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Steve Ferguson

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First off, since you LOVE the LOOKS so much, what was the first year of your Viper ownership? I am guessing that since the LOOKS are so GREAT that you have a 92-93 somewhere? I mean, how could someone wait all those years if the LOOKS where so much of a draw?

As for performance that matters: how about the fastest car ever tested 0-100-0! When the numbers get released the only car on the planet that will be able to lay claim to that title is the SRT/10. Now please don't tell me that these are numbers that most Viper owners will never see? If that's the case then you should stick to the car show circuit. LOL (was that OK Jon)
 

Steve Ferguson

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BTW, Venom if you can settle for going slower why not get a ZO6 and save some $$$?

If you can't understand the enormous advantage that 1-2 seconds on a road course or 1-.05 seconds means in a drag race, then you should keep what you have.

For those that want the ultimate performance, we will gladly view you in the rear view mirror of our SRT/10's and enjoy a coke at the finish line while you are finishing your run!
 
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Team Viper/PVO asked us (VCA) what we wanted via meeting at VOI 5&6 as well as a mailer. At the VOI meetings the typical request was for better brakes, more power, lose weight, improve handling. There were request for cup holders and cruise control but these request were not supported by most of the attendees. Bottom line, the new car must be "King of The Hill"!

I have owned 4 Vipers including a 96RT and do love these cars. I am also looking forward to the new RT. Is there another rag top that can compare performance and styling to the SRT10?
 

Mike Brunton

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Venom,

I love your characterization of the two groups "you non-whiners keep saying that we whiners...." LMFAO... that is hilarious man.. you can't make that stuff up!
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I really think that the folks who have golden child status at PVO/Dodge (Joe Houss, Steve F.) probably wouldn't say anything other than "the looks are based on the performance". I DON'T mean that as an insult to those guys at all - because I completely understand. They're "on the team" in a way. I think the looks do follow the performance somewhat, but as Venom knows (and all of us know, whether we admit it or not), the looks we changed primarily to attract a different market. But taking our theory one step further, I think Dodge is really allowing the SRT to grow up. It won't be nearly as rough around the edges. I think the handling will be greatly improved. Performance (including and especially braking) will be vastly improved. The Viper will never again be thought of as a big-motor car with horrible brakes and lots of compromises in it's design. Maybe we'll even get some of those Porsche and Ferrari guys to take the car seriously. For anyone who still doesn't "get it", let me spell it out. I hate to break it to ya, but Dodge doesn't really CARE if you like the new SRT, in my opinion. In order to make this car mature and enter the top ranks of performance and desirability, the looks were changed to keep them in line with what the intended market will demand. Dodge probably knows there is a limited intersection between the new market and the current one... you guys who don't like the SRT... well, your opinion and loyalty to the Viper was sacrificed to give us this new car. They could have made the performance better and kept the car as swoopy as it is now - but it woulnd't sell for 10 more years. They did what they did to ensure the car's future. I think the SRT is MORE aggressive than the GTS actually... not as beautiful, but more aggressive. I think Steve F. is right that more original RT buyers like the SRT than GTS guys... just an opinion.

I think I "get it" with the new SRT-10. I really like the car alot, and I'm appreciating what Dodge has done with it more and more every day. This is gonna be one SMOKIN car... yeah, the looks leave something to be desired for some, but I'm all over this car - and I cannot WAIT to get mine.

Rick,

I've already said Dodge is giving me an SRT for supporting it... If I can get the #1 car delivered, I'll be happy as a pig in swill! It will be at NED the next weekend, and when winter hits, it will get the turbos strapped on
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BigsViper

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Brunton:
....But taking our theory one step further, I think Dodge is really allowing the SRT to grow up.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike, an interesting comment from someone who holds so desperately and vainly to their youth, all the while giving us "grown-up's" a hard time!
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Brunton:
....I've already said Dodge is giving me an SRT for supporting it... If I can get the #1 car delivered, I'll be happy as a pig in swill! It will be at NED the next weekend, and when winter hits, it will get the turbos strapped on
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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My advice here Mike, if you get your SRT on a Monday, you will need to drive it two hundred miles a day at reduced RPM in order to break it in properly prior to your drag strip excursion on the weekend. Otherwise you might risk the wrath of team PVO and warranty nullification!
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And finally a question...

