Legal advice/tips regarding failed 06 FE purchase?

McConaughey

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Before I get into the gory details, I want to put it out there that I have owned several vipers over the last decade. All have been 2nd and 3rd gens. All 3rd gens happened to be FE cars (#013, #169, and #02x). I am extremely familiar with most aspects of the cars and their build quality.

I recently decided to purchase another while the weather here in Texas is nice. After two months of looking, I found one for sale in Shreveport, La at a very reasonable price ($52,700). I contacted the seller who ended up being a dealer specializing in classic cars and old hot rods. The information I was given about the car was as follows: One owner, garage kept, NEVER DAMAGED, no rock chips, no modifications, 5,700 miles. I asked him four times about paintwork or accident history. All four times he responded with "Never even had a touch up spot! I would bet my dealership and $10,000 that this car is flawless or your money back!" I pulled a carfax, and it mirrored everything he had said (One owner, no reported accidents, and not much else). After explaining that I would not be bringing $50,000+ cash to a stranger and I wouldn't be sending him a money gram for a $500 deposit, he agreed to accept a wire transfer for a $500 deposit on the car and after getting said funds he would email me a receipt stating that if the car was not as described I would get my funds returned. I never got that email. He didn't even respond saying he got the funds. This was Friday afternoon.

On the next Monday, I paid a person I trust to drive the 3 hours with me to come inspect the car and help me drive it back to Dallas. Within seconds of us getting there he started alerting me to red flags left and right (the dealer walked away when he heard my name being called to come look at the passenger door). There was what appeared to be a dime sized burn through the clear under the passenger mirror. We then noticed a tape line the length of the door, the clear coat was completely color sanded on the top of the fenders to the point where a buffer couldn't polish it again, the exhaust cover was not aligned properly, and other minor flaws in the paint. Granted, on a less expensive car these things would probably have gone unnoticed. I then looked down at the seam where the exhaust cover and the rear quarter panel met and noticed BAD orange peel on the cover, but glossy smooth paint on the quarter panel (VERY OBVIOUS). The final straw was under the hood. There we found a rust spot on the radiator support and a notch cut out. I was ignorant to why this would have happened, but my friend called the dealer over and told him I wouldn't be purchasing the car because it had a frame straightener on it at some point. The radiator support had been cut and welded back, and every bolt on the passenger side had been turned/chewed. The dealer argued that they are hand built, and they all look like this. I calmly explained this wasn't true and that if he hadn't seen several of them in the past, he might not have known. His response was that we were right and that he had "never inspected any car like we did, because it looks good and nobody really cares" "it is good paintwork". He then showed me a copy of an auction receipt from the owner who left it on consignment! So this ends up not being his car, ends up being a multiple owner car, and has paint repair... The owner bought the car at a Florida auction and it has a California title. NONE of this showed up on carfax.

At this point I simply asked for my deposit to be refunded so I could go on my way. The dealer responded saying that he had signed a contract with the owner to give him half of any deposit and he would talk to him and try to wire the refund the next day. I didn't believe him, but I was very frustrated and didn't want to get in a shouting match with this person. Boy, I wish I had. For two days he would not return phone calls or text messages. I did some digging and found the real owners phone number and promptly contacted him. He angrily stated he ever signed any contract, never was paid a dime, and had no idea the car had been damaged (still swears it hasn't, because he would have known when he bought it), and the dealer better give me my money back instantly. He went as far as saying he would go kick the guys butt for using him as a pawn in his lies. After this conversation I got a text from the dealer upset at me for contacting the owner and to be patient and I'll get the money back. After no response to my texts for several days, he texted that he was on the way to his bank at 4:15 on Friday afternoon. I thanked him for making it right. At 10:00 that night he texted saying he forgot, but would go on Monday. By Wed of the next week, still no money or contact. I told him via text get it to me now or I will get it in person. He responded saying it was only $500 and I needed to calm down, because he didn't have to give me or anybody else ****. That was a week ago tomorrow. Needless to say I am pissed.

It is $500, and I could care less about a law suit. I would like any possible advice on pursuing this criminally. I have read that theft of $500 or more is a felony in Louisiana, but what about wire fraud? Would I get better results by showing up to the local police department in person, or would a call suffice? I want to do whatever I can to avoid law enforcement pawning it off as a civil matter. After doing some extensive research, this is not the first time this person has done this sort of thing. Always the same $500 amount!

