over 10K miles with absolutley no problems. Works like a champ! Alot of guys are just staying with stock. They seem to work just fine. Talk with JonB about the newer style from Ron Davis. He could probably explain more to you. I believe it has something to do with heavier welds at the seams??? I could be wrong. That was over a year ago. Seems like any of them can fail!
dave6666
Enthusiast
I guess no one likes me LOL. They'd prefer I tell everyone about my experience with their product even after now I have on record both radiators I've tried admitting defect. Instead of like, um, getting me the new and improved version. Things did work out on the first one I tried so I'm not really owed anything, but it would be nice if my current leaker which got a chickenship epoxy repair under warranty was replaced with the "bugs worked out" model.
Anyway, I plan on doing a retirement video on it; the non-bugs worked out leaker in the car now. There will be some construction equipment involved. I'm figuring it will fit in a shoe box when I'm done with it.
Stay tuned.
Anyway, I plan on doing a retirement video on it; the non-bugs worked out leaker in the car now. There will be some construction equipment involved. I'm figuring it will fit in a shoe box when I'm done with it.
Stay tuned.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
I think the fins per inch is a key factor. Here is my three core copper rebuild...
99VPRGTS
Enthusiast
Chuck, that looks great! Very well put together. Got any specific build info?
Jay01m I'd like to hear about your build as well.
Jay01m I'd like to hear about your build as well.
dave6666
Enthusiast
My 3-core copper - in the top of the stack in one of my pics above - was done at a local shop here in Texas. They took the end tanks off and then took the core to a manufacturer in Dallas that made the core to the specs of the factory core. They did the math, I paid.
The cost breakdown was:
-> Core $400
-> Shipping $35
-> Labor $50
-> Tax
I think it came out to right at $500
I also have a pic fetish. And seeing as Bird325 is trolling this thread, and we did a dyno day Sunday, here's a pic of his car and mine together.
Like the puddle under mine?
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Man I miss the Blue and silver GTS.Bird325 kept it just as clean as the day I sold it to him.Dave your car is badass.
99VPRGTS
Enthusiast
So all I would need to send them would be my core? What is the turn around time and how well does this radiator perform compared to the others? Thanks for the info!
Regards,
Brent
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Brent, you might be able to find somebody local to do the job. If not you can contact my guy in Tampa. Let him know I sent you and maybe he will start doing some site sponsoring. Ask for Jim. 813-932-4371 Guaranteed Radiators of Tampa. They've been in business for more than 30 years.
In all fairness I haven't yet tested mine out. Probably wont be able to until next year when it's ready for the track. But I am very happy with the service and anxious to run it.
I think the fins per inch is a key factor. Here is my three core copper rebuild...
Chuck...the "Hold approximately 120 ounces"...that's slightly less than one gallon. Is that statement in the pic correct?
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Yes. I poured a gallon jug of water (distilled of course) into it myself to see how much it held. I wish I would have done the same with a stock two-core when I had the chance, just so I could compare. I suspect the difference would be less than a quart.
The entire cooling system holds just over three gallons according to the manual.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Dunno. Three-core copper. Stock is a two-core copper. When I remove the aluminum one out of my tracker I'll weigh it.
dave6666
Enthusiast
-> My stock radiator weighs 20.2 pounds
-> My Ron Davis weighed 17.4 pounds but held one quart more fluid so that's a wash
-> My 3-core copper weighs 29 pounds. I did not measure the increased fluid capacity.
-> I never weighed my Roe 3-pass which when that epoxied thang comes back out of the car and gets compressed to the size of a shoe box by construction equipment, maybe I'll weigh it then.
When I did my triple fan installation I started collecting real data on the cooling system performance. More in relation to the stock fan versus the 3 fans, but all of that data will transfer to doing a side by side comparison to another radiator. I have the 3-core copper and the Alan's to play with next. All the 3 fan data was with the Roe. Too bad the epoxy patch didn't last.
So I'm in the same boat as Chuck now. Not much performance info on the 3-core copper. I will point out however that I did have it in the car for a while and it even developed a small leak near the inlet nozzle in the core. I took it back to the shop that build it and he repaired it with solder. Glad to see he didn't get the JB Weld 2-part epoxy out LOL. Anyway, I will work with it again soon. I add about 1/4 gallon of water a day to keep up with what the Roe is puking. Looking forward to just checking the oil when the hood is up like normal folk do. Maybe wiping the dust off the valve covers. NOT filling the cooling system every other day.
