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I almost made a mistake...and what a dealer experience!

Discussion in 'RT/10 and GTS Discussions' started by terminator02, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. terminator02

    terminator02 Viper Owner

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    OK my first real sports car (hence my screen name) was a 2003 Cobra. It was supposed to come out in 02 (and it did but as an 03 model) with the code name Terminator; so "Terminator02." It was sonic blue, 390hp (underrated) from the factory..more like 420hp and it was 34,750 out the door (xplan price day 1). This sonic blue cobra was a complete joy and really got me into cars. I put maybe 34,000 miles from 02-06 and sold it for 24k on ebay which was a great price at the time.

    I have had my 2000 ACR since 2009 and while it's had it's fair share of problems, I have been fortunate to find good fixes from good people on the forums. I have toyed around with getting another car that has a warranty and less worries (scratches, fixes, etc). I personally love the 2013-2014 Shelby GT500s. 662hp from the factory, a decent interior and great options but has a sticker that's quite expensive (for a guy like me). I knew the invoice of the car and I went to go negotiate and see if the numbers could make sense. While my viper was paid in cash day 1, I do have a payment on a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee so I have to be mindful of taking on a second payment.

    They offer me 25,000 for the car! They admitted they didn't know much about the car and I told them that, outside of a custom exhaust, this is a stock 2000 1 of 35 solid red ACR with every item still on the vehicle. I tried explaining how hard it is to find ACR cars to begin with, let alone $25,000 to a dealer. I feel these cars have been going up in value lately and are an attractive option for people that just can't swing the price of the new 2013s but want to get into a viper.

    So I will sadly admit to the forums I almost made a mistake today of letting go of a viper to get into a mustang. But that 662hp, warranty and cheap mod market was temping. I was willing to let it go for 35k which I felt was a very fair trade in price. I'm sure people would buy this car for that price any day and twice on Sunday!

    I can't believe how expensive these Shelby's are and it's not like they are selling like hot cakes. OK I admit it; this was my Saturday. Let the bashing begin:) 2000acr.jpg viper.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2013
  2. pony23

    pony23 Enthusiast

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    I am a Shelby guy (selling my car now) and looking to get into a viper. I know I will get it from my Ford buddies but I don't care. My 2010 Shelby had 680 rwhp and almost the same torque. It had a Ford whipple kit on it which made it scary fast. The 2013's make awesome power for cheap. Only down fall is that people around you won't get that Viper whiplash. The Shelby doesn't turn the heads accept from guys that know what they are looking at.

    It's your call in the end. I personally would sell the viper on the side and then buy the Shelby if that's what you want. It is pretty easy to find the Shelby's in whatever combo you want.
     
  3. denniskgb

    denniskgb Enthusiast

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    Absolutely agree 100%. Sell your acr privately and take your time get the right money for it. As far as Shelby it's cookie cutter car that blends with any other new body style mustang.
     
  4. terminator02

    terminator02 Viper Owner

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    You know what amazes me about the cobras/shelby's; the resale value. I hada 2003 sonic blue terminator and on their marketplace for selling 03-04s, the 2000-8000 mile stock examples go for about 26-29k. The MSRP was 34,750 dollars. The 2000 ACR went for about 80k-88k. The low mile 5000-10k stock examples go for about 50k. The viper depreciation is much more than I think they should be! I know every car owner feels like their car is "worth more." It just seems like people who shouldn't have gottten in the cars in the first place (bought when the market completely tanked and then couldn't afford to maintain and keep it) started selling these cars for next to nothing. Now everyone expects the car to be sold for damn near nothing.