Thanks in advance guys! I really hope I'm the only one here that he has gotten with this.
 
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viper k

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it happen to me and i never got my 500 dollars back they figure its only 500 and it will cost you more money than its worth ??
 
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McConaughey

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HAHA! He obviously thinks that, but I'm not the previous people he's stolen from. That last text from him gave my life new meaning. I am now dedicated to ruining his. Again, I could stomach a $500 loss. Lie to my face and then tell me you don't care what I do? I'll do what it takes to make you care!
 

TrackAire

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No legal advice, but here are two thoughts for you.

1. Carfax should never, ever be used as a final decision. If I crash my car into a tree tonight, take it to a Russian chop shop, pay them cash to "repair" it, it is not going to show up anywhere on paperwork. No police report, no insurance claim, no Carfax reporting it.

2. For $500.00, I would not waste your time with lawyers, police, felony, etc. Go put your story on viperalley.com If you are truthful, have not left out anything and are truly getting screwed, those guys will make this dealerships life a living hell. They will post all bad complaints, past legal issues, etc for the world to see. This will cost the dealer more than anything you could do legally. If you go the viperalley route, you need to be a big boy and make sure your story pans out. Post up all the details, any emails, dealership name, etc. Within 24 hours that dealership will be getting "messages" from friends asking who the hell they screwed. Most people in the wrong agree to pay up quickly just to stop the internet bad press and pressure from continuing.

Good luck, you're lucky you only lost $500.00 and did not gain a POS Viper.

George
 

Free2go

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You don't have to "make your case" to the keyboard jockey's in the Alley. Go back to the stealership and don't leave till you get your money back....like you should have done the first day. And George, with all due respect, if the Alley wasn't harboring RSI and Vipair I might have a little more faith in them.
 
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McConaughey

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I never assumed carfax was the all knowing end all be all of the car industry. I have had flawless cars with bad carfoxes and seen salvaged cars with clean ones. It is a good tool to sniff out a liar. This time it was a waste of my money. I wouldn't be surprised if I purchased the car and months later carfax shows a major accident and three owners.

I have no need to lie or make up stories. If I had changed my mind about buying the car and it was as advertised, I would have told him to keep it for the time I wasted.

Filling out a police report will not cost me a dime, and I wouldn't consider it wasting my time. I just wanted to avoid getting the run around if anybody else has had any experience with this type of thing.

While typing this, I was just informed by the car owner that every car on the dealers lot is on consignment. He finally spoke with the dealer to inform him that his behavior was not acceptable, and the dealers reaction was to tell him he couldn't get his car back unless he payed him $2,000 in storage fees for the viper. The plot thickens.
 

TrackAire

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You don't have to "make your case" to the keyboard jockey's in the Alley. Go back to the stealership and don't leave till you get your money back....like you should have done the first day. And George, with all due respect, if the Alley wasn't harboring RSI and Vipair I might have a little more faith in them.

If that is harboring, I'd hate to see how they'd treat them if they hated them......98% over there show no love for RSI or Vipair. The Alley has actually helped both domestic and foreign Viper owners get their parts/money from crooked people.

I'm betting this issue can be handled by weeks end....by Monday the OP would have his $500.00 back from the stealership.
Dealerships don't go bad overnight, this isn't the first deal that the dealership tried to put one over on a buy/seller. I bet this guy has a long and ugly past, both business and personal. Nothing is more embarrassing than having the world know your past arrest history, tax liens, judgments, etc......especially on the world wide web.
 

Timnineside

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Wow this guy sounds like a real winner. As stated take this to the Alley. You'll be very surprised how fast things start going your way.
 

Free2go

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Something tells me the guy that's messing with the OP doesn't too much care about his online presence. This guy must be dealt with IN PERSON.
 
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McConaughey

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I am willing to try anything, but through my own research it wasn't difficult to find dirt on him. He recently changed the name of his business, but he left his old facebook page up with a complaint about him taking $500 from a woman as payment for picking up her daughter and her groom at their wedding. He took the money and never showed up for the wedding. Not to mention old BBB complaints about deceptive practices. If he cares, he's done little to remove the complaints against him.
 
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McConaughey

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Thanks guys. I'll post it on the alley, and make the trip out there in the morning.
 