Probably even more important than the previous rant are what I believe to be a couple of important misconceptions about radiator size and performance. First off, performance...
Only an idiot like me in chemical engineering would take a perfectly good radiator out to study the effect of heat transfer of a different radiator. Most people take it out because it leaks or won't cool, and when they put in that shiny new (insert fav brand here) unit, they are like WOW, THIS NEW RADIATOR IS GREAT!!! No, more than likely it's not that your new radiator is great, it's that your old one was clogged. See the pic of my '01 factory core after ~35K miles.
Moral of that story is, ANY radiator would fix your problem. Even just getting the crap out of your old stock one on a new stock one.
The other misconception I have is about size. You'll put that new 3-pass or 3-core or whatever in and say that the bigger radiator solved your cooling problems. See the above...
What happened may have likely been you now have flow and before you didn't.
I have spent a good deal of time in my 110 degree playground watching the effect of airflow on coolant temp. And I've discovered that a bigger radiator really does not cool any better unless you get more air flowing on it. Easy to do on the highway, but I do a lot of city driving and that's when I decide the 3 fan setup would move the bar on my cooling system. It worked. More airflow is KING.
In summary of that, I would never discourage anyone as I have done myself, to get the bigger radiator, but don't blame the post installation effect of better cooling entirely on the new one. And don't expect to get the full capability of it's cooling without adding additional fans. I do have the data to show they work.
-> My Ron Davis weighed 17.4 pounds but held one quart more fluid so that's a wash
-> My 3-core copper weighs 29 pounds. I did not measure the increased fluid capacity.
-> I never weighed my Roe 3-pass which when that epoxied thang comes back out of the car and gets compressed to the size of a shoe box by construction equipment, maybe I'll weigh it then.
When I did my triple fan installation I started collecting real data on the cooling system performance. More in relation to the stock fan versus the 3 fans, but all of that data will transfer to doing a side by side comparison to another radiator. I have the 3-core copper and the Alan's to play with next. All the 3 fan data was with the Roe. Too bad the epoxy patch didn't last.
So I'm in the same boat as Chuck now. Not much performance info on the 3-core copper. I will point out however that I did have it in the car for a while and it even developed a small leak near the inlet nozzle in the core. I took it back to the shop that build it and he repaired it with solder. Glad to see he didn't get the JB Weld 2-part epoxy out LOL. Anyway, I will work with it again soon. I add about 1/4 gallon of water a day to keep up with what the Roe is puking. Looking forward to just checking the oil when the hood is up like normal folk do. Maybe wiping the dust off the valve covers. NOT filling the cooling system every other day.
Probably even more important than the previous rant are what I believe to be a couple of important misconceptions about radiator size and performance. First off, performance...
Only an idiot like me in chemical engineering would take a perfectly good radiator out to study the effect of heat transfer of a different radiator. Most people take it out because it leaks or won't cool, and when they put in that shiny new (insert fav brand here) unit, they are like WOW, THIS NEW RADIATOR IS GREAT!!! No, more than likely it's not that your new radiator is great, it's that your old one was clogged. See the pic of my '01 factory core after ~35K miles.
Moral of that story is, ANY radiator would fix your problem. Even just getting the crap out of your old stock one on a new stock one.
You must be registered for see images
The other misconception I have is about size. You'll put that new 3-pass or 3-core or whatever in and say that the bigger radiator solved your cooling problems. See the above...
What happened may have likely been you now have flow and before you didn't.
I have spent a good deal of time in my 110 degree playground watching the effect of airflow on coolant temp. And I've discovered that a bigger radiator really does not cool any better unless you get more air flowing on it. Easy to do on the highway, but I do a lot of city driving and that's when I decide the 3 fan setup would move the bar on my cooling system. It worked. More airflow is KING.
In summary of that, I would never discourage anyone as I have done myself, to get the bigger radiator, but don't blame the post installation effect of better cooling entirely on the new one. And don't expect to get the full capability of it's cooling without adding additional fans. I do have the data to show they work.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Dave, You and I are on exactly the same page. When I took my radiator in for the rebuild I told them to stay with the stock two-core. But they knocked $40 off the three-core so I said alright, I'll give it a try. I am still not completely sold that I needed three cores but if it does clog over time I should be able to get a little more out of it. The extra ten pounds bothers me a lot.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
This thread got me motivated to install my rebuilt three-core and surprise...it won't fit. They positioned the lower outlet too wide. The aftermarket aluminum (on the right) was a tight enough fit but the rebuilt doesn't stand a chance. Looks like I'll be going back to the radiator shop tomorrow to get it fixed.
dave6666
Enthusiast
They'll fix that with the blue wrench and all will be well.
