Need1
Enthusiast
Hey Guys -
What would be the pros and cons of leasing an 05'?
What would be the pros and cons of leasing an 05'?
Pros/Cons of leasing...
- Thread starter Need1
- Start date
29OUTLAW
Viper Owner
Pros:
1 - You don't have to worry about resale value.
2 - You don't have to be super anal about cleaning and upkeep because of item #1 above.
3 - Most leases will allow you 12,000 miles a year. I'd love to have 12,000 miles a year. I'd drive my Viper every day. But since I own mine, I try and keep mileage low like most owners because of item #1 above.
4 - If you lease, the money you would have spent on owning could be invested to help make your lease payment. Kind of like having a free Viper.
5 - You can drive a new one every 2 years.
Cons:
1 - You can't brag at all the car shows about having clear title on your Viper.
I own mine but if I had to do it again, I would look really hard at leasing.
1 - You don't have to worry about resale value.
2 - You don't have to be super anal about cleaning and upkeep because of item #1 above.
3 - Most leases will allow you 12,000 miles a year. I'd love to have 12,000 miles a year. I'd drive my Viper every day. But since I own mine, I try and keep mileage low like most owners because of item #1 above.
4 - If you lease, the money you would have spent on owning could be invested to help make your lease payment. Kind of like having a free Viper.
5 - You can drive a new one every 2 years.
Cons:
1 - You can't brag at all the car shows about having clear title on your Viper.
I own mine but if I had to do it again, I would look really hard at leasing.
Need1
Enthusiast
What are some good tips for when i'm dealing with these salesmen...? What is a good price to ask for, for a 05' Mamba? I think the dealership is asking 85-88K but i've seen 05's from dealerships in ebay, brand new, for 75k
DodgeViper01
Enthusiast
Leasing a Viper, like any other exotic car is very tricky. The numbers on a Viper can be anywhere. I have seen payments from $479 a month for 36 months on a 01 RT/10 with low miles to $1600 a month for 24 months on a new SRT-10. Just depends where and how much of a sucker the buyer was, but guessing that you are looking at a brand new car at a MSRP of $85,000, a lease for 36 months will probably put you somewhere in the $1100 a month range with $5,000 down. Get a payment under $1000 a month and you got a good deal!
If you are looking to purchase, you might be able to get a little off the MSRP, but do not bet on it unless the dealer got in over their head. As much as I love eBay pricing, dealers do not care since they want the most for their car. That is why I said screw it and bought my car off of eBay. Even after shipping and taxes, I saved a bunch on a new MSO car.
My best suggestion to you is to wait either till the end of the year around winter time to get the best deal (at a dealer or eBay but eBay is BETTER!!!), or look on lease trader and you can get a car for a shorter or longer period of time. Either way, whatever you choose, good luck and enjoy the shopping experience. Finding the car is 1/2 the fun.
I think leasing is terrible. You get no equity, you own nothing for all the money you spend.
A benefit of leasing is it will allow you to "reach higher" in terms of the retail price of the car you go after which is nice but after the lease is over you have nothing to show for your money other than memories.
I leased a couple cars and it's something I will never do again. Do a retail purchase, make it 72 months, for instance, new SRT-10 ($85K + taxes/fees) on 72 months with nothing down would be around $1500/month, pay extra each month and knock down the amount of interest you pay.
Exception: If you are primarily using the vehicle for business then you would be wise to lease because of how you can expense it (for tax purposes)...but I do not think that is what is going on here.
anyway, that's my quick $.02 on leasing
-J
A benefit of leasing is it will allow you to "reach higher" in terms of the retail price of the car you go after which is nice but after the lease is over you have nothing to show for your money other than memories.
I leased a couple cars and it's something I will never do again. Do a retail purchase, make it 72 months, for instance, new SRT-10 ($85K + taxes/fees) on 72 months with nothing down would be around $1500/month, pay extra each month and knock down the amount of interest you pay.
Exception: If you are primarily using the vehicle for business then you would be wise to lease because of how you can expense it (for tax purposes)...but I do not think that is what is going on here.
anyway, that's my quick $.02 on leasing
-J
29OUTLAW
Viper Owner
Actually, here’s the breakdown on how much leasing really costs vs. buying…
Lets say you decide to plop down 80K on a new Viper. At the end of the first year, your Viper will be worth at most no more than 74K. At the end of the second year, your Viper will be worth no more than 68K. At the end of the third year…well, you get the idea. Basically, it’s costing you about 6K a year to own a Viper.
Lease payments on new ones can be had for as low as $800 a month ($9600 a year). Leasing now allows you to take your 80K that you would have spent on buying and invest it at 12%. A 12% return on 80K will get you $9600 annually. This basically lets you recover the entire amount you spent on your least payments.
Bottom line…
Annual cost of owning = $6,000
Annual cost of leasing = $0.00
Lets say you decide to plop down 80K on a new Viper. At the end of the first year, your Viper will be worth at most no more than 74K. At the end of the second year, your Viper will be worth no more than 68K. At the end of the third year…well, you get the idea. Basically, it’s costing you about 6K a year to own a Viper.
Lease payments on new ones can be had for as low as $800 a month ($9600 a year). Leasing now allows you to take your 80K that you would have spent on buying and invest it at 12%. A 12% return on 80K will get you $9600 annually. This basically lets you recover the entire amount you spent on your least payments.
Bottom line…
Annual cost of owning = $6,000
Annual cost of leasing = $0.00
Sellshomesdrivesviper
Enthusiast
...........invest it at a 12% return, where?
Casey
Enthusiast
No kidding! Where's it guaranteed 12%.
There's another side to that story.
-You lease $9600 a year.
--YOu invest the 80k and loose 25%= $20k the first year.
Total cost $30k for a years fun!