Free2go

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There you go. Go down there and get what was stolen from you AND shaft his ass on the Alley. Could you do us all a favor and wear a hidden cam and post it? Plus, some video would shut the mouth of the biggest skeptic and cross examining butthole in the Alley...Dave6666
 
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rdutko

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Why would you give someone $500.00 to look at a car?
Getting a refund without a written signed agreement for a refund, which most likely could only be gotten by taking a trip to small claims court and then filing a lean on his bank account is a lot of trouble @ 3 hours away, in another state. And he knows it.

Sounds like your **** out of luck.
 

DrumrBoy

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It'll cost you more than $500 (unless you're an IT genius) but hiring someone to post all kinds of truthful but hurtful stuff about this experience and his integrity on the net (and search engine optimize it) would bring him more than $500 worth of pain and embarrassment.
 

denniskgb

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small claims court as long as you have all the proof. or even better Attorney General Office for consumer dispute. This seems to be very effective believe me when i tell you.
 

Bobpantax

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He probably does $500.00 cons to avoid receiving more than $600.00 so a Form 1099 is not required to be sent to him and other laws that have a trigger above $500.00.

Assuming you have the requisite proof, including in particular, an affidavit from your friend as to what he saw when he inspected the car and what the fellow said, so that it is not just a he said, he said, incident, filing the police report to report an economic crime makes sense. It will also strengthen your civil case because it may force the fellow to assert his fifth amendment right in the civil suit if the judge does not stay the action pending the outcome of the criminal case. Other evidence that might be required: an affidavit from the owner you spoke to and photos of the car. Good luck.



Before I get into the gory details, I want to put it out there that I have owned several vipers over the last decade. All have been 2nd and 3rd gens. All 3rd gens happened to be FE cars (#013, #169, and #02x). I am extremely familiar with most aspects of the cars and their build quality.

I recently decided to purchase another while the weather here in Texas is nice. After two months of looking, I found one for sale in Shreveport, La at a very reasonable price ($52,700). I contacted the seller who ended up being a dealer specializing in classic cars and old hot rods. The information I was given about the car was as follows: One owner, garage kept, NEVER DAMAGED, no rock chips, no modifications, 5,700 miles. I asked him four times about paintwork or accident history. All four times he responded with "Never even had a touch up spot! I would bet my dealership and $10,000 that this car is flawless or your money back!" I pulled a carfax, and it mirrored everything he had said (One owner, no reported accidents, and not much else). After explaining that I would not be bringing $50,000+ cash to a stranger and I wouldn't be sending him a money gram for a $500 deposit, he agreed to accept a wire transfer for a $500 deposit on the car and after getting said funds he would email me a receipt stating that if the car was not as described I would get my funds returned. I never got that email. He didn't even respond saying he got the funds. This was Friday afternoon.

On the next Monday, I paid a person I trust to drive the 3 hours with me to come inspect the car and help me drive it back to Dallas. Within seconds of us getting there he started alerting me to red flags left and right (the dealer walked away when he heard my name being called to come look at the passenger door). There was what appeared to be a dime sized burn through the clear under the passenger mirror. We then noticed a tape line the length of the door, the clear coat was completely color sanded on the top of the fenders to the point where a buffer couldn't polish it again, the exhaust cover was not aligned properly, and other minor flaws in the paint. Granted, on a less expensive car these things would probably have gone unnoticed. I then looked down at the seam where the exhaust cover and the rear quarter panel met and noticed BAD orange peel on the cover, but glossy smooth paint on the quarter panel (VERY OBVIOUS). The final straw was under the hood. There we found a rust spot on the radiator support and a notch cut out. I was ignorant to why this would have happened, but my friend called the dealer over and told him I wouldn't be purchasing the car because it had a frame straightener on it at some point. The radiator support had been cut and welded back, and every bolt on the passenger side had been turned/chewed. The dealer argued that they are hand built, and they all look like this. I calmly explained this wasn't true and that if he hadn't seen several of them in the past, he might not have known. His response was that we were right and that he had "never inspected any car like we did, because it looks good and nobody really cares" "it is good paintwork". He then showed me a copy of an auction receipt from the owner who left it on consignment! So this ends up not being his car, ends up being a multiple owner car, and has paint repair... The owner bought the car at a Florida auction and it has a California title. NONE of this showed up on carfax.

