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Let's try to help SRT save/sell the GEN V.

Discussion in 'General Viper Discussion' started by Ray W, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. Ray W

    Ray W Enthusiast

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    Many dealers that I went to would not let me test drive the new 2014 SRT Jeep. I bought mine from the one that did. Not a single Dealer, not even the one I bought from offered to show me their Viper. They all had at least one (14 Dealers). Much less try to sell me one. God forbid that I may have asked to drive one. That is why I say Viper owners sell Vipers not Dealers.
     
  2. HyperViper

    HyperViper Enthusiast

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    Yep, SRT needs to start some serious marketing AND somehow convince their Dealers to take the pack off the window stickers and designate a "driver" for test drives.
     
  3. TrackAire

    TrackAire Enthusiast

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    I had heard that Viper test rides were hard to get, but an SRT Jeep?.....oh brother :rolleyes:
    Back in May my wife bought a new car and was bouncing between the Range Rover and Porsche Panamera. Since the dealerships were within 100' of each other, they had any Porsche and any Range Rover she wanted to test drive lined up. All it took was a copy of her drivers license. We were bouncing back and forth between the two dealerships test driving the different models. They had no problem with it and she bought the car she liked best. There has to be a way the dealership can vet out a potential buyer without insulting him or just saying "no test drives".

    Here is my main reason for not buying ANY Chrysler product.....lack of performance upgrades, especially the locked computer in the Gen 4 and Gen 5. This is diminishing the value of our cars as many people that buy such a high performance car want to modify it.....whether it needs it or not, it is the customers choice. The Gen 5 platform is very stout and can take a lot of abuse....perfect car to add in more hp. Simple set up and very raw. Many off shore car enthusiast are looking for just such an animal but won't consider the Gen 5 since it would get embarrassed by a pulley and tune Mustang Shelby in a mild roll on race. At the last 1/2 mile airport race I did, there were at least 3 cars there that were built (Mustangs and Vettes) up with forced induction and getting sent to the Middle East after the event. They looked at my Viper and said they loved everything about them but they are not easy to modify and that is what they are most concerned with....bragging rights of what their car can "potentially" do.

    ViperSmith nailed the SRT marketing fubar......I can't understand how or why they would screw something up this many times and keep making the same mistake. I have my theory but most would call it crazy.

    Regarding the economy, I do not agree. People with money only buy and desire what they don't have only if it's better than the competition and nicer than what their neighbor drives. The key is to have a car that is really special. I can't really say the Gen 5 is special enough at this time to make people want it over the next greatest and latest car to come to market. The sad thing is with a few minor tweaks and improvements, it would really be a beast. I just don't know if the history of the past 12 months can be erased from the minds of potential buyers.

    George
     
  4. George Farris

    George Farris VCA Venom Member Venom Member

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    A Paddle shifters option would help a bunch at the Gen V price range.

    Have two friend here who would buy in a minute - but they do not want to row gears.

    The buyers in the Emerging Markets do not want to row gears either.
     
  5. TrackAire

    TrackAire Enthusiast

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    I would have thought the same thing about the overseas markets, but in talking with contacts in the Middle East, since everything is DCT, having a manual car just makes it different and they all want to have something unique......who would have thought that old fashion manuals are being desired. Raw machines with a rougher edge are making a comeback since everything is getting so automated and electronic.

    I do agree that some sort of auto would help sales overall. As long as both options are available it would put the Gen 5 in a very rare position amongst performance cars.

    George
     
  6. shine

    shine Viper Owner

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    How many people that buy SRTs (not just Vipers, but Chargers, 300s, Challengers and Jeeps) have no idea about the SRT Track Experience?

    Every SRT has a free ticket to one included in the price.

    Almost every single SRT owner I've met has had no idea that they got to go to one of these for free.

    Yet BMW, Mustang, and others have similar programs and every one I've talked to about theirs was told about it up front, and encouraged to go.

    The SRT Track Experience singlehandedly led me to buy a Jeep SRT within a week after going to my first one. It's a marketing bonanza, yet it's never been advertised. It's a line item on a crowded window sticker. If you're not on a forum, you have no idea that you get to go.

