Dealer said wheel hop is normal, does everyone have it ?

Viper IV

Enthusiast
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
148
Reaction score
0
Location
East Bay Area, Calif
I got my car back from the dealer and they said my engine alignment was out 3 degrees. (from the cam bolt recall I guess) The wheel hop is better by 25% but it's still rediculously bad. They told me they drove another 04 and it had the same problem er..."drove the same and appeared normal for the SRT".

Does everyone's SRT have wheel hop that's not modified the suspension, springs or whatever to eliminate it ?
 
OP
OP
V

Viper IV

Enthusiast
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
148
Reaction score
0
Location
East Bay Area, Calif
When you step on the gas the wheels bounce around while spinning. They don't just spin smoothly, it shakes the whole car and the shifter almost out of your hand.
 

Franko

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Posts
213
Reaction score
0
Location
San Diego, CA
This wheel hop has really become an issue for me. It's great having all this torque but it's not fun looking or feeling like an idiot when you try to have some fun.

I hope i don't have to spend thousands on my end for the factory mistake.
 

Vic

VCA Venom Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2000
Posts
6,763
Reaction score
0
Yes, I know that Gen2 Vipers wheel hop. Depends on what type of pavement, tire pressure, tire condition, throttle use, etc. But generally they all wheel hop. Don't have any answers for you, but your dealer is being straight with you.

*edit* I see you have a Gen3. You have to ask someone else about the Gen3, I don't know enough about them.
 

ARMORGOD

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 18, 2003
Posts
352
Reaction score
0
Location
Yo momma\'s house
My '04 has NO wheel hop. Hasn't done it on even one occasion. My old ZO6 had some occasional wheel hop. I sympathize with how frustrating it can be.
 
OP
OP
V

Viper IV

Enthusiast
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
148
Reaction score
0
Location
East Bay Area, Calif
Bryon
Are you running the stock tires ? Mine don't hop when
cold, just when they are warmed up a bit. I've had so
many suggestions to switch tires to eliminate it. Dealer
should be able to correct this problem. I've heard
it from too many people. Some have it and some don't.
Just trying to get a feel by responce how many are out
there with this issue. Dealer also told me DC Tech support
is aware of this and working on a cure.
I'm taking it back into another dealer next week for a
second opinion.
 

Skip White

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 15, 2001
Posts
867
Reaction score
0
Location
Kingsport TN
There have been several posts on this subject lately. Do a search.

Some people don't have wheel hop, and most do. Since the cars are nearly identical, I'd say tire pressure, and most of all, the road surface. If on a slippery pavement, you simply can't hook enough to encourage wheel hop, and on a great surface they stay planted. The drag strip is the worse place to tear up your car, as the track has to much variation in traction. It goes from extremely good to fair, and this can really get you in trouble. Heated up slicks don't have much of a problem. We've all encountered roads that have these characteristics. Wheel hop is the tires attempt to hook up, but when they break loose they unload on the suspension, and this starts an osillation in the suspension. My car has nearly zero wheel hop, but so many things have been changed on mine to acheive this. Your best bet if you want to leave your car mostly stock, is to modulate your throttle till you overrun the ability of the engines torque to do this. The mods that I've done really have so many other advantages, as a matter of fact, wheel hop was not the primary reason they I done these.

Tire temp is very important, and tire pressure also. Someone above claimed their tires don't wheel hop when cold, well they must be spinning like mad, and can't even hook enough to hop. When you spin to much, this is when you risk severe wheel hop, for when the tires catch hold, they are going to hop so much worse.

If you look in some of my past posts, there is some good info from me and others on this subject.

Skip White
 
OP
OP
V

Viper IV

Enthusiast
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
148
Reaction score
0
Location
East Bay Area, Calif
Thanks Skip
I know we've talked about this many times but it's
dangerous when your car start going sideways while doing
this wheel hop. I can control a normal burnout slide but
why do some do it and some don't ? That's
the $90k question !!! Spring tension, tire pressure, alignment, tire batch..I don't know but why should I consider building my car with more HP if it's going to break something doing this hop thing. I can't get the
power to the ground. They don't hop at the track on other
vipers I've seen. I'll buy new tires if that's the cause but I need more input from my friends here at VCA to help eliminate it.
Thanks for all the replys
Best Regards
Bob
 

Skip White

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 15, 2001
Posts
867
Reaction score
0
Location
Kingsport TN
Bob, ditch the tires for starters. They have more bad points to them than good ones.

Customize your alignment, this will help in a dozen different ways. Get a Smart Tire system in the car, if you are running conv. tires, but this system also will allow you to monitor your pressure and tire temp. It's a very narrow tire pressure and temp range that wheel hop is increaed or reduced. I really wish the drag radials on the market had more sizes, but the one they do have for the SRT wide rim is actually one full inch smaller than the oem tire, and the oem tire is small enough as it is. Drag radials when new would shock you as to there traction, and they are speed rated.

