Are Gen I parts becoming scarce??

[cayenne]

I found this as part of another thread, and it has me asking some questions.

I have a 95 RT/10 and I’m concerned that the parts for my snake are disappearing – just like the amp parts I used to beg and barter for. I like my snake and I don’t want to get rid of it. There’s been talk on this forum about these parts being lost and hopes that the VCA will step up to ensure that the molds and what not that make up our snakes will not disappear from the supply chain. I want those folks - the Viper vendors - who are so inclined to keep parts coming and I’m willing to pay a FAIR premium to ensure such. Of course, I don’t like paying premiums for parts, but I’d rather have the choice than no choice at all.

I'm still working to get a Gen I, hopefully within the next year. I'm impressed at the reliability I hear that they have. However, I'm a little concerned that I've heard a couple of times here on threads that parts are already getting hard to find for a car only 10-12 years old.

Is this true? If so, what parts are we talking about? Engine? Interior? Exterior? All of them?

Any insight into this greatly appreciated!!

cayenne

 

[Tiepilot]

Dodge quit making all parts for all '92 through '02 Vipers.

Parts are going to disappear and some parts are already hard to find.

 

[cayenne]

Dodge quit making all parts for all '92 through '02 Vipers.

Parts are going to disappear and some parts are already hard to find.

Hmm...now that is scary...is starting to make me think twice about getting one. I mean, I don't mind paying to get something fixed...but, it is another thing entirely to worry about not having the parts to fix a car that you need...

Are 3rd party manufacturers pickup up the slack on this?

C

 

[jimster]

Try finding an OEM dash......

 

[David]

http://www.allpar.com/cars/viper/production.html

 

[DodgeViper01]

That really sux. Parts are no longer made. Damn.

 

[nofearracer]

Well what is DC gonna do when they run outta parts? When there are still a lot of cars out there with DC ext. warranty on them.

 

[DodgeViper01]

DC does not seem to think quite often.

 

[propsail]

Our National VP Rich Hamielec has been working long and hard to create a solution to this problem. Let me get him to chime in on this one.


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What's also important is saving the jigs/dies/molds for these parts. I'm sure that the contractors who made Viper parts squirreled them away for safekeeping. A decade or two down the line, it will be profitable to make them in small lots. There have been occasions where the molds for some products (like the old 40's Luscombe general aircraft) end up being donated to foundations. If the VCA lasts that long, they should be so lucky...


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What ever happened to this from Joe in October? The thread just ended.


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VCA-National President

 

[Dv8tor]

Hmmm... This does not make me happy!

 

[Jay Herbert]

Our National VP Rich Hamielec has been working long and hard to create a solution to this problem. Let me get him to chime in on this one.


Quote:
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What's also important is saving the jigs/dies/molds for these parts. I'm sure that the contractors who made Viper parts squirreled them away for safekeeping. A decade or two down the line, it will be profitable to make them in small lots. There have been occasions where the molds for some products (like the old 40's Luscombe general aircraft) end up being donated to foundations. If the VCA lasts that long, they should be so lucky...


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What ever happened to this from Joe in October? The thread just ended.


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VCA-National President

I can't speak for Rich, but I've campaigned to make sure molds, tooling, jigs and fixtures were kept and not destroyed since 1992..... What makes it hard to do is the litigous society we live in... As far as I know Rich and many others have been pushing for the same thing and the current national officers are doing the same.

One Club I belonged to on and off over the years is called C.A.T. (California Association of Tiger Owners). Can't speak for them now, but when I was a member a few years back thay made parts in batchs for Tiger, had a warehouse and a paid parts manager. A good model for the VCA.

Several of our current vendors are already beginning to address parts availability as well. Cory at Snakeoyl is one, and ViperSpeed is another ... both look to be building full parts capabilities. I also see some like DC Performance and Roe Racing picking up on specific needs, DC Perf on water pumps and Roe on radiator hoses.... I think we'll be OK for parts for a while, but some things are certainly getting tougher to find.

 

[David]

Jay,

you've restored my faith in the VCA! I'm sending in my membership renewal. I was going to just let it lapse. All of the publications were getting so damned "corporate" it just didn't seem like a club I wanted to be a part of anymore...

 

[tarfungo]

I have a 95 RT/10 and I’m concerned that the parts for my snake are disappearing – just like the amp parts I used to beg and barter for. I like my snake and I don’t want to get rid of it. There’s been talk on this forum about these parts being lost and hopes that the VCA will step up to ensure that the molds and what not that make up our snakes will not disappear from the supply chain. I want those folks - the Viper vendors - who are so inclined to keep parts coming and I’m willing to pay a FAIR premium to ensure such. Of course, I don’t like paying premiums for parts, but I’d rather have the choice than no choice at all.

I wrote the quote that started this thread above.

