Install time for a Supercharger?

[obaa996]

So I finally made up my mind... I'm picking up a Paxton supercharger from DC Performance for my Gen1. I'll admit that I think Roe's supercharger is much sexier looking, but I was swayed by DC's kit because:
1) It's CARB-legal, and thus I assume will pass an emission sniffer test
2) Has an intercooler (no running out of water/methanol)
3) I haven't seen as many threads about tuning issues with the Paxton (though this may be that fewer folks DIY with a Paxton?).

I had my dealer order the kit today. I plan to have them install and tune the system; they've done several already, and are pretty experienced with them. I was kind of surprised by the labor quote for the install though. When I first called them on the kit, I was fairly certain the quote was around $1600; works out to 20hrs. Today though, the quote was $2400, or 30 hrs. I wish I could grab my original notes, but they're packed up for an office move, besides which I'm on vacation this week. In any event, while I understand they need to charge what they have to, it's a big chunk for me on essentially a frivolity. That, and my property tax bill arrived today, also with significant upgrades.

I'm a reasonably competent parts changer; I go slow and triple-check. I have no delusions of being a tuner though. I've gone through Paxton's instructions several times, and they seem clear enough that I don't think I'd have issues doing it myself. The only problem areas I see are dealing with the crank pulleys/damper (it appears to be an interference fit and the location is tight), and being able to get sufficient clearance/access to the various parts. And of course the final tuning... There's no mention of it in the instructions; perhaps the system comes pretty dialed in. I know that the computer maps are tweaked during fine tuning, but the last time my car was on the dyno, the maps couldn't even be accessed; they were suspecting an issue with the diagnostics port.

Am I daft to even be considering this? How long might it reasonably take me to install? Double the professional time? Triple? For those of you who have gone through the DIY route, I'd really like to hear your experiences.

Thanks!

 

[KenH]

Mike,
I incurred unexplained cost over-runs when I had my install done and then it wasn't done all that well (lots of issues left for me to fix). The tuning is outsourced, so you can outsource to the same people just as easily if you are doing the install yourself. It cost $300 to have the tune done on my car. In my case, I had to end up doing the tuning myself in order to get things running right, but I don't fault the tuner for that as my car had some other issues outside his control. If you do have it installed, get a hard quote and not just a verbal. A verbal commitment means nothing to their billing department, trust me.

On the Paxton, you need to tap the oil pan for a return line as well, so you need to be prepared to do that as well, otherwise I don't see why you couldn't do it yourself.

--- Ken

 

[obaa996]

Hey Ken,
Thanks; I've been kind of monitoring the progress of your car as a baseline for what to with mine (hope you don't mind.... )
As I mentioned before, the Roe fits my mental picture of a supercharger better than the Paxton, and the install really looks uncomplicated, but the issues you had with your Roe was one of the main reasons I decided to go with the Paxton. I was still very much on the fence when I walked into the shop to order, figuring I'd let their experience sway me. There were at least 2 other cars in getting Paxtons when I stopped in, and then recalling some fitment issues I saw last winter was enough to put me over into the Paxton camp.
The Paxton looks more labor intensive than the Roe, so with the initial labor estimate they quoted, I figured I'd let them handle everything. I double-checked this morning after unpacking the office, and it did go up 50% from our phone conversation a couple of weeks ago; it's pricey enough where I'm considering DIY and bringing in for final tuning; I'm pulling off the front/rear fascias for repainting anyway. I figure I've got a couple of weeks to decide if I want to DIY before the kit actually comes in. Would you be interested in lending a hand installing it? I don't have a lift (yet), but I have a fridge in the garage that can hold a lot of beer....

 

[KenH]

If the price doesn't go above $2400, I don't think that is too bad of a price since it probably includes the tune. If you DIY, I'd be happy to lend a hand. After a 6 pack or two to get our courage up, we'll be ready to take a drill to your oil pan .

BTW, my car is running like a top now, just took longer than I expected to get to this point.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

There really isn't too much to tune on the Paxton kit if you are going to leave it in stock form. The splitsec computer they use just takes out timing and does not fool with the fuel map. The fuel delivery system they use maxes out the stock fuel system....if it gets hot where you're at you may want to still consider the **** system from snow performance.

Take your time doing the install and you should be able to do it in a weekend easily.

I think the following was the most time consuming.

1. pinning the crank. I would highly recommend you chuck the paxton pin kit and us the Roe pin kit...way better and way stronger.

2. tapping into the oil pan

3. fitting the aftermarket fuel system

4. getting the right wires spliced into the split sec box.

5. aluminum cross member removal.

After I installed my first system...I ripped everything out that was a paxton kit part and fabercated my own system. Only thing I have now is the Novi 2000 on it. I should have gone with a tuner kit to save $$

 

[obaa996]

A weekend? Really? Maybe I should do the install myself and just bring it in for tuning.... The weather's pretty mild in the PNW, and I'm not planning on modifying the system to any extent. About pinning the crank; what's the difference between Paxton and Roe? The size of the pin used? I'm having the stock dampener replaced with an aftermarket version the shop recommended. I always remembered removing those to be a PITA....

 

[Qualitywires.com]

The roe pin is stronger and pins the damper and the crank like if you were keying it. The paxton pin will snap.

Use the ATI damper.

 

[Cris]

I calculated a 30% increased in damper retention with the Paxton pins. One assumption is that the joint stay TIGHT. In that case the extra 30% should be enough for normal usage. Now for AB it may not be enough as he was driving more than 8 psi and thus drawing much more power from the crank to drive the supercharger. For those that keep to a standard level of boost the Paxton pins have been effective. In other words don't run scared as a result of the posts above if you have a Paxton pin kit already installed.

Paxton pins are 1/8 inch I believe (2 pins). But if you have a Roe set available (and tools to do it) I would probably err on the side of stronger (but I have never seen the Roe so am unsure what it includes).

 

[Qualitywires.com]

Actually my pins sheared off on the stock Paxton setup. I am not saying the pin will not hold, but it's not the strongest. On a supercharger application, I would pin the crank the right way the first time instead of drilling many different holes in it. You may want to increase your power down the road and why wait to do it the correct way. Trust me the Roe Pins are way superior than the Paxton Pins. I would rather have something stronger than something marginal.

 

[John Reed]

Not to hijack your thread, but if any of you guys in the Portland metro area are in need of Viper work/tuning, let me know. I do quite a lot of Viper tuning (especially with the AEM EMS), and have also done quite a bit of mechanical work on them as well.

I used to work at TorqueFreaks, but now have my own shop in the Jantzen Beach area. Dyno goes in the ground hopefully within 4 weeks! Feel free to email me with any questions or if you just want to stop by and check it out.