You are so right about not wanting to build up the hp, without addressing these issues. I build from front to back, when doing mods. I really hate to see a twin turbo car that is stock aside from this. It just doesnt make sense to spend all that money and run into so many problems. I would really hate to take someones money for such an upgrade without insisting on doing many other upgrades to the car.

Change out the tires, and go with oem size or bigger may be available. This is a must. I gotta say one good thing about the runflat, it does offer piece of mind against a flat or blowout.

Skip White
 
OP
OP
V

Viper IV

Enthusiast
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
148
Reaction score
0
Location
East Bay Area, Calif
Skip
I had a flat 10 years ago on my Ferrari at 130 MPH (no run
flats) big deal. I heard a humming sound from the Z rated
tired and pulled over to check the noise. I had three
chicks stop to offer me a ride (or more)to help. Run flats
don't impress me as I don't put enough miles on my play cars to worry about a flat tire.

I don't want to change my wheels or tires until my wheel hop thing is corrected. I don't want to give any dealer any reason to blam aftermarket wheels or tires for an
engineering problem they have not solved yet.

Thanks for your reply
Bob

BTW...I know there are dealers on this site that may have
some input on what they have found. Please jump in with any
advice you may have.

Regards
 

ARMORGOD

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 18, 2003
Posts
352
Reaction score
0
Location
Yo momma\'s house
Bob,

I'm running my stock tires. And they don't give me any problems, whether they're cold or hot. They either hook up and GGOOOOOO, or the just spin out of control (BUT NO HOP). Sure do hope you get you're problem fixed.
 

Skip White

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 15, 2001
Posts
867
Reaction score
0
Location
Kingsport TN
Bob, if your car is wheel hopping more than it should, I'd check to see if one of your shocks are blown. Really I've never had an SRT do excessive wheel hop, but all of them will do wheel chatter, and that's the precursor to wheel hop. As far as the dealer or factory correcting it, that won't happen, unless your car is doing it more than others. The nature of the SRT, as a sport handling car, with the independent rear susp. is mostly to blame, and the sport tuned suspension.

You should consider changing out the tires, as this is definetly part of the problem.

Check the D.O.T. date on your tires, they should not be over two years old, as a matter of fact, their is a dramatic difference in a 6 month old tire, and a two year old one. I've been amazed when changing them out. Never buy a tire thats two years old, unless it's going on your trailer. They are safe, but the rubber compound is very hard.

Skip White
 

ViperGMC

Viper Owner
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Posts
319
Reaction score
1
Location
TN
Here is an observation. I never got wheel hop before I installed a supercharger. Now I can get extremely bad. It happens when I arbitrarily stomp on the gas without paying attention to speed and RPM. I have never gotten hop on the track, before or after the SC.
 

supratime

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Posts
78
Reaction score
0
I just just got back from driving the viper. 41 degrees out. Got Wheel hop when I first drove the car. After a minute or two the Wheel hop was gone. Maybe just a tiny bit of wheel hop at 5500-6000 rpm I do have k&n and upgraded computer so I have a bit more power on the high end.

Cal
 
OP
OP
V

Viper IV

Enthusiast
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
148
Reaction score
0
Location
East Bay Area, Calif
Thank you all for your replies so far. I have tried tire
pressure from 25 up to 35 with no diffrence at any
pressure.
I get the wheel hop from 1500 rpm up, 1st & 2nd. Don't
have to stomp it hard, just throttle up and when the tires
break loose they are all over the road (of course not
putting any torque to the ground). It's so bad it's going
to break something. This cannot be right.. some do and
some don't. Skip, yes I had dealer change rear shocks and
no better.
 

Viper X

Former VCA National President
VCA Officer
Joined
May 1, 2004
Posts
3,471
Reaction score
2
Viper IV,

I also have wheel hop or chatter as Skip calls it. I have also varied the air pressure in my tires and find it best at about 25 psi cold. I believe the biggest factor is the road surface followed by the extremely stiff run flats. Next would probably be the suspension / alignment / adjustment. I'm planning on changing tires / wheels first. I would really like a dual purpose tire with better traction on the track and street, speed rated.

Maybe Skip can make some suggestions?

Dan
 

JoeBob

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Posts
65
Reaction score
0
Location
Gadsden, AL
I have 3.73's with Al flywheel and I get hop from time to time hot or cold depending on road surface. In the '04 & '05 cars!
 
OP
OP
V

Viper IV

Enthusiast
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
148
Reaction score
0
Location
East Bay Area, Calif
Here's some interesting news about the wheel hop and a pleasant surprise.
Had my Viper at the shop yesterday and they did a 4 wheel alignment. Tech showed me the spec's before and after. They were all way out of adjustment (especially the rears). Cured about 90% of the wheel hop and that's only depending on the road surface if it gets any.
Here's another plus, my car does not wander all over the road anymore when I drive over a variation in the pavement.
I was smiling all the way home driving over any grind marks or lane variations just to see if would do the darting left or right thing we all know about. No more tight grip on the edge of my seat driving. Now that's a plus !!!
I had to call three dealers to find a Viper tech that could do the 4 wheel alignment. Even they were amazed after their road test with the diffrence.
Now I can feel comfortable with tire and wheel change and MORE POWER.
 

