B&B Complete Exhaust

[RSNAKE]

I am considering the B&B complete exhaust.

1 3/4" headers
3" cats and cat back, including X pipe rear section (can order the cats prewelded to the cat back from B&B)

What kind of power should this make?
How loud is it going to be compared to other systems and stock? My experience so far is that in order of sound level (assuming all systems using cats) from most to least quiet: stock, Borla, Corsa, TNT. I have only heard sound clips of a B&B from Sean Roe's web site.

What are the drawbacks of this system compared to others?

I have searched the site a lot and have not seen direct answers to these questions so I am asking them. I have only seen 1 guy post that he uses this system and seemed to make numbers similar to other systems I have seen given his other mods, but I would like more feedback.

Thanks

 

[monnieh]

Check with Sean Roe before you purchase anything. I think he may have some newer header designs that might make more power in the next couple of months.

 

[Mike Adams]

Dyno test done the week end here on a 1998 GTS (silver if that matters LOL ) produced dyno number of 453 rwhp with 355 gears.

This is with their cats. When installing a new system before dynoing you must have at least 300 miles on before. On new car I suggest switching out the computer to a 96 to 98 computer as it increase throttle response. I do not recommend no cats to anyone. Not only is it dangerous but annoys others around you

 

[Andy]

Why is no-cats dangerous?

 

[Mike Adams]

PS my new headers will have 4 02 sensor holes so you can use one hole on each side to check mixture with a wide band O2 sensor on the dyno

 

[99 R/T 10]

Why is no-cats dangerous?

Yeah, why? Enviroment? I don't have cats on my 96 R/T, and love the sound and increased performance. So what about all the late sixtys and early 70's cars? Sorry Mike, had to beat this dead horse again. One question for you, is there any way to upgrade the computer in my car to a 98 or do I have to get the mopar unit?

Mike

 

[jimandela]

I just did the B&B catback.. thanks MIKE
and randomtech cats and love it ... it is awesome!



Headers.. maybe next year.

 

[Mike Adams]

Fumes are very dangerous if the get in cabin. The converter is a 3 way cat and removes Carbon Monoxide. IF it leakes into the cabin at lights some how could make trip a little shorter (ie idling in traffic). Plus it is very unpleasant to others around you. I think the eviroment is more important that 10 hp

 

[MbnViper]

i have B&B complete exhaust no cats,and for me its awesome,its loud really loud , no check engine light (Roe sims waiting), and you can feel the power or maybe because its yellow i bought them from Roe Racing click the link for some pic's Click here for B&B Setup

 

[Daffy Duck Viper]

i have B&B complete exhaust no cats,and for me its awesome,its loud really loud , no check engine light (Roe sims waiting), and you can feel the power or maybe because its yellow i bought them from Roe Racing click the link for some pic's Click here for B&B Setup

I've never seen pictures of the B&B exhaust system. Very nice. Looks high quality. I like it. In your pics, is Viper_LS & Viper_LS2 showing the B&B side pipes or is that some other system? Oh, and thanks for the pics. A big help. Only thing better than pics is in person. Heh.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[MbnViper]

Daffy Duck Viper:

yes my B&B setup came with longer side pipes its standard B&B cat-back, but designed to slip directly onto the header collectors of B&B headers. no cats and no welding..etc.. if you want to keep your cats then check the picture b&b_cat-back-full i have some sound files too and they are awesome(with no cats) also check this sound file from roeracing.com

http://www.roeracing.emerchantpro.com/vendorimages/roeracing/B&Bheaders_nocat_newcatback.wav

hope this helps

 

[Daffy Duck Viper]

Thanks, MbnViper.
I appreciate the extra info you've provided. Yes, I did check out the b&b_cat-back-full pic, and saved it for future reference, and so I don't forget how much I like it. Thank you. There are quite a variety of exhaust systems consisting of headers, cats, cat-backs, and even tips - and ways of doing them: like having the cats or removing them. Anyway, when I was at the South Coast Slither, I saw the ends of several systems, and any of them, I don't care what kind they were, looked better when compared to the stock systems. But of those non-stock types, there were a few that had awesome looking tips, and when I heard them run, they sounded awesome. So I can only assume they had more than just aftermarket tips. It's not easy choosing a system. I've been reading on various types on the Viper forum for quite a while. No sooner do I think I know for sure what I want, some new info comes along, and I'm undecided all over gain. Heh-heh.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[Viper Specialty]

MIKE- will a 98 Computer work in an 02? or do you have to go Mopar? (or can a VEC-1 simply make one work like the other?)

