Oil Starvation and Pan Thread

[xentec]

I have a stock gen III and on a road race track in the corners I get an uncomfortable drop in oil PSI. Reading through threads and asking around people recommended either the Comp Coupe oil pan or a swing-arm pan like the one from ViperSpecialtyPerformance.

I also have a buddy who has a CC oil pan on his stock 06 and blew the engine while out on the track. Although his engine oil level was around 1/2 full, people said the oil level needs to at or above the full mark with the CC oil pan. Is this true?

I have also read other posts about people blowing engines with the CC oil pan.

Any experiences with the cc pan or a swing-arm pan?
Which pan is better?
Will the 08 pan fit on a gen III car?
Will any of these pans void my extended warranty?
Anyone selling a pan? (PM me)
Viper Specialty posted about a Gen-3 dry sump... whatever happened to that?

 

[Viper Specialty]

1. Yes, both. There have been failures with the CC pan. No failures to date with our modified 08 version, and there are a LOT of them out there already.
2. I think the results speak for themselves, and the differences are highlighted in the product catalog on our website.
https://www.viperspecialtyperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=73_34&products_id=97
3. Not directly, hence our upgrade kit.
4. Only if your dealer is nitpicking. In which case, find a new dealer. They are all technically Mopar parts when you break it down.
5. We have both versions in stock, (2) New '08 kits, and a used CC kit.
6. Dry Sump is far too expensive to market to the masses. Most people arent willing to spend 7500 bucks + AND lose trunk space for an upgrade with is only a TAD better than its counterparts.

 

[CCBrian]

I race a CC and have never noticed a drop in oil pressure, nor have we recorded one. Yes, we check oil between all runs but my car has never needed any oil added even after a long race weekend. I pull more corning forces in the CC than most moded Vipers. Either of the above pans should be fine. Dan, you sure the pan was the problem? I personally never heard of that being an issue if the car is prepped properly.
Brian Barnes

 

[vp97]

The CC pan is just a band-aid. Go with the 08 setup from VSP.

 

[JonB]

..............I also have a buddy who has a CC oil pan on his stock 06 and blew the engine while out on the track. Although his engine oil level was around 1/2 full, people said the oil level needs to at or above the full mark with the CC oil pan. Is this true?..............

Do we take that literally? If so, you have your answer.....

 

[Shandon]

have your answer.....

The clouds parted and a great light showed forth and a "ahh haa" moment happened (I read it like that too). John beat me to it

I run 11 quarts in my CCpan and have never had an issue and I have never seen oil PSI drop much if ever. I also run Motul 15/50 thats costs more than I care to share

 

[Viper X]

CC pan = band aid? You cannot be serious. The CC pan and pickup was designed for a race car that is lighter, has much better downforce, comes with sticky Hoosiers and will pull more G's than any street car, including the new Vipers and the new ACR.

Do you really think Tommy Archer and other pro racers pull the OE CC oil pan and put a 08/09 oil pan on their world challenge comp coupes????

Answer is simple. CC pan works just fine. Car must be properly prepped and maintained as stated above.

I've pulled a sustained 1.3 G's (on Hooisers at Auto Club Speedway's high speed oval ) in my 2006 SRTC with a CC oil pan and never noticed any loss of oil pressure. Many others have as well.

Daniel's set up is very effective and about 1/2 the cost. His set up is what I'd buy at this point in time; but don't beat up on race proven technology.

Dan

 

[Viper Specialty]

To answer some of the above questions:

-YES, there have indeed been failures with CC pans, both on and off Comp Coupes.

-YES, we most certainly have sold our version to CC owners to REPLACE the Comp Coupe Pans.

-YES, the setup we sell is heavily based on the 2008-2009 production parts.

-The CC pan has been around for a long time. It is a mix of two different pan designs, and as such has its limitations. ANYONE who sees one from the inside can attest to this fact, and ANYONE who sees the two designs side-by-side cannot deny the shortcomings of the CC pan when compared to its newer counterpart. Its THAT obvious.

