<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Welch:
Wow,
Looks like we gots us a few real scientists on this here board!
Propane injection is everywhere, including the trunks of hundreds of Vipers and other cars as a fuel supplement.
Grills, heaters, diesel trucks, tractors, rv's, industrial machinery, CIGARETTE LIGHTERS, and so on.
To be so narrow minded and rediculous in statements about propane use and storage in automotive applications only shows the ignorance of the poster.
Gasoline is far more flammable and its storage tank in all cars including the viper is far less stringent in its manufacture and testing requirements as a typical propane tank.
Just the facts.
Tom
Http://btrviper.com
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Typically the propane powered cars I've seen have the tanks mounted somewhere that is vented, and somewhere that is NOT in a crumple zone. Which is what the trunk in a viper is. It's designed to crush and absorb a rear end collision.
How many 18wheelers, fork lifts, etc, do you see with the propane tanks mounted on the back just hanging off where they could be crushed?
If you put a full propane tank and a full gas tank in the middle of a large field, opened the valve on the propane, and opened the lid on the gas tank, then shot them both with a gun, which would you think would explode first? I'd bet the propane. Propane vaporizes easier, which is when it's most explosive/flammable. The propane is also under pressure, so it's shooting out any hole/crack it can find. The gas will just sit there. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I do remember seeing a video of a guy holding a spark plug submerged in a small glass filled with gas, and sparked the plug, but nothing happened. Because it's mostly gas vapor that will start a fire. That stuff of cars exploding from a rear end collision is from the movies. Yes, it can and does happen, but not as easily as most think. Talk to a fireman, and they will probably tell you most of the car fires they see are electrical, not from crushing gas tanks. The gas tanks I saw at the local nissan plant that they use now are a highly pucture resistant plastic, which won't spark if punctured, and will bend and absorb a crash better than metal.
At the local uhaul station where I get my grill propane tank filled, there is a sign that says the propane tank MUST be vented on the ride home. (ie, it can't be in a trunk, it has to be in the cab with the windows open) I'm not sure if that is any kind of state or federal law, but are you sure about that?
I think it's funny you made fun of me by calling me a bad scientists when I just stated my opinion on the setup. Then, in response you compare driving around in a fast sports car with a big propane tank in your trunk to:
tractors - that's a good one, how many tractors you see doing over 10mph in anything other than a deserted field?
cig lights - this is my favorite... i have yet to see any lighters collide at 70mph while lighting a cigarette...
grills - see above
industrial machines - see above
rv's - all the rv's I've seen have them mounted on the tongue of the trailer in between the rv and towing truck fairly well protected, or somewhere away from where an accident could crush them.
forks lifts were mentioned - the tanks are mounted on the top of the rear end, out of the way of being crushed if another fork where to hit it at the 5-10mph that they do go...
If propane tanks have more stringent testing processes, wouldn't that signal that it's because they are more susceptible to explosions? Isn't it true that the current standard propane tanks were designed with a stationary product in mind? (ie, grill, or slow moving fork lift?)
If I am wrong about propane being more dangerous than gas tanks in a collision, and you are right when you say they are no more dangerous than gas, that means that by putting a propane tank in the back of your car, you are
DOUBLING your chance of an explosion in a rear end accident. So, even in the scenario that it isn't more dangerous than gas, you are still 2x your chance of an explosion.. but what if I'm right and it is more suscetible to explosion. What if your explosion chances are now 3x... or 10x... or 20x..???
I would consider a propane system if the tank was small enough, mounted in a non-crumple zone location and perhaps was a special vehicle tank that was designed with cars in mind, not grills or forklifts.
I'm not bashing you tom, i'm just giving my opinion. Much of which is just based on things I've picked up over the years. Can I give you a government study that says everything I just said is fact?
Nope. Can you give me one that says you're in no more danger with a big propane tank added in your trunk during a rear end accident, VS no propane tank and just your gas tank back there?
Nope
So, it just comes down to a matter of opinion. But seeing as you make your living off selling this stuff, thus making you a salesman, (and we all know how honest salesmen can be at times, right?) I will take your opinion with a grain of salt.
I am willing to change my opinion however, if honests, serious facts can be presented to show I'm wrong. Otherwise, my gut feeling is the best thing I've got to go on..