Will NED require you to install a roll cage on that 11 second beast??
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No Flames Intended... Just My Opinion
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Steve Ferguson

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I am not concerned about the looks because I think the SRT/10 looks BETTER than MY RT/10! Sorry to disappoint you, but I have been all over the new SRT/10, inside and out, and it BLOWS AWAY my RT/10 in EVERY category except the pure raw factor.

I have jumped up and down ******** about the fact that the SRT/10 has no air delete option and a dead pedal. Sorry, that tells me mainstream more than the looks do. Now are they going to change it because I do not like these items, no.

As Fred stated above, if when given the chance to influence the future Viper, more of you would have said "don't change a thing" rather than what was asked for, then maybe today you would get the SAME Viper with 10-15 more HP. I just don't get the fact that anyone is crying about something that the majority of this exact group asked for?

BTW, I was wondering how much influence you have had on other vehicles you drive?
 

Steve Ferguson

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Mako, I am not certain that the SRT/10 numbers are better than the McLearen, but the current record holder, at least on these shores, has been the Cobra, 0-100-0 in 12.8. Does the McLearen go faster than that? I didn't think the McLearen was legal in the USA since it could not meet our emissions standards?
 

BigsViper

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I know a guy here in Midland with a McLaren F1 and it is licensed and driven on the street, so I'm pretty sure they are legal. Now whether they would be considered a production car based on the numbers is another issue.
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The new requisite sig...

No Flames Intended - Just My Opinion
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kverges

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The SRT is definitely intended to broaden market appeal and capture folks that want a more mainstream car. You think I am wrong? Look at the thread on dinner with PVO managers and the questions posed:

1. Stripes?
2. Chrome exhaust tips?
3. Hardtop & how to attach it?

Most of the performance numbers asked about were "braggin" stats like 0-60 times and top speed. Precious few questions on hard-core track driving prowess were posed. Heck, I was surprised no one asked about cup holders and the stereo ;-)

Let's face facts; the market is nearing saturation with the current car and what it represents. Also, the economy is such that a broader market appeal and some comfort/practicality are probably essential to sustain sales. My friends in the business are literally selling UNDER INVOICE for the "beloved" GTS in its current iteration. If the market loves the GTS so very much, and the new car is so dreaded, why aren't the last GTSs being snapped up in a feeding frenzy?

DC is changing course with this car, which has the potential to offer greater performance, more conservative styling and comfort. IMO, DC is not going after the Corvette crowd as much as BMW, Porsche, Jaguar, Lexus, and maybe to recapture some M-B folks who have left the fold because the SL-series has gotten TOO soft. Remember we are talking a $80,000 sports car and many buyers want classic, understated prestige as much as anything else. DC can now point to European racing heritage and success and has built a marque with some panache in the last 10 years. This car may be poised to capitalize on the past, while appealing to buyers who find the current car too brazen, cartoonish and attention-getting. Some folks want to quietly impress the way a Benz will impress, rather than draw every teenager and hotrodder at every gas station. The deomgraphics of this car has owners who are primarily 50-something and successful business owners, not 20 year old rich hotrodders (and the easy money dot-com days appear to be behind us, so the age bias will likely remain or strengthen).

As far as I am concerned, the jury is out. I have one ordered, and if it does not spank my GTS at the MotorSport ranch and other tracks, it is gone to the first poseur with $ I can find, before word gets out that the car is wimpy, wimpy, wimpy. I am optimistic, though, that the car will more than make up in performance anything it might lack in outrageous, ****, styling. Plus, I admit that I enjoy my '01 in large part because I can daily drive it, unlike my '93. I have put over 8,000 miles on my GTS in the first year, rain, shine, even through ice storms. I can go to the track or go to a mid-day appointment with a suit and tie in August heat. I look forward to daily driving the SRT, too.

Lets face it, change hurts but in the long run can be a good thing.

Enough drivel from here . . . .
 

Steve Ferguson

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There is one here in Chicago, but the owner has it registered in England, and I know this one is not street legal, but he has a one year exemption to drive it here. I really do not know what their official status is either that is why I asked.

They may be in the USA, but I don't ever remember one being tested with the legal emissions equipment on it?
 
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I am sure the SRT10 will provide much improved performance, like better brakes, more power, improved suspension-handling, with less weight. All this in a clean looking rag top.