    It's a small thing, but indicative of how long SRT has really been behind the curve on marketing, that they put together this great program and no one has heard about it.
     
  7. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    SRT Track Experience is also somewhat of a marketing fail. You have to have already purchased an SRT vehicle to attend that, within 2 yrs of buying it. I looked on the calendar, and it was full for almost a year out from my purchase. Like I said earlier, Cadillac has a V series track day, several per year, across the country. They invite non-V owners to come out and try the cars. Before the sale. I have many co-workers that saw my CTS-V and instantly knew what it was, because they had participated in one of those driving days before. A few of them bought cars after those events. SRT needs this also.

    As for the "higher price" comments, that simply isn't valid. Here is a base 2010 coupe, no stripe, no options. It is only $4k less than a Gen V base car. When you factor in 3 yrs inflation at 3% escalation, the Gen 4 car would be priced at approx $102.8K in today's dollars. The Gen V base is $99K today. With a much better vehicle inside and out.

    [​IMG]

    Another example, a loaded no-stripe convertible 2010, showing $101K MSRP. I think some of you have forgotten that Gen 4 cars weren't "cheap".

    [​IMG]
     
  8. tbsviper

    tbsviper Enthusiast

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    Excellent point. How many dealers know about this or promote it? Feedback here about whether dealers mentioned this would be of interest. Could be one of SRT's best kept secrets.

     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  9. v10enomous

    v10enomous Enthusiast

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    At $122k the 2014 TA is a steal compared to a new ZR1 and a base SRT with a couple of options is a solid value. The stripes are too expensive and they should offer full stripes and include an entry level leather seating surface on the base SRT car. Just my 2 cents.
     
  10. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

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    Don't even get me started on the SRT Track Experience. All the ones near me were booked by the time I got my car. Why SRT didn't make room for me, infuriates me as well. Yes, I do feel a bit entitled after that wait.
     
  11. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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  12. Synergy

    Synergy Enthusiast

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    Price decrease, HP increase. Pretty much sums it up.
     
  13. gtssnake

    gtssnake Viper Owner

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    Biggest problem i see is the sold the Vipers to regular dealers that have no idea what a Viper is and they only understand how to sell $20k-$40k cars and trucks.

    That is why Roanoke Motors, Baxter, Woodhouse, Tomball sell most of the vipers because they understand the car.
     
  14. SlateEd

    SlateEd Enthusiast

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    Has anyone asked the question - How did Chrysler market Barracudas in 1972? hear me out a sec...

    1972 - Huge V8s with 400+ horsepower are EVERYWHERE... get one in a boat of a family sedan, get one in a 2 seat sports car, all 3 domestic brands

    20 years later

    1992 - Viper comes out into a market where engines are choked to death making 300hp or a lot less in some cases. Viper seems outrageous (performance and styling), no peers anywhere near the price range.

    20 more years

    2012 - 400hp is squeezed out of V6s and I4s. 500 and 600 hp cars are available in several price ranges. loud colors and big wings are back. Corvette has caught up. 662hp Mustang for the drag racers... the context is crowded again

    so I come back to the last time we saw a HP war like this was the late 60s - 73. How did brands differentiate and get market share back then?
     
  15. chorps

    chorps Enthusiast

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    I'd say that they understand the customer but that's splitting hairs. :D
     
  16. madninjaskillz

    madninjaskillz Enthusiast

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    Excellent post. You could make the arguement that cars have become much more segregated in today's market. There is also a certain stigma associated with certain cars about their accessibility etc... and many buyers in the 100k segment expect A LOT in that price range. But I think you're on to something here. There needs to be a paradigm shift from SRT/Dodge salesmen (as many have said).
     
