Looking for feedback from the road racers

valentine_viper

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I have a stock '04 and have road raced it a couple of times on the stock 10 spokes and runflats, so I have a decent feel for the car's stock handling characteristics. I will be installing 18" SSRs with Sport Cups (295 front, 345 rear) this week. Can anyone who has made this transition give me some feedback on what to expect on these tires and wheels? Will the car's balance change.. More tendency to either over or understeer... Braking... Exit speeds, lap time improvement, etc?

Any first hand feedback would be welcome.

Thanks guys!
 

GR8_ASP

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I made that exact same switch. Overall I was quite happy, though I did experience some issues the first time at the track (I encountered ABS failures which adversely affected my willingness to attack the track).

I thought balance was improved, with a little less push than the oem setup. Still obvious throttle on oversteer but fairly neutral in steady state. Cups provide a little less feedback regarding the limit so you need to be attentive in approaching the limit. However, I did not experience a slick condition due to over temp as I have with Pilots. Traction was quite steady once they were up to temp.

I noticed they took more time to get to temp. Close to 2 80-90% laps as compared to 1 lap for Pilots. Pressure rise is less as well. I pyroed mine and the temps Tire Rack indicated worked well. I can't comment about wear or heat cycle aging as I replaced the tires soon after that track event.

I mentioned ABS before as that was my exciting experience (ever lose it at 130 mph and lock the rear - it leads to a wild ride!). When ABS was off, and front to rear bias was far from ideal, I found braking to be very difficult. I was not very effective at approaching impending lock-up. Instead locking up momentarily and then reducing. Some due to limited feedback, but also due to the rear being the tire that was locking up first.

So my advice is to keep your ABS working. My problem was due to an overheated rear ABS sensor. With ABS working the tires were great for braking.

The only real complaint I have about Cups is the bump steer/trammeling effect which is much worse than the stock tires. It makes the high speed straights quite scary. No 1 handed driving with them (not that you would but I need to shift on the high speed straights at Gingerman). Bottom line is that I believe I shaved off about 2 s/lap, though I do not believe I really found the limit with the tires before my ABS failed.
 
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valentine_viper

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Thanks for the feedback. If you don't mind a few more questions... Was the ABS failure directly related to the wheel/tire set-up, or would it have happened with the stockers too? Not sure what you mean by "bump-steer/trammeling". Is that the tendency for the car to want to follow ruts in the road? Are you using the low pressure sensors? I am not planning on using them. Will I get a code or any other problem? Lastly, how are the Cups on the street?

Thanks again for your help!
 

GR8_ASP

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ABS failure was probably due to high brake temperature. The ABS sensors are mounted quite close to the rotor.

Probably not directly related to the Cups. I expect it was more due to higher straight speeds due to power increases.

The trammeling effect, tendency to follow road variation, is much worse on the street. Adding additional camber or toe may improve it.
 

GTS Bruce

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Need brake feel?Get aeroquip lines.Next upgrade for my gen II is real brakes of course with aeroquip lines.My car was very antsy however it didn't bother me.I thought that was the way they were and have driven far more radical handling setup cars.However a properly aligned Viper will not do this.Your alignment is probably very screwed up and a $99 special will just likely make it worse.I just got back from Tator's Dodge near NYC.Alignment by Chuck and Rob took 4-5 hours.Eight hour drive there and 6 hour drive back but more than worth it.My alignment is slightly more radical than stock but the factory,1st,and 2nd allignment attempt were equaly bad.Chuck and Rob understand the car,know how to do it,will do it absolutely correctly and yeah it will cost you probably a few hours work but worth it like night and day.Hell, even someone with limp wrists could easily drive my car now. GTS Bruce
 
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valentine_viper

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ABS failure was probably due to high brake temperature. The ABS sensors are mounted quite close to the rotor.

Probably not directly related to the Cups. I expect it was more due to higher straight speeds due to power increases.

The trammeling effect, tendency to follow road variation, is much worse on the street. Adding additional camber or toe may improve it.

GTS_Bruce brings up a good point in his post. Have you changed your suspension at all with lowering caps, shocks, springs, etc, or is it still stock? Have you changed your alignment from factory specs? Mine is still all stock.
 

GR8_ASP

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All stock. The difference is the tires. I have gone back and forth several times this year between Cups and Pilots.
 
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