I ask those who do not like the SRT10 styling to name one rag top with better styling! I have asked this question before and there are no answers! Cup holders excluded!
 

Venom Lover

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Keith,

Interesting and well thought out points. I hope for DC's sake they don't think they're going after the Corvette crowd with the SRT, because they've priced themselves at least $20K out of the picture if so. On the other hand, let's think about the mentality of someone who buys a Porsche, Jaguar, or the other top-end marques you list.

Porsche-buyer mentality (sorry for the gross generalization): I'm buying a Porsche because it's a Porsche and Porsches are the best sports cars. I pulled up next to a drop-top Porsche at a stop light and asked what kind of motor he had and what horsepower. He said "Oh, it's a V6 or V8, and it's very fast." You get the picture. Not a car guy. Porsche guys are into the "image" that Porsches project, and let's face it, a Dodge will never project that image. Don't kid yourself about a few Le Mans seasons creating "European racing heritage". Dodge will always be way behind Porsche, Ferrari, etc. in European racing heritage.

Now let's talk about Jaguar guys (and gals). They're into all the connolly leather, burled walnut, etc. How many Jags do you see at your local drag strip? Once every 5 times out or so, I may see an errant XJR at the drag strip, and I've never seen one road racing. In general the Jaguar crowd isn't buying a car to be a sports car. Anyway, I could keep going down the list, but I'm struggling to believe that the SRT will result in converting a lot of people who are in the luxury marque market.

That being said, I agree that it looks like the current Viper market is saturated and so Dodge had to change something. I guess we'll wait and see how successful this particular strategy is.

Steve,

You missed my point. I had a Z06 and I sold it because it was too slow. I race my cars. I am not a poseur. I like the fact that the SRT has a big honkin motor, better brakes, better suspension, etc. No argument there. What I'm saying is this: given that basic package, do you style the car to be outrageous or average in looks? The few hundredths of Cd it would cost to make the looks more outrageous won't make a hill of beans difference in 0-60, 1/4 mile, 60-0, 0-100-0, or any other test other than top end. So, let's face it, the styling choice had nothing to do with performance and saying "Dodge is giving you what you asked for -- performance above all else" is no answer to why the styling is bland. How much would one of the more aggressive design studies cost in your aforementioned 0-100-0 test given the same motor, brakes, and suspension? Almost nothing at all.

On the other subject, Ameritech did a U.S. street-legal conversion of the McLaren F1 for customers including Jay Leno and Larry Ellison. So, sorry to say, the SRT will have to beat the F1, even if you change your tune from "fastest car ever tested" to "fastest U.S. street legal car ever tested." Even that backpedal won't save your argument!

Finally, the main reason I didn't buy a Viper in the early '90s is because I couldn't afford it. Plain and simple.

Ok, I'm done ranting for now. Believe me, I hope more than anyone else that I will end up loving my black SRT when it arrives. I'm just a pessimist by nature. And tenacious. In case you hadn't noticed.
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Steve Ferguson

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Venom, thanks for a great post, I was laughing my a$$ off on that Porsche driver thing.

As for the record, go to the Guinness book, in there is a record that is held by the Shelby Cobra of 0-100-0. I am not certain for what the exact title is, but it is in there.

The fact that you have a SRT/10 on order is all I need to know. Judging from what I have seen, it is only a matter of time before you understand all of the BEAUTY that it brings to the table.
 

VEETENN

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve Ferguson:
Venom, thanks for a great post, I was laughing my a$$ off on that Porsche driver thing.

As for the record, go to the Guinness book, in there is a record that is held by the Shelby Cobra of 0-100-0. I am not certain for what the exact title is, but it is in there.

The fact that you have a SRT/10 on order is all I need to know. Judging from what I have seen, it is only a matter of time before you understand all of the BEAUTY that it brings to the table.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I remember seeing a Viper video or TV program that stated the 0-100-0 record set by the Cobra (less than 13sec.) was done using a one off prototype not a production Cobra, a production Cobra wouldn't have been that fast. Has anyone else heard that?
 

Tenney

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Keep in mind that the 0-100-0 test was perhaps more a marketing exercise than a standard method of test. As such, 0-100-0 figures are available for very few cars. There may be a car or two, in addition to the F1, that could better the reported Cobra figure.
 

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