At this point I simply asked for my deposit to be refunded so I could go on my way. The dealer responded saying that he had signed a contract with the owner to give him half of any deposit and he would talk to him and try to wire the refund the next day. I didn't believe him, but I was very frustrated and didn't want to get in a shouting match with this person. Boy, I wish I had. For two days he would not return phone calls or text messages. I did some digging and found the real owners phone number and promptly contacted him. He angrily stated he ever signed any contract, never was paid a dime, and had no idea the car had been damaged (still swears it hasn't, because he would have known when he bought it), and the dealer better give me my money back instantly. He went as far as saying he would go kick the guys butt for using him as a pawn in his lies. After this conversation I got a text from the dealer upset at me for contacting the owner and to be patient and I'll get the money back. After no response to my texts for several days, he texted that he was on the way to his bank at 4:15 on Friday afternoon. I thanked him for making it right. At 10:00 that night he texted saying he forgot, but would go on Monday. By Wed of the next week, still no money or contact. I told him via text get it to me now or I will get it in person. He responded saying it was only $500 and I needed to calm down, because he didn't have to give me or anybody else ****. That was a week ago tomorrow. Needless to say I am pissed.

It is $500, and I could care less about a law suit. I would like any possible advice on pursuing this criminally. I have read that theft of $500 or more is a felony in Louisiana, but what about wire fraud? Would I get better results by showing up to the local police department in person, or would a call suffice? I want to do whatever I can to avoid law enforcement pawning it off as a civil matter. After doing some extensive research, this is not the first time this person has done this sort of thing. Always the same $500 amount!

Thanks in advance guys! I really hope I'm the only one here that he has gotten with this.
 

Nine Ball

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Post the VIN here, so that potential shoppers might Google it and find this thread. I'd post it all over the net, with your story :)
 

rdutko

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The thieving redneck, lying, double crossing dealer didn't ask for $500.00 to get out of paying taxes. The guy just arbitrarily gave it to him.

In my mind deposits are something that you give to hold an item ( to give yourself time to get financing, logistics, etc. in order) after you've inspected it and decided that you want it.

One could argue that this guy promised (with a $500.00 commitment) to purchase the car and re-negged on his promise. Wouldn't it be funny if the dealer came after him for 52.2K.
 
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Bobpantax

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He spoke to the owner and he had a friend with him who witnessed what occurred. The fact that he asked for a deposit is not what I addressed. The amount of the deposit is the potential issue. Discovery here might show many forfeited deposits with respect to other cars where people just did not want to fight over $500.00. Think of it as a type of front fee scam. More than $500.00 tends to be a threshhold amount for the application of a number of laws including the break point between degrees of felonies for theft through fraud. If this fellow is a small con artist with a what appears to be a record of other types of small cons as indicated in the posts above, he might be aware of trigger points including the $600 threshhold for filing a 1099 by the payor. What he may or may not be aware of is that the proceeds from a theft are ordinary income under the United States Supreme Court case of U.S. v. James, 366 U.S. 213 (1961).

Scam artists usually are not tax complaint people.
 
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Sybil TF

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You don't have to "make your case" to the keyboard jockey's in the Alley. Go back to the stealership and don't leave till you get your money back....like you should have done the first day. And George, with all due respect, if the Alley wasn't harboring RSI and Vipair I might have a little more faith in them.

This is right on!!

By the way, I would have threw the biggest hissy fit he had ever seen until I got cash in my hand. Sorry for you.
 

heath1225

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My dad had a similar experience over 20 years. My dad collected 1959 Cadillacs and bought a car from a guy in Seattle. We live in Kentucky. The guy advertised the car as flawless. No rust. All the chrome trim still intact. Interior was original and perfect. He even had pics displaying the car in such condition. It was shipped to Kentucky and it was a junker. Dad paid $20k for junk. Well the guy wouldnt refund the money and ceased all communication. So my dad contacts the Kentucky State Police and just so happens the officer my dad spoke to was very good friends with an agent at the Washington Bureau of Investigation in Seattle. After a the man who sold the car to my dad was asked to come down to the WBI for a chat and was threatened with mail and wire fraud, he promptly returned the money. I think you can get your money back without spending much more of your own. If this guy has a history of bad dealings and/or you contact the right people it may be easily done.
 

Grisoman

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Better being wiser at $500 than regretful at $50K. Forget chasing a legal drama (what is your time worth after all?) and continue your search. And never rely on Carfax again (I sure don't).
 

Free2go

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What? Just walk away and let this guy prey on more of our Viper brethren? There's too many doing that already.
 
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