  17. Yellow32

    Yellow32 Enthusiast

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    Simple, Dodge releases sales figures every month

    http://media.chrysler.com/newsrelease.do?&id=14816&mid=23

    Through August 31, 2013 there have been 381 Vipers sold (includes all model years if any new 2010s, etc were in the mix)

    For the month of August, there were 61 Vipers sold

    So, do the math, 381 / 8 = about 48 per month average, would make annual run rate about 576
     
  18. SSGNRDZ_28

    SSGNRDZ_28 Enthusiast

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    FYI, I attended the SRT track experience in August. I purchased a used 2008 coupe and the previous owner never used it. They will let you attend years after the purchase (they even said this during the presentation at the track).

    Also , non-SRT vehicle owners can attend but the price just went up from ~$500 to ~$700 IIRC.

    The downsides are that said you can't drive a Viper only the other vehicles. They didn't even have a Viper there other than the one guy who drove his ACR to the experience. I wanted to go a lot faster on the track but it is more novice-oriented. You can't disable traction control. The auto-x was fun and overall a good day but it was no racing school (2 day racing school would be awesome!). This was more of a guided program for anyone off the street with a 300 or SRT Jeep (not that they are bad cars).
     
  19. pathoguy

    pathoguy Enthusiast

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    All more hp means to me is a longer walk out of of the woods, after losing control......still I was surprised with only a 40 hp increase and expected a similar jump as from gen 3 to 4. So even though I would never use the extra hp nor mod the car, feel that 640 hp from such massive displacement disappoints . I had a Gen 2, now a Gen 3 coupe, and thinking about my next viper adventure. Likely get a very very low mileage 2010 in the high $70s over the new one which does not excite me....yet!
     
  20. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    What?

    LS7: 505hp / 7.0L = 72 hp per liter
    GenV: 640hp / 8.4L = 76 hp per liter

    Viper also makes quite a bit more torque than the LS7, which is a highly regarded naturally aspirated engine. If you think your Gen 3 feels fast, the Gen 4/5 engines are a LOT faster.
     
  21. ferraritoviper

    ferraritoviper Enthusiast

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    The link posted above by Yellow32 is somewhat telling...appears ViperHalo is not a Chrysler priority. Chrysler doing well (sales wise anyway) across board by brands in this economy...and in the Dodge section of the link, all models are mentioned except Viper. It doesn't take a genius to figure out where the marketing dollars are going.

    Seems the air has gone out of SRT/Viper for all the reasons mentioned in above posts. The 'build it and they will come' mentality didn't work, at least not yet, and their marketing budget probably ran out by launch/reveal time. Hang in there...better times are ahead!
     
  22. pathoguy

    pathoguy Enthusiast

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    No doubt you have way superior technical knowledge of performance motors. Those numbers you quote likely make a valid point, but maybe wasted on someone like me (mechanically challenged). Alas, I like vipers for all the wrong reasons. I enjoy the feel, the stance, the look of a viper even at the speed limit. My viper will never see a dragstrip nor be tied down to a dyno. I feel like others that a few more horses should have been massaged out of that huge V10. It just leaves me underwhelmed at present. If others feel the same, sales will be affected.
     
  23. Steve M

    Steve M Enthusiast

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    640HP out of an 8.4L naturally aspirated engine while remaining noise and emissions compliant ain't bad at all.

    I think people expected another 95-100HP increase like there was between the Gen 3 and 4, but there's only so much you can do with a naturally aspirated engine that can still be driven by nearly anyone (no cam surge, bucking at low RPMs, etc.).
     
  24. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    Now, if they'd offer us a dry-sump oiling system, titanium connecting rods ala LS7, and at least 7,000 rpm - then we'd see 700 hp NA. I sure wish the V10 could rev, it pulls so hard up to the rev limiter that you can tell it is begging for more RPM.
     
  25. ACRucrazy

    ACRucrazy Enthusiast

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    Its what they need to do IMO. There is no need to bolt on turbos or superchargers or something silly like DOHC. Build the engine, improve what we have already.
     
  26. kratedisease

    kratedisease Enthusiast

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    WOW, I and I did not start this post.....cannot blame me ..... that I was correct several months ago.....
     
  27. Dom426h

    Dom426h Enthusiast

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    Thanks for the data Yellow32.