    Another thing I notice when perusing their forums it that when owners are selling their car for a high asking price they get nothing but "beautiful car GLWS" instead of "you are 5k too high, you need to lower the price." I really think we, as a community, should start to realize we are sitting on cars that not only were low production to begin with, but are even lower production now with 1/2 of them comopletely totaled. I think 200 ACRs were built each year from 99-02? that would be about 800 gen II ACRs in the world. How many still exist? 400-600? How many still have the BBS wheels and racing harnesses?

    just some things I have thought about lately. I can't count how many times people ask what year my car is and then look in shock at how many miles are on the car and how "new" it looks. 27xxx miles on a 2000 ACR and it's like I have the equivalent of a 200,000 mile Jeep Grand Cherokee. It will be interesting to see how the prices go when more and more people look at the new 2013+ Vipers and debate getting into the Gen II for a much lower barrier to entry.
     
  5. Indy

    Indy Enthusiast

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    Dealer's will give you nothing for a trade-in. Sell it yourself and then buy your dreamcar. Personally, I would rather go and get a Gen3 or 4 used if you want more power than a mustang, but everybody has a different taste. One thing is certain, most people won't be able to tell a GT500 from a V6 version Stang....
     
  6. terminator02

    terminator02 Viper Owner

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    Well I don't buy a car based on what other people think it is or what it's worth or I would never give up this car as most people think it's a new 100K viper. And personally, I'm indifferent to that view. I'm just a working middle class guy. I wouldn't buy the Shelby for any other reason than I do really like the performance mustangs and I personally think the Shelby is a great looking ride. However, at 60k, even with a sale of mine at 37ish, I can't say I like it THAT much to offset the difference. I can't say I like ANY car that would offset the difference and I am not in a position to really spend a fair amount of money (finanaced) since I am financing a 2012 Grand Cherokee already. It was an entertaining thought as I COULD do it; it just wouldn't have been wise. No harm looking though. But to those that really take to the notion that the Shelby is "just a mustang" I really think you should re-evaluate that opinion. It, by most people's measure of aesthetics, looks great. It has a great interior, ridiculous performance and actually runs just fine on courses. I think the ZL1 is a great car as well but I just can't stand the interior. There are a lot of very attractive cars out right now but I think the best thing for me at this point is to consider myself lucky that I drive such a nice car when only months ago I thought it was beyond repair until an awesome viper member helped sort my car out with what happened to be a very simple fix..which is why I decided to buy a year membership for the VCA. However, my post above does raise some interesting points about values and the way people on this forum speak to car owners selling compared to the SVT forums. It's a night and day difference and the positivity in their selling market place is something many people here would be wise to take note of.
     
  7. slysnake

    slysnake Enthusiast

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    I didn't know they made the cobra in 2003.

    1968_shelby_cobra-pic-6230697819627859123.jpg
     
  8. Camfab

    Camfab Enthusiast

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    If I had extra cash, I'd be hoarding up as many ACR's as I could get my hands on. It's going to take at least 20 yrs. before you see these things going crazy. The reason prices are low to begin with (Vipers in general) is that so many people bought these as collector cars to begin with. When these same people who believed the be all end all car that they had in storage got beat by a Vette and the Ford GT, it was time to dump them. Lots of cars on the market equals a major drop in prices. 20 yrs. from now I think you'll see a different story. You've got to look at yourself as to why prices have dropped. Once you've obtained what may at one time seemed unattainable, and once your saddled with the costs of maintaining an old car.........well the luster goes away. Besides if your a HP guy, the Mustang destroys it and its brand new. Hard to argue with that. No point in keeping something that doesn't really make you happy. You got it, it was great, now your over it. Their's no shame in that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  9. NI-KA

    NI-KA Enthusiast

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  10. 96GTS

    96GTS Enthusiast

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    I bought my wife's 2010 plum crazy SRT-8 Challenger shortly after returning from Iraq in 2011. She liked the 2013 (same color) with the 392, so I asked what they'd give us on trade-in. Her car is in excellent shape with only 4,100 miles, and they came back with $28K and WOULD NOT budge on the price for the 2013. Needless to say the didn't sell a car that day.

    Sell the car your self and forget about trading it in.
     
  11. Viper Club HQ

    Viper Club HQ Viper Club of America Business Office VCA Member

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    As a VCA member classifieds here are free if you decide to sell .

    Non-VCA members classified ads are $30.
     
