Clutch Problems/VIN Check

redsrt03

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Hello all.

I bought an '03 Viper new in April of this year. Yesterday I had to take it in because of the clutch slipping (the car had 4200 miles on it). I was wondering if my car was one of the ones built during the "pressure plate bolt torque" era. My VIN is 1B3JR65Z93V501790. Thanks for any info you guys can provide. BTW as you all know, the car is fantastic (when it is running right)and is well worth the money and/or aggravation. Also, I am having my car serviced at Northglenn Dodge (in the Denver metro area) and I will let you know what I think of their "service" when I get my car back.
 

SLICKSSS

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Redsrt, just ran your vin through recall notices.(dodge .com)

It says you have none on your car or exist under that vin number.
Congrats your o.k buddy.

Slicksss...
 
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redsrt03

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Thanks slicksss. I got a call from the Service dept this morning, and the guy said clutchs weren't covered by the warranty. After I pointed out the page in the warranty manual, he said he'd talk with the "Service Director" and get back with me. A while later he called back and said the clutch would be covered only if there was evidence of a defective part, like a pressure plate spring being broke, etc. I told him about the pressure-plate bolt torque issues and how other Viper owners have had their clutchs replaced under the DC warranty. He said I should contact DC for their approval and get a reference number. I sent an E-mail to Dodge, but haven't received a reply yet. Has anyone else had to go through this with pre-mature clutch failure?
 

SilverSnake

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Redsrt,

About two weeks ago i had three pressure plate bolts turn up missing on my 04. The dealer replaced the whole clutch assembly under warranty. I replaced it with much superior components from RPS witch the dealer installed for me. This is your chance to do the same. My car was built 12/03, The viper tech told me that was the eighth srt they seen this year. also my damper bolt fell out at 800 miles. The clutch problem happend at 2100 miles.

Robert
 
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redsrt03

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SilverSnake,

Man I wish I had your dealer! Northglenn Dodge hasn't responded to any of my E-mails or phone calls (apparently they don't want to fix the clutch under warranty, less bucks for them). This afternoon I am going to visit them in person and will probably bring my Viper back home (slipping clutch and all) and pay them their $70.00 "check out" fee, rather than let them play their games. Does anyone know of a good Dodge dealer in the Denver area for working on Vipers? I am thinking of Lithia of Cherry Creek. Any comments?
 

quick2tr

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Curious, has anyone here had to change the stock Gen3 clutch for wear reasons? And if so, how many miles did you get?

I got 7k and stock clutch grabs the same 0k.
 

Skip White

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Do an upgrade on the cutch. You may not want the aggresive style that me and few others are using, but don't waste time putting a stocker back in the car. They just won't hold up, and as I've said a million times, they slip everytime under load. They just can't take the torque put on them with a 3.07 rear in the car. There are many inexpensive solutions for this.

Skip
 
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redsrt03

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My timing has been really bad the last couple of weeks. Yesterday I went to Northglenn Dodge to talk to the Service Director (Phil Stieber). He took me into the shop and showed my the clutch disk and flywheel. Of course there was hotspots on the flywheel and parts of the clutch disk was worn down to the rivets. That was no surprise to me, seeing how badly the clutch was slipping when I brought it in. He said they found no evidence of loose or missing bolts and no damage of any other kind, so they couldn't fix it under warranty. Since I have been driving sticks since I was 16 (started with a 3-speed on the column) and I am now 51, I know how to drive a manual (i.e. don't ride the clutch, don't slip the clutch to hold on a hill, don't use the transmission to brake (brake pads/shoes are cheaper and easier to replace than a clutch disk), etc.), so I know my driving habits didn't cause the excessive wear. At my insistence, the Serivice Director called the Dodge Factory rep for the Colorado area and explained the situation and what he had found. The rep told him DC would not honor the warranty for the clutch. The Service Director then called the Dodge field technician, and described the situation and also mentioned some of the clutch issues I have found on the VCA forums (i.e. missing or loose bolts, air or boiling hydralics, etc.) The field tech said that the hydralics could cause a problem like I have on my Viper, but there was no way to check the hydralics without removing the lines from the car, and by removing them, you probably would cover up any defects relating to heat, etc. He did a nation-wide check and said that there were no known or reported problems relating to the Viper's clutch, so again the repair would not be covered by DC! (BTW, although I was present when the Service Director made the calls, I could only hear his side of the conversation, since he wasn't on the speaker phone). The Service Manager than said he would call the Viper Group today and see if they had any knowledge of premature clutch failures on GEN III Vipers. Well he called me a few minutes ago and said the Viper Group hadn't heard of any problems with Viper clutchs either.

