Looking to mod my SRT-10, please help..

[Fadi]

Hey guys,

I have had my 2004 SRT-10 for 1 week and I already can't stand it being stock..

So, I am looking to get just a few mods to wake the car up a bit. What do you think of my choices?

1) 3.55 gear
2) RT high flow cats
3) K&N intake kit (w/ the smooth tube)
4) Tune

My biggest concern is the gears. I don't plan on any big mods at all. No SC, TT, nitrous, etc. But, my question is:

Will the 3.55 gear help with the sotp feel from, lets say, a 40-140? At what mph will the 3.55 be at a disadvantage to the 3.07's?

Thanks in advance.

Fadi

 

[Fadi]

Ok, I just ordered the K&N intake kit and the RT high flow cats from Jon at Partsrack. Now, I am still debating about the gears. Can someone shed some light on my above concern in regards to the 3.55's? Thanks

 

[onerareviper]

IMO, Other than top speed (maybe 10-15 MPH less, ballpark), the 3.55 will only increase performance across the board. This statement hold true if you are going to stay relatively stock (no nitrous/SC/TT), since wheel spin should not be a major issue. Do a search on the word GEARS by my user name ONERAREVIPER. We discussed this at length and have links to some pretty good information. Of course, most are referring to the Gen II and not Gen III, but the concepts remain the same.

 

[onerareviper]

One other thing to consider. With a Paxton SC ($6-$7K I think) you can put down 650 RWHP+. This is with EVERYTHING else remaining bone stock. So, if you're going the road of gears + cats + intake + headers + exhaust you may be better off skipping all that and just installing the Paxton. Much more bang for the buck, and not much more $$$. A lot depends on how you are going to use the car. If road racing is your gig, the SC is probably not the best choice.

 

[Fadi]

One other thing to consider. With a Paxton SC ($6-$7K I think) you can put down 650 RWHP+. This is with EVERYTHING else remaining bone stock. So, if you're going the road of gears + cats + intake + headers + exhaust you may be better off skipping all that and just installing the Paxton. Much more bang for the buck, and not much more $$$. A lot depends on how you are going to use the car. If road racing is your gig, the SC is probably not the best choice.

I am not looking to get any kind of big power mods.

What do you guys think about getting a tune with the K&N air intake kit and high flow cats? Will it be worth it?

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Low profile lowering caps. I alway feel the SRT/10 & Coupe should be lower. IMO This would be on my first mod list.

http://partsrack.blastmart.com/customer/product.php?productid=1330&cat=149&page=1

 

[Fadi]

But, my question is:

Will the 3.55 gear help with the sotp feel from, lets say, a 40-140? At what mph will the 3.55 be at a disadvantage to the 3.07's? Also, are these cars pretty detuned from the factory? Would a tune be helpful with smooth tube, filters, and high flow cats?

Thanks in advance.

Fadi

Anyone?

 

[Fadi]

Low profile lowering caps. I alway feel the SRT/10 & Coupe should be lower. IMO This would be on my first mod list.

http://partsrack.blastmart.com/customer/product.php?productid=1330&cat=149&page=1

Thanks, I will look into this

 

[RichieSRT10]

My first mod was a supercharger. By far the most bang for the buck. You start adding up the price of the other mods you were thinking of and the Paxton is not that far off. Superior power and all the stock characteristics remain the same until you start making some boost. Boost= More Viper Smiles Per Mile.

 

[INSOMNIAC]

But, my question is:

Will the 3.55 gear help with the sotp feel from, lets say, a 40-140? At what mph will the 3.55 be at a disadvantage to the 3.07's? Also, are these cars pretty detuned from the factory? Would a tune be helpful with smooth tube, filters, and high flow cats?

Thanks in advance.

Fadi

Anyone?

First of all, I agree with others here that the best bang for the buck mod is the Paxton supercharger. It's a nice kit and will give you serious power on the street. You can keep the rest of the car stock and you will still hit 620-630 RWHP which is not bad at all. To reach to that level NA (naturally aspirated) will cost you a fortune.

If you want to keep your car NA and just go with bolt-ons. First do the gears. 3.55 will make the car much stronger throughout the power band and with just bolt on mods you won't have Big traction issues. Change the shifter too cause you'll be using it more frequently. Stock shifter *****.

As for the Random Tech cats... The best cat is the one that doesn't exist. I'd say dump the cats and run straight pipes (will be loud) or mufflers instead. Smooth tube and filters will get you +5 HP max. Having the car tuned on dyno will get you much more. The 3.55's will shave a little from your dyno numbers but they'll make you fly on the street.