  12. terminator02

    terminator02 Viper Owner

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    I've decided to proudly KEEP the viper. The reality is, even with a patient private sale for the best dollar I could get, there is nothing I could pay the difference on and feel 'happy' about. A fair private sale would be between 37-39k for an original, no accident, moderate mileage ACR with all original ACR parts (BBS wheels are harder and harder to find on ACR cars). So let's look at my options:
    1. A used 2006 low mileage gen III coupe for about 55-60k: It will be about as fast as my Gen II but feel slower. It won't evoke nearly the same "feel" as knowing I have a gen II aesthetically. Is that worth 20k more to me personally? Nope.

    2. A used higher mileage Gen IV coupe for about 65-70k. Very fast, much better car overall. Still doesn't have that look and I wouldn't feel good driving around with a big monthly payment as I already have a 2012 Grand Cherokee I am financing.
    3. New Stingray vette. Very nice overall car. I like it. In a few years though, they will be all over the road and I don't know how much I will like it. Plus I know they will be selling for a lot cheaper in a few years anyway.
    4. 2013/2014 Shelby. I do like the looks, the Shelby name won't be attached to the new mustangs anymore (likely will go back to Cobra), don't mind that "it's just a mustang." It's plenty differentiated and rare for my tastes. However I could NEVER feel good about paying 20-25k on a 3900lb car when I have a paid off Gen II that just evokes a lot of passion from me just looking at it.

    There are other car options as well but nothing gets return on investment like what i already have that has never seen a car note (paid for in cash when I bought it). So I have decided to keep the car. This site has already proven to be invaluable in that there are plenty of people to help me with issues that can arise with the vehicle that I don't know how to fix.

    Final conclusion: Continue to keep driving my 2000 1 of 35 ACR. I don't even feel like I drive it enough as is. As we all know driving a viper brings about a level of respect from car fans all over on a daily basis at every red light and gas station stopped at. I care nothing of the 'image' it portrays. Actually, as a single guy, the women who gravitate to me in the car just means they know very little about the cars. I am not Bruce Wayne. I may seem that way driving around town in what appears to be a bat mobile but they don't see the very middle class lifestyle I go home to after my cruising is done:)

    However a month ago I was eating sushi at a new spot in a popular area around metro Detroit. The car was parked out front of the sushi place that happens to be just off Woodward. I took a photo of her from inside the restaurant taking a photo of the car because she clearly new about the car and stopped to take a quick pic. There were plenty of vettes and porsches around the area but she stopped to take a pic of the viper. Now that is the kind of female attention I would have wanted! I'd post the pic but it's too clear and wouldn't want to do something like that. Gorgeous girl though who obviously has impeccable taste in vehicles:)

    Cheers
     
  13. Jmch

    Jmch Viper Owner

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    Im perfectly content in my middle class life with my old school viper.. glad your keeping it.. cuz I dont fix fords. ;)
     
  14. terminator02

    terminator02 Viper Owner

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    You, my friend, are a big reason I have decided to get involved with the Viper community and also with keeping my car. I have been a forum member since 2005 but only signed up for VCA membership after you kindly helped fix my car and explain exactly what was wrong and what needed to be done. Maybe I should just buy a raffle ticket and see if I have some luck on my side lol.
     
  15. Jmch

    Jmch Viper Owner

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    I bought one ... haven't gotten it yet though.. im sure I just helped to buy someone a really nice car anyways.. :) its a good club/community to be involved in. Im sortof a slacker with my event participation but hopefully after this whole baby thing calms down I can hit some events and drag you along with me
     
  16. terminator02

    terminator02 Viper Owner

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    haha, I hear ya man. I really have no excuse not to be slacking with events other than pure laziness. Are you going to be around for the dream cruise coming up? Usually at 13 and Woodward is a big Mopar setup with Vipers, Challengers and whatnot. I'm sure other's know exactly where they will be this year but I should be around that area this year. Last year a week before the cruise is when my balancer went. So far the pin is aligned perfectly but i just need to give the car a good polish.
     

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