So I can only conclude that:
a) all of you guys are just making up the stories about clutch failures and DC covering the repairs.

or

b) that DC is playing dumb,

or

c) the Service Director is just putting on a show for me!

Anyways, for the lowly sum of $1800.00, I am getting the clutch disk, flywheel, and pressure plate replaced.

So it's probably too late for me to do an after market upgrade (since the Dealer has already torn down the Viper and ordered the parts).

BTW some of you had mentioned about bad Viper techs. Well I talked to the Viper tech who tore down my car and he said he hated working on Vipers, because all the owners wanted the work done for free (i.e. under warranty) and he doesn't make any money when doing warranty work. According to him (in Colorado anyway), DC pays him an hourly rate of about 1/3 of what he gets when doing non-warranty work. He said he is only paid for the established times (i.e. 3/10ths of an hour for oil/filter change, etc.) regardless of how long it takes him to do the work. That might explain why some of you are getting holes poked into the leather seats of your Vipers. I know I'm going to look my car over real close when I go in to pick it up (I took pictures of everything just before I brought it in) and if I find holes or dings, somebody is going to be held accountable.

Well thanks for you guys input and if you have any ideas on how to get DC to accept the job as warranty work, please let me know.
 

Skip White

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RedSRT, where was the engagement point on your clutch? In other words, how far from the floor was the peddle before it began to engage? It should have been in the middle. If it was close to the floor, then this is a hydro problem, and it would wear out the clutch very quickly.

If you have not installed the $1800.00 setup, DONT, For that we can get you an unbeivable setup for the car. Stop them now. You will have to go through this again.

The setup I'm talking about would include an aluminum segmented flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, and disc.

All for less money?

Call them up and tell them you don't want them putting that junk in the car, and them charging you $1800.00 for it, and as far as the flywheel having hot spots on it, well they all do, and if one was worried about it, a very mild resurfacing would make it like new. I'm sure it's not warped.

They should have warrentied this, but clutches are touchy subject.

Skip White

ps, the clutch they are putting in the car, is a Luk Clutch. The whole kit is only $175.00 not including the flywheel. It is the exact one the car came with new.
 

womsterr

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From my research I have seen only 04 with the pressure plate bolts backing out. Havne't heard of an 03 yet.
 

redsrt

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Skip,

Like I said earlier my timing really ***** the last couple of months. I talked to the dealer and he said the parts were already in and I would have to pay a restocking fee, plus the labor would be the same whether they put in the new clutch and flywheel or put back the old ones. So I guess, I'll go ahead and get if fixed.

What I should have done, is checked with the Viper Club first and once the dealer said it wasn't covered in warranty, I should have just driven back home.

DC came back and said that the Central Business Office's decision to not honor the warranty since I couldn't prove it was a defective part/assembly or etc. was the correct decision.

The Viper was the first American car I have bought in 28 years (I bought a Chevy new in 1976, had all kinds of problems out of the box, dealer never did fix it properly) and since then I have bought 5 new Toyotas. Never had a problem with warranties, because the damn things never broke. I put 170K miles on one, and about 70K or so miles on the other 4, and I still have a 1996 T100 with 50,000 miles that I use for towing. Never had a problem with their clutches (although I did change out the clutch disk at 120k miles on my first Toyota just as a precaution.

Yet I buy an $85K Dodge and the damn thing goes out in less than 4200 miles and its my fault. DC warranty decisions **** big time.

My wife is due for a new car and I was thinking it might be cool to get her a bright red SRT-4. Now I know it will be something Japanese. Way to go Detroit!

Well, the next time my clutch goes, I will be sure and check with the VCA crowd before I replace anything.