Good luck.

 

[Fadi]

I am not looking to get my car loud. The reason why an exhaust was not on my list initially because I want to keep my car on the quite side, hence, I ordered the RT high flow cats.

As for the gear, let me put it this way:

If 2 SRT-10's were to race, both being bone stock, with one of them having the stock gears and the other having the 3.55's, who would win from a 40-150 punch?

 

[quick2tr]

As for the gear, let me put it this way:

If 2 SRT-10's were to race, both being bone stock, with one of them having the stock gears and the other having the 3.55's, who would win from a 40-150 punch?

The 3.55 would win to 135.
The 3.07 would win to 150.

The reason is the 5th gear would be required for the 3.55 to achieve 150mph and the ratio is not close (unlike 2-4).

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Which mod will make you faster at drag racing or road racing?

First a stock Viper has massive torque that will easily smoke the tires excessively. More hp will only make launching more difficult. From a rolling start depending on road, tire and temperature conditions; smoking the tires may or may not be a problem.

For drag racing launch control is critical. To acquire good launch control practice.

Road racing is more complicated will much more driving skill required. First step take a Skip Barber Performance Driving School and repeat as often as needed. Basic Mods for the car: Roll Bar, and CC oil pan. Look at the Viper Days website and compare the track lap times within a class then compare fastest lap of lower class with higher classes. This will make it very clear that the best Mod for going fast is knowing how to drive.

If you read this and are thinking I already know how to drive go to a Viper Days Event and see how much you know about driving.

 

[Andy 98 RT/10]

Which mod will make you faster at drag racing or road racing?

First a stock Viper has massive torque that will easily smoke the tires excessively. More hp will only make launching more difficult. From a rolling start depending on road, tire and temperature conditions; smoking the tires may or may not be a problem.

For drag racing launch control is critical. To acquire good launch control practice.

Road racing is more complicated will much more driving skill required. First step take a Skip Barber Performance Driving School and repeat as often as needed. Basic Mods for the car: Roll Bar, and CC oil pan. Look at the Viper Days website and compare the track lap times within a class then compare fastest lap of lower class with higher classes. This will make it very clear that the best Mod for going fast is knowing how to drive.

If you read this and are thinking I already know how to drive go to a Viper Days Event and see how much you know about driving.

I think he was more interested in modifications to the car, not racing school information- which is easily available on the web.

 

[Fadi]

As for the gear, let me put it this way:

If 2 SRT-10's were to race, both being bone stock, with one of them having the stock gears and the other having the 3.55's, who would win from a 40-150 punch?

The 3.55 would win to 135.
The 3.07 would win to 150.

The reason is the 5th gear would be required for the 3.55 to achieve 150mph and the ratio is not close (unlike 2-4).

This is what I was looking for. Thanks. Does anyone else have any opinions on this?

 

[SylvanSRT]

i think that Freds point is that the capabilites of the stock SRT-10 are higher than the ability of most of its drivers. Getting to the conclusion that the best way to make a Viper faster is to make its owner a better driver, in addition to finding out what his intended use is with the desired mods. Fadi and Andy you should get a hold of me and come out to Waterford Hill Road course and see what you cars were designed to be able to do. It's a great track. I have driven near 4000 miles around this 1.4 mile track, it's the most fun you can have with your clothes on!

 

[GR8_ASP]

My best rendition of what a gear ratio changes (assumes no traction limit though). Thrust is directly comparable to acceleration.

 

[KenricGTS]

PAXTON!!!!!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Mike, you make some great points as getting the most out of a car takes lots of time and experience (and training too). However, if you are able to wring 9/10's out of a car having a car that is more capable should yield more real performance. It generally never hurts to have more at your disposal (at least up to the pocket book max).

If I could afford to "play" at the track in an F1 car I would jump at it, regardless of my ability to wring 10/10's out of it.

 

[INSOMNIAC]

The 3.55 would win to 135.
The 3.07 would win to 150.

The reason is the 5th gear would be required for the 3.55 to achieve 150mph and the ratio is not close (unlike 2-4).

I disagree.

At 135 mph
The 3.55 will be in 5th gear
The 3.07 will be in 4th gear

At 150 mph
The 3.55 will again be in 5th gear at a higher rpm
the 3.07 will again be in 4th gear at a higher rpm

If we agree that the 3.55 will win to 135 mph, it will easily win to 150 mph as the 3.55 will be in its sweet torque spot while the 3.07 will be almost hitting the rev limiter.