On mine they used factory end tanks. Where did those come from?
On mine they used factory end tanks. Where did those come from?
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Those are the stock tanks, at least they look just like my before pics. I'm not sure how all that fits together but I think they either replaced the outlet pipe or the passenger side tank was assembled a couple degrees off causing the very end of the outlet to be about 1/2 inch further out than it should be.
I thought about bending it myself but I was concerned with cracking a weld somewhere. I guess I could do it and then get it pressure tested.
dave6666
Enthusiast
I'll see if I can get some measurements off mine since it's out of the car and it did fit. Stay tuned I'm painting and drinking beer and none of this has to do with cars right now.
Ratical2
Enthusiast
Dave, I knew that you were talented but.....you are drinking beer, painting and checking the forum at the same time....amazing!
Anybody want to tell me the secret to disconnecting the Radiator Fan. I have pushed and pulled the Red Tab every which way and can't unlock the connector!
The red tab slides to the right. I found that out AFTER I destroyed that piece of crap connector. Idiots whoever designed that piece of crap. The other guy that needs to be shot is the genius who designed the clamps used to hold the hoses on. Simple screw/nut ratchet type are soooooooooooooo much easier to take off.
I'll just give u a call. Did u and Helen get the hood off? Jen and I tried to put my hood back on today but uh, doesn't work so well with a 100lb woman trying to lift, hold and position her side. Have to wait until someone else can help. Get a plane ticket?
Ratical2
Enthusiast
The connector lock was a difficult at first. I don't have the right tool but was able to use a thin pair of needle nose pliers to move the locking tab into the release position by squeezing the clip as shown in the picture below.
Connector Detail with locking tab in the open position.
Bro, I had problems with the spring clamps until I bought this. Tools make the difference.
K-D Tools 3977 Angled Flat Band Hose Pliers
Hate them or not, that type of spring hose clamp has it's place. They are spec'ed by clamp tension. This is like torquing a screw or bolt.
Connector Detail with locking tab in the open position.
Bro, I had problems with the spring clamps until I bought this. Tools make the difference.
K-D Tools 3977 Angled Flat Band Hose Pliers
Hate them or not, that type of spring hose clamp has it's place. They are spec'ed by clamp tension. This is like torquing a screw or bolt.
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btw, I figured out what the deal is with the fan noise. The K&N carbon fiber box is a tight fit. Then when you add the slightly larger alum radiator, it pushes the air filter box down into the fan plastic fan housing which causes the fan to rub. I placed some spacers under the box to lift it up a tad and it seems better but won't know for sure until I get the hood back on and close it. I may have to take the box out and just use the filters, dunno yet....
dave6666
Enthusiast
Why did you take the hood off? Because the manual says too? LOL.
I've put in every leaky first run aluminum radiator offered for a Gen 2 so have oodles of practice, and have never removed the hood. All done with a beer in one hand a paint brush in the other because that's the way I roll
I've put in every leaky first run aluminum radiator offered for a Gen 2 so have oodles of practice, and have never removed the hood. All done with a beer in one hand a paint brush in the other because that's the way I roll
dave6666
Enthusiast
OK Chuck. Here's the '01 custom 3-core in my pile.
You can see the end tank is square to the plane of the core. Within reason.
Moving to the nozzle area you can see the face is parallel to the plane of the core.
Taking that previous view with the square and measuring the gap from the edge of the nozzle to the tank...
You can see the end tank is square to the plane of the core. Within reason.
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Moving to the nozzle area you can see the face is parallel to the plane of the core.
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Taking that previous view with the square and measuring the gap from the edge of the nozzle to the tank...
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Ratical2
Enthusiast
Why did you take the hood off? Because the manual says too? LOL.
I've put in every leaky first run aluminum radiator offered for a Gen 2 so have oodles of practice, and have never removed the hood. All done with a beer in one hand a paint brush in the other because that's the way I roll
Dave, You are one talented dude, no doubt.
But for a mere mortal like myself, I debated whether or not the pull the hood and having recently seen post of the simplicity of hood removal felt that I could greatly increase access to front of the car and greatly decrease frustration from having greater access and therefore chose to remove the hood. While we are on the topic of talent...is there anyway we can see your pictures of the splitter and diffuser build? The pic links are dead in illustrated section.