Thanks for your responses.
 

redsrt

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Service guy called and said the flywheels on national back order. I think I want to go to a better clutch. Can anyone recommend a good RPS clutch kit for my Viper, where to buy it and price, and where in the Denver metro area would be a good place to get it installed?

I am going to try and either get the dealer to install it or just pay the dealer for the labor spent tearing it down and get a tow truck to haul it to a reputable Viper repair shop and get it installed there.

If you can help, please let me know ASAP. Thanks.
 

SilverSnake

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PM Skip White or go to his site http//www.provipermods.com
or call him. He has helped me many times with good info and great prices on product. He owns a srt just like all of us. The advise you get from Skip is first hand instead of a sales person that doesn't even own a viper or tryed their own parts out. He can get you quote on the RPS system it's worth every dollor :2tu:

Robert
 
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redsrt03

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Called the dealer and they said they would install the RPS clutch and flywheel. Skip White is putting together a quote for me. I'm thinking of a setup like SilverSnake, but
I'm not sure if I would be better off with a street disk or the puck disk. Can anyone tell me what to expect between the two? Is the "chatter" I read about a vibration, a lurching, or just noise?

Thanks.
 

SilverSnake

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I have the six puck disc. You will notice it chatters at low speeds ( parking lots & leaving stop lights slowly )
The chatter is a lurching and a vibration, like when you release the clutch at 500rpms. The six disc needs more rpm's of the line more than the stock disc.


Robert
 
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redsrt03

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I went ahead and ordered the RPS clutch and flywheel. I'll let you know how it turns out. BTW I still think Dodge builds shoddy cars and their Customer Assistance is worthless. Still, I understand they have a ~245,000 vans they have to replace the radios on for a recall, so mayber there is justice in this world! (Gloat)
 
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redsrt03

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Got my RPS Clutch and Flywheel in today. I called the dealer to let him know I was bringing them in, and he asked me if he should go ahead and order throwout bearings and a pilot bearing. I asked him why, since their technician found nothing wrong with clutch except for disk and flywheel wear due to my assumed bad driving.

He then said most people had them replaced when they get a clutch job and it was only another $40.00 bucks or so.

I replied that most people don't have to get a new clutch installed in a new car after only 4000 miles. So unless there was something wrong with the assembly or parts the pilot and throwout bearings should be good as new (since they are almost new). Surely my bad driving wouldn't destroy the pilot bearing and throwout bearings?

Any thoughts?
 

SilverSnake

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I had them replace everything when i had mine done @ 2100 miles. For forty bucks i would do it no questions ask.

Robert
 

Skip White

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There is absolutly no reason to replace the throw out bearing, and pilot bushing, on a new car. Sure the mechanic will replace them on a car that has 30,000 or more miles on it. I really don't want the pilot bushing messed with, as it can be put in wrong very easily. Do have them add a dab of grease to it, as mine was nearly dry after two clutch changes.

Save the money on these items, and leave those items alone. You then for sure know they were working fine before this.

Hydro system can be left alone also on a new car.

I don't care if they only cost $5.00 those items have been known to last 200,000 miles on a car. $40.00 seems low for that throwout bearing. I thought it was much more.

Redsrt, once you learn more about the car, it is easier to understand why things are the way they are. This site has been priceless for me and others when it comes to problems with the car. By the way find a good garage to work on your car, and shy from the dealer on things like a clutch change. I pay $150.00 to $200.00 for the labor on this. The car is very easy to work on.

You will never see the build quality of a Benz with this car, well is some areas, you will, or the reliability of a Honda/Toyota, but nor are you paying for that.

Learn more about the car, and fear not. This is one of the simplest cars in the world to fix or modify. Carrol Shelby made that statement years ago and I now see he was right.

Skip White

Skip White
 

redsrt

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Skip,

Thanks again for the good advice! I'm going to have to buy
you a beer one of these days. Ever try Newcastle Brown Ale?
It turns out the Service Manager at Northglenn seems to be
a good guy (it's just his job to "sell" as much service as
the customer will buy).

The techs at the Service Dept were really impressed with
RPS flywheel, disk, and pressure plate. I should be getting
my Viper back tomorrow! (Gonna cost 657.00 bucks for the
labor and "shop supplies" though). Anyone know of good
Viper mechanic in the Denver metro area?

Thanks again.
 
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