So the Viper with the 3.55 gears would win both to 135 mph and 150 mph granted that eiter of them doesn't smoke the tires through gears. Probably a roll on race or both Vipers taking off around idle and easing into the gas would be appropriate.

The 3.55 will increase the acceleration of the Viper dramatically compared to a stock 3.07.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Which mod will make you faster at drag racing or road racing?

First a stock Viper has massive torque that will easily smoke the tires excessively. More hp will only make launching more difficult. From a rolling start depending on road, tire and temperature conditions; smoking the tires may or may not be a problem.

For drag racing launch control is critical. To acquire good launch control practice.

Road racing is more complicated will much more driving skill required. First step take a Skip Barber Performance Driving School and repeat as often as needed. Basic Mods for the car: Roll Bar, and CC oil pan. Look at the Viper Days website and compare the track lap times within a class then compare fastest lap of lower class with higher classes. This will make it very clear that the best Mod for going fast is knowing how to drive.

If you read this and are thinking I already know how to drive go to a Viper Days Event and see how much you know about driving.

I think he was more interested in modifications to the car, not racing school information- which is easily available on the web.

1. The web has more info for after market parts than Performance Driving Schools.

2. The Viper's massive torque makes 3:54's or lower of no value in my opinion. Have been there and will not go back. Some owners might like the feel of lower gearing. Which for me was short lived. Lower gearing also makes wheel spin easier which requires more driving skill to overcome. Exit speed is King on a road course, lower gears makes car control even more important. In my opinion.

3. To Many new owners have accidents in the early part of ownership of a performance car. Lowering the gear ratio helps wheel spin increasing the chance of loss of control. New owners do not know that Skip Barber has discounts for VCA members, from 25-10% depending on the program. A Skip Barber performance driving school exposes drivers to all aspects of Vehicle dynamics and hands on training.

A driving school is more likely to prevent someone from having an accident then a lower gear ratio. And will increase a drivers performance on road courses and maximize the pleasure of the Viper ownership experience.

SylvanSRT - you are 100% on target.

 

[Fadi]

The 3.55 would win to 135.
The 3.07 would win to 150.

The reason is the 5th gear would be required for the 3.55 to achieve 150mph and the ratio is not close (unlike 2-4).

I disagree.

At 135 mph
The 3.55 will be in 5th gear
The 3.07 will be in 4th gear

At 150 mph
The 3.55 will again be in 5th gear at a higher rpm
the 3.07 will again be in 4th gear at a higher rpm

If we agree that the 3.55 will win to 135 mph, it will easily win to 150 mph as the 3.55 will be in its sweet torque spot while the 3.07 will be almost hitting the rev limiter.

So the Viper with the 3.55 gears would win both to 135 mph and 150 mph granted that eiter of them doesn't smoke the tires through gears. Probably a roll on race or both Vipers taking off around idle and easing into the gas would be appropriate.

The 3.55 will increase the acceleration of the Viper dramatically compared to a stock 3.07.

Now who do I believe? This is what I am looking for as that is what will impact my decision.

 

[Andy 98 RT/10]

Which mod will make you faster at drag racing or road racing?

First a stock Viper has massive torque that will easily smoke the tires excessively. More hp will only make launching more difficult. From a rolling start depending on road, tire and temperature conditions; smoking the tires may or may not be a problem.

For drag racing launch control is critical. To acquire good launch control practice.

Road racing is more complicated will much more driving skill required. First step take a Skip Barber Performance Driving School and repeat as often as needed. Basic Mods for the car: Roll Bar, and CC oil pan. Look at the Viper Days website and compare the track lap times within a class then compare fastest lap of lower class with higher classes. This will make it very clear that the best Mod for going fast is knowing how to drive.

If you read this and are thinking I already know how to drive go to a Viper Days Event and see how much you know about driving.

I think he was more interested in modifications to the car, not racing school information- which is easily available on the web.

1. The web has more info for after market parts than Performance Driving Schools.

2. The Viper's massive torque makes 3:54's or lower of no value in my opinion. Have been there and will not go back. Some owners might like the feel of lower gearing. Which for me was short lived. Lower gearing also makes wheel spin easier which requires more driving skill to overcome. Exit speed is King on a road course, lower gears makes car control even more important. In my opinion.

3. To Many new owners have accidents in the early part of ownership of a performance car. Lowering the gear ratio helps wheel spin increasing the chance of loss of control. New owners do not know that Skip Barber has discounts for VCA members, from 25-10% depending on the program. A Skip Barber performance driving school exposes drivers to all aspects of Vehicle dynamics and hands on training.