 

[Mike Adams]

You can interchange a 96 up computer for an 02 I suggest 97 or 98 as it give better throttle repsonse. I or the dealer can program your vin # in the computer

 

[Viper Specialty]

what exactly is the difference between the 02 and the 97/98 computers? what progrsmming changed?

 

[ViperJoe]

HOLY COW..... what cam is that in there on that sound file

 

[Viper Specialty]

check out the sound file on B&B's webste... much better file.

 

[Daffy Duck Viper]

check out the sound file on B&B's webste... much better file.

Is this the correct website for B&B?...
http://www.bbtriflo.com/

Specifically...
http://www.bbtriflo.com/shopsite/vip.html

And why don't they have an exhaust system and headers for 1999+ Vipers? I thought the engines were the same, but for some internal changes. Would not this same exhaust system and headers work on 2000-2002 RT/10 & GTS Vipers?

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[Viper Specialty]

yep, thats correct. However, even with *** good that sound file it, it still doesnt capture how low, deep, and loud the system is.

I would suspect the years of application for the headers is a typo, they should fit fine. (perhaps they saw how Dodge switched from Manifolds to Tubular, and didnt realize they still bolted up the same...?)

 

[MbnViper]

installed B&B 1&3/4" Headers/Exhaust(No Cats) no problems,no check engine light and easy to install this is copy/paste from RoeRacing -- These headers are intended to fit modified or race use Vipers. Oxygen sensor wires do not need to be extended as the sensors are placed upstream, eliminating check engine lights on 2000 and newer models-- also check this file my car with B&B this is half throttle or my neighbors will scream..ummmh ya right who can hear them !!! i can't

(Save Target as)

http://www.geocities.com/mbnviper/Videos/Viper_BBNocats.mp3

 

[ViperJoe]

OK this is a B&B thread, but would someone please describe the sound dif between the B&B and the Corsa
Thanks

 

[RSNAKE]

Hopefully one of the tuners will post a more complete answer, but this is how I see them.

I assume that you are trying to compare just the cat back portions of the systems. You can get both systems in 3" stainless steel. They both have some form of a crossover pipe in the back.

The Corsa system has an "H" shaped cross pipe connecting the two exhaust pipes.

The B&B system has an "X" shaped cross pipe connecting the two exhaust pipes.

One would think that the X shape with less of a bend in the pipe would flow a bit better, but I have not seen any data to conclude one way or the other. It seems that the cross connection, in either case, helps to eliminate drone in the mid RPM range.

The Corsa system has 4 mufflers in it. 1 in each side sill and 2 in the back where the factory muffler is mounted.

The B&B system only has 2 mufflers.

I have yet to hear a B&B system in person (though I have ordered one and should have first hand experience soon), but every post that I have seen states that the B&B system is slightly louder than the Corsa system in all conditions, provided the rest of the exhaust systems are equal (ie with cats or without). This seems to make sense given the Corsa system's additional mufflers.

I have looked at numerous dyno sheets and can not draw any solid conclusions on one system making any more or less power than the other.

 

[ViperJoe]

I e-mailed Sean Roe as he sells both systems and he personally has the B&B on his car.
He likened the B&B to a deeper more muscular sound. From my Corvette experiences, on Z-06's the B&B was deeper and muscular sounding and the Corsa had that more higher pitched mechanical / techno sound, some would refer to as "exotic" sounding, but the Borla "Stinger" sounded best on a C5 IMHO. But we know that the Borla on a Viper has that dreaded drone (as do the Vettes with certain systems).
I will just have to catch a gathering of Snakes to hear several different systems and then commit, it's just too [******] subjective!