The thing that needs to be understood about plastic molds and other tooling that manufacturers have created to make parts is that these items come with a HUGE legal overhead just like ViperJay indicates above. It's much more than just finding and buying the tooling.

For example, when I acquired the molds for some of the musical instrument parts we eventually brought back to the market, we had to purchase a $1,000,000 liability insurance policy assigned to our injection vendor to cover any damage or death the mold may cause should it inadvertently fail under pressure. In our case, we were lucky as the molds we found were found and bought in England. Because these molds were going out of the country, any legal fall back to seller was severed. If we had found these molds in the US I don’t think that we would have been able to get over the legal issues. It would have been just too expensive to make any amount of production a viable and profitable reality.

While I can’t say exactly what the VCA and DC would have to overcome to allow third parties to take over possession of mold and jigs, but I suspect that much of this is the same as I indicate above.

As a concerned Viper owner, this matter needs to be taken seriously by ALL Viper owners. I’ve personally seen this movie play out in my own personal experience – and my task was SMALL compared to rescuing an entire vehicle assembly package. It’s also my considered opinion that the VCA should have this issue at the VERY TOP OF THEIR LIST OF THINGS TO DO! I’m glad to hear that there are folks working at the VCA towards this end and of course I’m glad all of the Viper vendors are doing the same.

Aside from patronizing our Viper vendors which I fully intend to do, is there anything else constructive we as VCA members and Viper owners in general can do to ensure that the resources and commitment is maintained focused on this issue?

This is a HUGE task and should not be underestimated by anyone concerned about keeping Viper parts in the pipeline.

 

[94 RT/10 Black MAMBA]

I believe there is a Federal law that states that manufacturers MUST support (provide replacement parts) the cars sold in America for a period of ten years after it's first sold.

 

[tarfungo]

I thought so too, but have you tried to buy OEM dash parts for your car lately?

Just the same, any car older than a 95 is out of scope in just a few days... 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 2005!

 

[cayenne]

I'm seeing lots of post about plastic parts...I'm picturing dash boards...etc.

Is this the more predominate type of parts that are getting scarce...or is it also the parts relating to engine/drive/suspension....in other words...the mechanical side of the car that are disappearing?

C

 

[joe117]

I can see why DC wouldn't want to make a production run of parts for a low volume car like a Viper.

But why wouldn't they just hold on to the molds. Would anyone pay them enough for them to make it worth DC selling them?

There are people making carbon fiber replacements for dash parts right now. Seems like the price of the cf parts would limit what one could charge for a plastic replacement.

 

[tarfungo]

On the occasions I have gone to my local dealer for this part or that, I would say that half the time the part is not available. The items in question are what I would refer to as non-mechanicals such as dash parts, interior and exterior cosmetics replacement fasteners and such. The good news is that third parties are offering a lot of these items. Not OEM stuff, but certainly good stuff.

I have yet to run into any mechanical parts problems, but I also have not have any real mechanical issues so my experience here is limited.

For example, over the years some of the fasteners for my snake’s side sills have worked themselves loose and have been lost. You can’t get OEM replacements. But, they’re just screws. Snake –Oyl offers serviceable replacements. They are pricey, but I bought these anyway. Spending $20 for screws is not going to bankrupt me and I figure these folks will use the money to further add products to their inventory. I could have just gone down to the local hardware store and found serviceable replacements – and saved about $15.00!

My rear window is serviceable, but the rubber gasket is cracked. It’s a ‘look’ thing. You can’t just buy a new gasket, so you are looking at a new window. Okay, I go to the dealer. MSRP is $400! (Viper Tax) No longer in stock. On the open market NOS RT/10 windows are $1000.00 – or at least that’s what I have found.

This is all vanity. My real concern is if I ever get in an accident and really NEED these vanity parts. What then?

Bottom line, if you are interested in getting a Viper, just does it. Enjoy your Viper today. Nothing is forever and things are never perfect. For me this is half of the fun. (?) This is exactly why I have my snake. If you desire a car that is fairly rare there will be ramifications. You can’t have it both ways. I sit here wondering what I would replace my snake with if I had to for whatever reason. The only answer I can come up with is “Another Viper!”

For the record Cayenne, I got my snake as a direct result of being diagnosed with cancer at the ripe old age of 44. You see, I always told myself that someday when the kids are gone and all of that crap I would get my dream car. Well, one day I woke up and my world had changed. I realized that tomorrow is for losers. I had the car of my dreams within two weeks of being diagnosed. If I wanted a safe bet car with parts for days and years to come I would have bought a Corvette or a Mustang. If I wanted a car with tons of air bags, a cup holder and digital clocks I would have bought a BMW or an Audi. A Viper is so much more than any of this!!!

My suggestion to you is to do your research, pick a quality snake and go for it. Parts or not, you won’t be sorry.