Skip White

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 15, 2001
Posts
867
Reaction score
0
Location
Kingsport TN
I also experianced the same results as Viper Iv acheaved when I did my custom alignment. These cars are out from the factory, and few people realize it. You really need to have a good alignment shop that will spend at least two hours on this. Seems to take that long to do it right.

I'm really amazed at the difference. I've been doing this to the last five Vipers I've owned. You really need to go to the outer edge of range limits to get optimal results. This will increase the tire wear a bit, but it's worth it.

Skip W.
 

nopokerface

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 23, 2004
Posts
14
Reaction score
0
Skip and viperIV,

What specs did you align to? Can you help me find a good alignment shop in Austin/Houston/SA? Why was a 4-wheel alignment necessary? This hop thing is driving me a little crazy.

Currently I'm stock. I've played with tire pressure but had little real success.

Help!
 

Skip White

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 15, 2001
Posts
867
Reaction score
0
Location
Kingsport TN
you do not have to go to the Dodge Dealer for a good alignment. You need to find a shop that has a very up to date alignment rack, (laser)

On the rear you need to camber the wheels a bit on the positive side. Go right to the edge of the range limits or a bit past. When under hard accelleration the wheels tend to camber inward, (negative camber) if you build in a bit of positive camber this will balance out perfectly, and not effect the drive, nor will it wear the tires to much.

On the front you want to do the oppisite of the above, as this will let the car drive great when accellerating as the front tends to lift, and camber out,(postive) to much. Believe it or not this negative setting will help the car drive better when cruising, and take away the dartiness. As for the toe setting this used to be a big issue with GTS, not so with the SRT. Go dead center of the oem range limits. The most difficult setting to get right is the castor. I swear it takes up to one full hour to get it perfect, and make shure they do this. I say tip em a $20 spot in advance and tell them you want this part of the alignment perfect. This will make the car drive great.

Do an alignment like this and you will not know your in the same car. The accentuated negative front camber, may feel a bit lazy to you at first, but the car will drive over all better, This I promise.

Rear castor should not be out on these cars unless they have been wrecked or curbed hard. Most Dodge dealers don't even have the castor tool to set this, so don't worry about that setting. It's hardly ever out. If it is the car will track very badly.

expect 5 percent more tire wear. No bad really. This is not an aggresive alignment. The wheel hop is in part caused when the car squats and the rear tires camber in to much. This really causes you to loose traction, as youre tire foot print becomes smaller. and the tire gets in and out motion going on.

This is the best $89.00-$119.00 mod you will ever do to your car, and I've mentioned this many times, and few people have inquired about it. Ever notice the negative camber on some race cars.

Skip W
 

nopokerface

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 23, 2004
Posts
14
Reaction score
0
Thanks skip.

Do you happen to have the actual degree settings? I looked in the owners manual and couldn't find them. I haven't purchased the service manual yet.

Can anybody help with a texas alignment shop? I bought the car at maxwell dodge in Austin and will probably end up going back there if I can't find any other options.

Thanks
 

GTS Bruce

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
3,328
Reaction score
0
Location
Orchard Park,NY,USA
My PU truck tends to get rear end hop when it starts to get bogged down in something deep.Quite normal for a solid axle rear end. GTS Bruce
 

Skip White

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 15, 2001
Posts
867
Reaction score
0
Location
Kingsport TN
The alignment shop will have the specs in there data base. Plint this post out for them and they will understand what to do. Make sure and find a good shop to do this. Not nessesarily the dealer.

I'm out of town and don't have the specs with me at the moment.

Skip
 
OP
OP
V

Viper IV

Enthusiast
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
148
Reaction score
0
Location
East Bay Area, Calif
His original specs showed how far off my rears were, example the LR was set at 0.39 for Toe and -0.2 for Camber. Look below where the specified range is supposed to be. All the specs were way off !!!

These are the specs my dealer used and it took him 3 hours to get it as close as possible all within range.

LF
Specified Range
Caster -0.05 / -0.01
Camber 5.5 / 6.5
Toe -0.01 / 0.15

RF
Specified Range
Caster -0.05 / -.01
Camber 5.5 / 6.5
Toe -0.01 / 0.15

Front
Specified Range
Cross Camber -0.2 0.2
Cross Caster -0.3 / 0.3
Total Toe -0.03 / 0.31

LR
Specified Range
Camber -0.9 / -0.5
Toe -0.17 / / 0.25

RR
Specified Range
Camber -0.9 / -0.5
Toe -0.17 / / 0.25

Rear
Specified Range
Total Toe -0.33 / 0.51
Thrust Angle 10.6 / 0.09
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
153,247
Posts
1,682,342
Members
17,742
Latest member
Mpcc
Top