    576 for the year? ...That's about half what I expected. But then again that data is only USA sales.... I wander what the TOTAL global sales are?

    Two more Q's:
    1. What was SRT's sales target for the Gen5 for 2013?
    2. I remember back when dealerships were taking pre-orders from customers and SRT was allocating to the dealers. There were a few people complaining on here saying that they were not able to order one since there dealer wasn't getting one, or that they pre-ordered then later found out they wouldn't be getting one because other higher priority orders were being filled. This left me with the perception that all of the pre-orders were accounted for and SRT was "over booked" which would be a success?(more demand than supply...) Was I wrong? What's the reality of the situation?
     
  28. mnc2886

    mnc2886 Enthusiast

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    Bingo. Dry sump would be a low "ish" cost of development.

    NineBall,

    I respect what you are saying about the price in response to other complaints. Your points are very valid if you are a Viper fanatic. However, referencing a Gen IV in the price discussion only gets you so far. The Gen IV didn't sell well either. There are still new 2010's hanging around. Secondly, one thing I feel most defending the Viper's new price point are forgetting is something Ralph stated in an interview. He said that they discussed with competitive brand owners why they wouldn't buy a Viper. They all said for the money the Viper was missing too much (cheap materials, interior, etc.) In other words the Gen IV had a pricing issue too. However, the performance helped sell. So the way I feel the Gen V pricing should be viewed is that they finally added what was lacking at the price point they were at, but then they turned around and raised the price. That's why the Gen V is priced out of the market. The price is off by about $20k. Referencing inflation, etc, doesn't help either. Most people haven't made more money over the last 2 years and necessities have become more expensive by an order of magnitude.

    Again, I agree with your viewpoints, but it is my opinion that the arguments are a little misplaced. I mean this post as an honest debate of opinions and by no means attempting to troll. I personally love the Gen V, but I do understand why people are disappointed. I feel most of this pricing discussion would go away if SRT had reasonably priced options. When you are charging as much for stripes as a quality shop would for a custom paint job with tear down and reassembly, you're almost asking buyers not to check the boxes. Which again says "here is what you said we were missing and now we added it," but then raised the price above where the buyers expected it at. SRT has done a terrible job listening to the market from all standpoints. I personally have to point back to Beth Peretta. That is her job isn't it? She caught a lot of flack on here before hasn't she? Every time I saw her talk about the Viper, I felt she got promoted beyond her skill set. I don't see how the Viper could benefit from her marketing skills and the results are right in front of us today. Shame on Ralph for letting it continue.

    Again, NineBall, I hope you view my post as constructive criticism and not trolling and I have no problem if you or anyone else disagrees with me. I just don't want to be classified as one of those that is perpetually a Debbie-Downer.
     
  29. SRTviper

    SRTviper Enthusiast

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    It is sad and reflects poorly on the people you are pleading too when you have to state multiple times in your thread that your opinion should not be labeled as a troll because it is negative.

    But anyways, after nine balls' descriptive stats, he is right. The gen V is not much more expensive than the gen IV and has a lot more. And mnc2886 your assessment is right as well, so let me bring a middle perspective.

    SRT priced the base model completely right. Right at the point of a fully loaded zo6 which I think would be the equivalent in this case. But the GTS is way way too high. That is where they messed up. That is why if the dealers ordered more SRTs and less GTS then they would have sold more probably. But that is just my guess. Perhaps made the GTS 110k instead of 120k and have it max out at 120-125k minus stripes and stryker paint. Then I think this car would have been more successful. But definitely upgrades like CC brakes and better shocks would have to become mandatory later.
     
  30. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    Definitely constructive, and good points. I also own a 2006 Gen 3 coupe, which had an MSRP of $91,990. Pricing hasn't changed too much in 7 yrs, IMHO. I do agree that the painted-on stripes are a huge rip-off for these cars, especially when you see how quickly they are done. They have huge fiberglass molds that are shaped like the hatch/roof/hood that they just lay over the top and have the stripe patterns already in them. Takes them no time to mask off the stripe, using that big stencil structure.
     

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