A driving school is more likely to prevent someone from having an accident then a lower gear ratio. And will increase a drivers performance on road courses and maximize the pleasure of the Viper ownership experience.

SylvanSRT - you are 100% on target.

I've actually completed courses at a few high performance driving schools myself, so I know their value. It just seems like every other thing you post is about going to driving school, even when it isn't related to the discussion.

 

[quick2tr]

Now who do I believe? This is what I am looking for as that is what will impact my decision.

Fadi,

The 3.55 is a popular upgrade, and most are extremely happy with it.

Gearing should be used to optimize the performance for a specific track.

If your track is the 1/4 mile, then the overwhelming consensus would be to install the 3.55.

If your track is specifically 40-150mph, then you should think seriously about whether you want your race to include the over-tall 5th gear (regardless of your final drive gear). Personally, I wouldn't.

 

[Fadi]

Now who do I believe? This is what I am looking for as that is what will impact my decision.

Fadi,

The 3.55 is a popular upgrade, and most are extremely happy with it.

Gearing should be used to optimize the performance for a specific track.

If your track is the 1/4 mile, then the overwhelming consensus would be to install the 3.55.

If your track is specifically 40-150mph, then you should think seriously about whether you want your race to include the over-tall 5th gear (regardless of your final drive gear). Personally, I wouldn't.

Thanks quick, I think I might just hold off on them for now. Thanks for the prompt response.

 

[SylvanSRT]

Andy like i said, Fred's point was, (IMO and digested)how and where will the cars and drivers capabilities are going to be exploited. Which can give the people who experience in these types of uses can give the best information and guide a newcomer to the best use of his modification dollar and bang for the $.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Fadi, I cannot tell you who to believe (unless having everything in bold influences you ).

However, the curves I presented above, which everyone seems to ignore are real. Measured on my car. Whoever said that the 3.73 would be equal from 135 to 150 is wrong. Only AT 150 do the vehicle thrusts become equal. The 3.07 averages over 10% higher thrust during that time. Since the time from 135 to 150 is long (5 seconds), that 10% will be applied for a long time (and results in a .4 second advantage during that specific interval).

I quickly used my drag racing program to calculate both with my dynoed results (stock).
It indicates from 130 to 150 the 3.07 takes 0.4 seconds less than the 3.73 (5.1 sec vs 5.5 sec). The race to 1 mile was almost exactly even in time, but at that moment the 3.73 was 1.6 mph higher. But from there 3.07 still has 20 mph more to go and the 3.73 is done. As I indicated before gears are not magic. Changing them only optimizes performance in certain windows, while degrading it in others. Over the long haul they will be close to equal. Though on their way to 170 the lead car shifts back and forth depending on which has the gear ratio advantage at that moment.

 

[GR8_ASP]

This is the quote that I was referring to as incorrect, at least by my calculations.

If we agree that the 3.55 will win to 135 mph, it will easily win to 150 mph as the 3.55 will be in its sweet torque spot while the 3.07 will be almost hitting the rev limiter.

 

[INSOMNIAC]

This is the quote that I was referring to as incorrect, at least by my calculations.

If we agree that the 3.55 will win to 135 mph, it will easily win to 150 mph as the 3.55 will be in its sweet torque spot while the 3.07 will be almost hitting the rev limiter.

Fadi,

I didn't draw curves and make calculations based on these curves, etc like Ron (GR8_ASP) did. It's not an issue of whom to believe or not to believe. There are lots of parameters affecting the time it takes a Viper to reach to 135 mph or 150 mph. I'm just speaking based on my experience with driving 4.10 Z06's and 3.55 Gen 2's. The car with the gears just feels much faster. Mine is totally a subjective evaluation.

A gear ratio that might be perfect for one track might be the worst for another track. An extreme example is that Formula-1 cars use 5 gears on some tracks and use 7 gears on some other tracks. The perfect gear ratio depends on RWHP, RWTQ, tire and wheel choice, differential choice, personal driving characteristics, application (track, street or strip), specific features of that track, plus a million things and off course the availability of the perfect ratio gears. Like 3.33's are not available now.

If you are going to stay NA, I would recommend going with 3.55's. It just makes the car feel much stronger. This is just my personal choice after driving Vipers with high gears. Perhaps, the best thing for you to do would be driving a Viper with 3.55's. Then, you'll know what you want.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Not to be disagreeable (though I had a BAD day today and may have been venting), I have to say I agree completely with what you just said. Higher ratio "feels" faster, but is not always so. And if you do not have a defined venue no one can answer which will be better.