 

[Mike Adams]

I have found no huge differences in power between all the manufactures of cat back. My personal preference is for B&B as it is a little more throaty. Price is good on it. If you want to keep your sound levels down a bit I suggest Corsa. Both are great systems and make about the same HP.

As for headers again no huge diffences in preformance between manufacturers.

As for cats the factory cat is still the best working one I have seen. RSNAKE when you recieve you system you will see how the reworked cats are much better. The only thing that I would consider (NOT FOR HP REASONS) are ranmdom tech metal substrate cats only to keep the side sill cooler.

I have a 1998 car dyno'd with a Hennessy air box, B&B 1 3/4 headers custom factory cats and B&B cat back dyno at 453 rwhp.

I summery it is all a matter of preference "don't believe the hype". Is my thoughts. Every car will react different depending on many conditions.

 

[RSNAKE]

Finally got it back to the dyno today.

Stock Rear Wheel numbers - No Filters
HP = 410.2 TQ = 450.3

With complete B&B system 1 3/4" Headers, High Flow Cats, 3" Cat Back - no filters
HP = 423.4 TQ = 461.9

I am a little disappointed in these numbers. The owner of the dyno shop, Street Stuff, stated that to make the runs comparable due to conditions I would have to add about 10 more HP to the second run. The first run was made in late April and the temp in the shop was about 65 degrees and my car was cold. Today the shop temp was 88 degrees and the car was put on the dyno within minutes of driving to the shop so the engine was very hot. I asked him about the dyno correcting for conditions and he stated that it could only adjust for conditions within about a 10 degree window. Outside of that, the runs are not comparable.

The good news is that even with the conditions, with the mods the HP and TQ were higher at every point in the curve. Additionally the peak numbers don't show how much of a difference there really is. At the higher RPM the stock setup used to really drop off in HP. The mods have really extended the upper RPM breathing.

At 6000 RPM I gained 33 RWHP and 29 lbft over the stock set up.

I will have to see if this gets me into the 11's or not. My previous best before the mods was 12.22 @ 118 with a 1.92 60' time.

I think I may really benifit from a VEC1 also as I am running very rich. At 3000 RPM my A/F is 13.2 and drops to 11.3 by 6200 RPM.

How do these numbers look? Should I be making more HP than this with set up? Will this get me into the 11's? How much more HP would I make with a VEC1?

 

[ViperJoe]

OUCH! Thats a lot of cannoli's spent for 13 ponies :-(

Please report your strip #'s when you can

 

[pjb]

Re: B&B Complete Exhaust

i have a similar set up on my 97 (BB 1 3/4 headers, Roe Ovals, BB Cat back (X-over).

baseline -> 423.4 rwhp/465.4rwtq (S&B filters)
after --> 445.7rwhp/486.6rwtq (S&B, BB header/HF Cats/BB Cat back)

No matter what though, the sound absolutely ROCKS! the lumpy cam is also amplified even more with the exhaust

 

[RSNAKE]

I got back to the drag strip. Just as with the dyno, the air tonight was much more hot (about 20 degrees) and humid than during my previous trip to the track. Even so, there was a definite improvement. I will post more detail on the '99 RT/10 1/4 Mile Baseline Thread but here are the basics.

Previous best prior to install of complete B&B headers, high flow cats and exhaust (and B&M Ripper Shifter) was:

12.223 @ 118.23 with a 1.92 60' time

First night to the track post install:

12.056 @ 119.78 with a 1.838 60' time

followed by:

12.023 @ 118.19 with a 1.900 60' time

There is no doubt that the car is making more usable HP and TQ. I am still not sure exactly how much more. Anyone have any thoughts on typically how much more HP is required to drop your ET by .2 seconds?

I am convinced that the computer still has not adapted to the increased air flow properly, given that I was running so rich on the dyno compared to my previous dyno. I am further convinced that I will have to wait until this fall to get truly comparable numbers to equate for conditions.

In any case, I am going quicker and faster and the car is making more power and sounds better. The question still remains, was it worth it?

 

[BigCarrot]

I would guess that 20-25hp would drop a couple of tenths off.

 

[joe117]

I agree, 20-25hp = .2 - .25 sec in 1/4 mile.
That's about 2%. I don't think anyone can feel 2% of anything.