Power/Performance guarantee..We need your help! LONG

MES

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I think the best approach is to be upfront and honest. By that I mean don't state the highest HP gain that you have ever recorded and then plaster those numbers all around. But instead state the average or typical gains that can be expected along with the maximum that can be had.

Having a Guarantee is good, but not just so you can make a sale by inflating/hyping a products performance. Do you think somebody that installs your ported heads and only picks up 40 rwhp instead of 50 is going to rip them back off and then return it for a refund, one answer -> NO. But will they tell others about your poor performing heads -> YES. So in the end it will come back to bite you if your not honest. It would be better to say "typically customers will pick up 50 rwhp however it can vary from 40-60 rwhp"

I think a better approach would be to offer a 30 day money back Guarantee. If the customer is not completely satisfied with the product (for whatever reason) you will take it back within 30 days as long as its not damaged and is in good condition. Yea, your going to take a loss (very small) but you will make much more sales to overcome it. The product being returned will be used and therefore can't be sold as new, but you still can probably sell it for close to YOUR original cost as a slightly used item.

Warranties are tricky. I would recommend you warranty the product being sold against defects, etc. and you will repair/replace them as you see fit. If the part fails because of improper instillation then YOU still warranty it. The reason behind this is, if it wasn't installed properly they YOU (Apex) did not do your job with helping the customer properly install it. Was the instructions clear? Did you talk to the customer or service tech while the instillation was being done? Did you follow up with the customer after instillation to make sure everything was done properly? If the part fails and causes other damage to the car then you (Apex) should pay to replace not only the bad part you sold, but also all the damage that it has caused. But ONLY if you (Apex) installed the parts and ONLY if the parts were being used as intended/advertised. This can be especially difficult if your head dropped a valve and destroyed the engine or a half shaft broke and bent up the suspension. So that's a tough call.

Also don't do the wimpy thing and say "Well its up to the manufacture if it's covered or not" Your customer purchased the product from Apex for what ever reason, so step up to the plate and take responsibility for what YOU sell.

I have only talked to Wayne one time on the phone and was pleased with his service. Anyway that's what I would recommend, the rest of the above comments were just hypothetical recommendations.
 

LTHL VPR

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We have had a number of outside inquiries and internal discussions here at APEX about providing a PERFORMANCE/POWER GUARANTEE with our products, parts, and packages. We decided that there was no one better than our current and future VIPER CUSTOMERS to help us out! So now is your chance to provide input for what a guarantee really means. You will see below how complicated this can become. We always aim to provide the best customer service before, during, and after a purchase. With a team of 6 people, it allows me to spend all day on the phone and in the shop talking to customers and helping them reach their Viper goals. Meanwhile, our mechanics can stay focused on getting work done in a timely manner.

Now before everyone jumps in, here are the issues to consider and some of our thoughts and experiences we lived in both the Viper and Mustang aftermarket world:
1)Power guarantee: Usually a horsepower/tq guarantee on a specific part; ie cam, heads, exhaust, etc.. We have seen them in the form of engine/crank hp and dyno hp.

*ENGINE HP CLAIMS: It is very common to see hp claims that do not hold up. If it is an engine hp, it makes it difficult to measure, and most people won't pay the price to truly test this method. Then the actual car comes into question. Is guarantee on a stock car, modified car, or a combination, and then, how should other mods effect the power in the end.

*DYNO HP CLAIMS: This becomes tricky because every dyno is different, and the correction factors come really into play. For example, we have tested a number of combinations that claim X hp improvement. Many times, our dyno numbers come up short. Is it our dyno...maybe, but doubtful since we have the latest/greatest dynojet and use the most current software version. Maybe it's better since our dyno seems like it yields conservative numbers.

* FLOW/CFM CLAIMS:It is very common for people to receive heads or intakes that SHOULD flow *** cfm. When tested independently, they could flow less and sometimes, MUCH less. Were they tested on a different machine with different test pressures at different conditions? If they are different, what is an acceptable difference (since like dynos, flow testing is seldom identical between different facilities)

In the end, it seems guaranteed dyno hp performance numbers make sense, but there are so many variables that can effect the power. Case in point, we normally install Belanger headers with a Corsa or Belanger cat-back and have dyno'd MANY cars with this combination. While many Viper owners claim 40-50 rwhp on the dyno with this setup, our dyno usually indicates only a 25-30 rwhp improvement. It obviously doesn't make sense that our cars would make less power with the same parts, so I assume it's the dyno.Hmmmm...

2)CUSTOMER RECOURSE: What should we/you do??
OK... SO let's say you purchase an exhaust system or cam, header, rocker, etc.. package. It gets installed, and for some reason the power isn't there.

*MARKETING TRICK OR THE REAL DEAL? This is where a PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE gets really tricky! Traditionally and unfortunately, this is where most guarantee's fall apart and are nothing more than a 'ploy, hoax, etc'. We have worked with manufacturers/vendors that quickly back peddle when these incidents come up. HERE's what happens: The vendor/manufacturer requires that you remove the parts(at your own expense), pack up the parts (at your own expense), ship them back to them (at your own expense), and then you will be credited either fully or partially for the parts. In the end, you would pay a ton to remove and THEN re-install your parts, and it doesn't make monetary sense. In the end, you lose and are 'stuck' with them. WE DON'T WANT TO OFFER THESE, that's for sure!

* SITUATIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES:What if the parts are not installed at the tuner, vendor, or manufacturer?

* Is it realistic to provide a guarantee if the parts/packages are installed somewhere other than the source and the power is not as advertised. Is the installer's fault, was something done wrong, or did the parts just nor perform as promised? The same customer recourse situation comes into play.


4) Last, but equally important is another type of promise, more of a WARRANTY. What is the parts don't work, or cause a major failure or breakdown? Not as common, but it certainly happens.
* How should these situations be dealt with? Was the car not maintained properly. Was there another problem going on? If there is a problem, do you have to bring it back to the tuner or manufacturer OR can another shop be compensated for the work?

SUMMARY:As you can see, this situation is complicated!
As for consumers, be smart!!! Have the tuner, vendor, manufacturer put everything in writing and sign it!! If you are not satisfied with the warranty/guarantee, then have them change it so you are comfortable with it. Our job is to keep you happy and satisfied!!

We would welcome any suggestions, comments, etc..
If you prefer, you can e-mail me privately.
Thanks for your time, and we look forward to working with you to help you reach your VIPER GOALS!!
Regards,
Wayne (LTHL VPR)
 

Marc Lublin

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Wayne,
Can't help you out there, too many variables and I wouldn't want to do your job for you. It is nice to see you care. Being someone who originally got screwed by a tuner, it's nice to see that a tuner actually cares after the sale. I don't think a 30 day guarentee can work on car parts though. If a part is installed on you motor, you should consider it married to the engine not to be remarried to another. Just had to give my 2 cents with all this tuner talk going on.
 
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