 

[Cris]

Hmmm. So how much is a complete oem dash for a 95 worth? Some of us squirreled away many of the original parts.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

eleventy billion dollars!


The value of it rises daily, time to start hoarding parts away.

 

[tarfungo]

Basically, I’m thinking if us Gen I owners can hold on to our snakes for another 5 years or so, we’ll be able to part out our cars to send the kids off to college, buy a retirement home and go on vacations incessantly!!!

(It's a joke!)

 

[Jeff Torrey]

My guess is that the original parts vendors were forced to sign Copyright terms for a certain amount of time, and the terms have not yet expired .

My wishes are when the part stocks are depleted and the terms have expired... the vendors names will be released to the community and the aftermarket will exist. But... then we would all be living in a perfect world.

 

[tarfungo]

Maybe… but in my experience when molds or toolings are created, they are made specifically for and at the request of the client - which in this case would be DC. Usually the vendor retains the castings and tooling with an agreement that only the original client can request production runs. So technically, the client owns the tooling, but the vendor has physical possession and controls the same.

Vendors are VERY reluctant to release tooling and injection molds for any reason. They tend to retain these items for many years even past their original intended life use. This because of legal and potential liability issues – remember these parts go on a car. I have heard too many stories about injection molds being destroyed rather than a company turning these casts over to a third party.

The only way I can see that any Viper tooling or injection molds will ever be released to a third party vendor is by DC completely washing their hands of the items and turning over the production rights to the third party. You have to ask yourself, why isn’t DC just running new production runs on these items? They own the production rights and the tools have been paid for. Seems like a no-brainer moneymaker.

I suspect that there is not enough money in these items to make it worth DC’s time. In the scope of DC as an organization, selling Viper parts is probably a nuisance. Quite honestly, with only 15,000 or so total Vipers being produced over 10+ years compared to other models which are produced at that rate in just months, you can easily see why DC may find little desire to make Viper parts. These kinds of volume numbers don’t bode well for huge amounts of money to be made in aftermarket business despite our wranglings about a "Viper tax". My guess is that DC will just ignore all of this. My hope is that the opposite is true.

My experience is not with vehicle parts so; hopefully I have this all wrong?

 

[JKVIPER]

Someone from the VCA may want to approach Eckler's Corvette parts in Florida. They purchased all the old Vette tooling from GM and other suppliers and are authorized by GM to reproduce all sorts of vette parts(interiror trim, fiberglass, mechanicals for many different year corvettes).

They may have the financial ability to make the investment and extend the life of the hobby for us Gen I Gen II Viper owners.

 

[Jay Herbert]

I thought so too, but have you tried to buy OEM dash parts for your car lately?

Yep, one in my storage area right now

 

[Jay Herbert]

Basically, I’m thinking if us Gen I owners can hold on to our snakes for another 5 years or so, we’ll be able to part out our cars to send the kids off to college, buy a retirement home and go on vacations incessantly!!!

(It's a joke!)

Sadly, not a joke. I was talking to Paul Scharf, one of the biggest Viper dismantlers in the country/world a while back. A '92 landed in his lot about three months ago. Not a bad rebuild in the scheme of things.... I tried to buy it off him as I really would like a '92 at some point. He was not interested in selling it as it is more profitable parting out Vipers now than reselling them or rebuilding them

Looking at the "bright" (?) side, so many pile Vipers into immovable objects, there are plenty of used parts available, and the Vipers out and about are getting rarer

Like I said, many are beginning to make parts to replace the wear items from hoses to A/C condensors and radiators, so those of us that want to drive them should be fine for many years, also, most engine (internal) parts like lifters, pistons, rods, valves, cams, etc. are easy, made by folks like Clevite (one tough one one is the crank) The one I worry about are the gasket sets....

Rear end housing is unique, but guts are Dana 44 and super 44, tranny is Tremec six speed with Rockland Standard Rear supporting it 110%.

Several can stitch a whole now interior, so we are covered there...

Yes, some of the annoying plastic parts will be gold, but before screaming, have you tried to buy a dash pad for an '89 Dakota? Yes, if you want to restore a car that MILLIONS were made (AKA Mustang, Camero) repo parts are everywhere. We all know Vipers are not Mustangs....Hopefully with the VCA in the lead, we'll be able to minimize future issues with our Vipers. Now certainly is the time to identify the critical parts we'll need that are not covered..... any volunteers to start the list?

 

[IEATVETS]

I have a brand new dash that fits a 94 rt/10 in a box down in my basement, it has to be worth some serious bucks! I have a ton of gen1 parts laying around. I should put an add on the VCA site and see what I get for them. I even have a spare rear window...........with the seal!!

 

[propsail]

It would be nice if the VCA leaders would come in on this thread to share their thoughts on the matter.

 

[BLWNASP]

Start saving those wrecked and parted out vehicles. this will be one solution. And that will go for all Gen 1 and 2 Vipers.