-The 2008+ cars were fitted with an all-new swing-arm setup and Pan design. Considering that the CC pan already existed, if it was the ultimate solution, would they not have gone in that direction? It would have saved a LOT of R&D, supplier issues and machine time. Face it, the CC pan is a band-aid based on an old problem and an old design. You cannot call it anything else since it took blowing up a bunch of engines for them to figure out it needed to be fixed in the first place. A problem that was known about full well when heading into the 2008+ engine design, and was ultimately cured with a more complete solution.



I sell both versions, and have both in stock. It makes no difference to me which is purchased, but from my mechanical engineering schooling, I can tell you which design is better, without question.


Once I finally get the CC pan off the car in here, I will post a Side-By-Side of the two systems. [Isnt going to be anytime too soon though...]

 

[Paul S Lacey]

Got to say I love Dans part the engineering and the thought that went into the design is great.

I did investigate the CC pan but some race teams in the UK have had failures on the CC design and I liked the idea of a swing arm which travels with the oil.

 

[Viper X]

Question for Daniel,

What oil pan and pick up is currently being installed on new comp coupes???

Has the original cc oil pan and pick up been updated or are they still using the same one?

Dan

 

[Viper Specialty]

Question for Daniel,

What oil pan and pick up is currently being installed on new comp coupes???

Has the original cc oil pan and pick up been updated or are they still using the same one?

Dan

-So far as I know, the CC pan is the only part which they use/have used on the Comp Coupes, save a few that went dry-sump i heard about.

-I have heard rumors of there being a change, but could never nail down WHEN it occurred, nor confirm it actually happening. All I know is that every time I see a CC pan, its the same thing every time... so I have grown leery about any changes actually happening, or being big enough to matter. The Pan I have here now was from early 2007 [which as I recall was a good bit after these "changes", and it still certainly appears to be the same thing as all of the rest of them. I had originally modified a few CC pans back in 05-06 or so to fix some of the issues I saw with them, and I wonder if these corrections once circulated around didnt start the buzz about changes in some way.

 

[GR8_ASP]

So Daniel, how do the various versions stack up for effectiveness:
Stock pre-2008
Stock 2008+
Comp Coupe
Comp Coupe modified by you
2008+ modified by you

I believe I have a compcoupe pan modified by you and have not had any oil pressure loss issues on the track.

 

[CCBrian]

Actually the failures in the UK also happened to a few teams here earlier last year-and was due to bearing failures in the GT3 and Endurance motors-a manufacturing problem with a batch of bearings that has been corrected-not due to an oil pan problem. I got this info Tom Francis direct as well as an email for CC owners from Dodge addressing this exact issue. At the time I was interested in the new endurance motor and was told to hold off until the actual cause was determined by their engineers.I love how rumors start...

 

[Viper Specialty]

Actually the failures in the UK also happened to a few teams here earlier last year-and was due to bearing failures in the GT3 and Endurance motors-a manufacturing problem with a batch of bearings that has been corrected-not due to an oil pan problem. I got this info Tom Francis direct as well as an email for CC owners from Dodge addressing this exact issue. At the time I was interested in the new endurance motor and was told to hold off until the actual cause was determined by their engineers.I love how rumors start...

Hi Brian,

I know at least two of my customers involved with Comp Coupes have lost engines with CC oil pans in a very specific manner: Losing rod bearings 3 and/or 4. This failure is very specific of oil starvation, not of the manufacturing defect you speak of. These likely occurred right along side what you speak of.

 

[Viper Specialty]

So Daniel, how do the various versions stack up for effectiveness:
Stock pre-2008
Stock 2008+
Comp Coupe
Comp Coupe modified by you
2008+ modified by you

I believe I have a compcoupe pan modified by you and have not had any oil pressure loss issues on the track.

Hello,

If using a scale of 1-10 to compare them, 1 being a disaster on street tires, and 10 being as good as possible on a wet-sump like this;

[Note that the 2008 pans inner workings are unchanged whether they are std. or modified, so only one category is needed. Also note that one category where the std. CC pan falls a bit shorter would be very, very high accelleration rates in the 750+ horsepower cars, not so much affecting the regular CC's]

Stock 03-06: 3
Comp Coupe: 7
CC modified: 8.5
2008+: 10