29OUTLAW
Viper Owner
[/QUOTE]
...........invest it at a 12% return, where?
[/QUOTE]
I used 12% simply because my T. Rowe Price MID-CAP GROWTH fund has earned 11.87% over the past 12 months despite the fact that I know nothing about investing.
...........invest it at a 12% return, where?
[/QUOTE]
I used 12% simply because my T. Rowe Price MID-CAP GROWTH fund has earned 11.87% over the past 12 months despite the fact that I know nothing about investing.
Need1
Enthusiast
Or if i'm 1099 I write the lease payments off, and i'm basicly getting the Viper for free? Does that sound right?
05RedSRT
Enthusiast
Writing things off doesnt make them free, just means it costs you less. For example, if you are in the 35% tax bracket and your lease payment that you are able to write off is $1000 a month, it's really only costing your like $650 because you would have to gross $1000 to net $650. Now if it puts you in a lower tax bracket because of the write-off, that is even more favorable. It's not going to be free though.
Casey
Enthusiast
And how did the Fund Return over the past 5 years?
I bet it didn't have a positive return!
...........invest it at a 12% return, where?
[/QUOTE]
I used 12% simply because my T. Rowe Price MID-CAP GROWTH fund has earned 11.87% over the past 12 months despite the fact that I know nothing about investing.
[/QUOTE]
I bet it didn't have a positive return!
...........invest it at a 12% return, where?
[/QUOTE]
I used 12% simply because my T. Rowe Price MID-CAP GROWTH fund has earned 11.87% over the past 12 months despite the fact that I know nothing about investing.
[/QUOTE]
SnakeEye
Viper Owner
And how did the Fund Return over the past 5 years?
I bet it didn't have a positive return!
...........invest it at a 12% return, where?
I used 12% simply because my T. Rowe Price MID-CAP GROWTH fund has earned 11.87% over the past 12 months despite the fact that I know nothing about investing.
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
T. Rowe Price Mid-Cap Growth
Fund Family Return
5 year - 3.84%
29OUTLAW
Viper Owner
And how did the Fund Return over the past 5 years?
I bet it didn't have a positive return!
On the fund I sited above, 5 year is not that great because it includes the “crash” of Q4 2000 but it still comes in at a respectable 5.71% for 5 years.
That fund’s 3 year is pretty decent at 13.59% and 10 year is 13.98%.
The downside on funds is always going to be limited because the funds are not only diversified across companies but also across business sectors – plus they’re fluid and can adapt. The particular fund sited above is actually rated as “medium” risk and makes a return of 10%+ look like a total no-brainer.
Anyway – even if your 80K investment made only a measly 5.71% annually, your leased Viper would still only cost $5032 a year to own versus $6000+ a year to own when dealing with annual depreciation of the “owned” Viper.
Casey
Enthusiast
And how did the Fund Return over the past 5 years?
I bet it didn't have a positive return!
On the fund I sited above, 5 year is not that great because it includes the “crash” of Q4 2000 but it still comes in at a respectable 5.71% for 5 years.
That fund’s 3 year is pretty decent at 13.59% and 10 year is 13.98%.
The downside on funds is always going to be limited because the funds are not only diversified across companies but also across business sectors – plus they’re fluid and can adapt. The particular fund sited above is actually rated as “medium” risk and makes a return of 10%+ look like a total no-brainer.
Anyway – even if your 80K investment made only a measly 5.71% annually, your leased Viper would still only cost $5032 a year to own versus $6000+ a year to own when dealing with annual depreciation of the “owned” Viper.
Well, hey at least you're on the positive side!
I am still digging out of the grave that was dug for me from that crash!
If I ever run into the fund managers of Janus, you will see it on the NEWS!
[/QUOTE]
Well, hey at least you're on the positive side!
I am still digging out of the grave that was dug for me from that crash!
If I ever run into the fund managers of Janus, you will see it on the NEWS!
[/QUOTE]
Do you remember that scene from the movie Casino when they beat Joe Pesci and his brother with baseball bats and throw them in a hole still breathing!
Well, hey at least you're on the positive side!
I am still digging out of the grave that was dug for me from that crash!
If I ever run into the fund managers of Janus, you will see it on the NEWS!
[/QUOTE]
Do you remember that scene from the movie Casino when they beat Joe Pesci and his brother with baseball bats and throw them in a hole still breathing!
And how did the Fund Return over the past 5 years?
I bet it didn't have a positive return!
On the fund I sited above, 5 year is not that great because it includes the “crash” of Q4 2000 but it still comes in at a respectable 5.71% for 5 years.
That fund’s 3 year is pretty decent at 13.59% and 10 year is 13.98%.
The downside on funds is always going to be limited because the funds are not only diversified across companies but also across business sectors – plus they’re fluid and can adapt. The particular fund sited above is actually rated as “medium” risk and makes a return of 10%+ look like a total no-brainer.
Anyway – even if your 80K investment made only a measly 5.71% annually, your leased Viper would still only cost $5032 a year to own versus $6000+ a year to own when dealing with annual depreciation of the “owned” Viper.
Let's keep in mind that you can also buy the car by making monthly payments....you don't have to drop the $80k price of the car right off the bat. Say you're paying the aforementioned payment on a lease and unless it's written off for business purposes(which would be a stretch since it has little business use) you're out the payments unless you opt to buy at then end of the lease for the residual that was agreed upon.
So if you were paying the $800 a month (which I think is very low) on the lease and you can buy(aformentioned 75k price tag w/5k down and a final price of 75k after tt&l interest rate of 5.5% for 72 months) and your payments are $1066.26 a month. After the 3-4 year lease you have no equity in the car, but you can purchase for the residual which would likely be a new loan and you start paying the front loaded interest again. With the purchase you are still making the higher payments for 2-3 more years but you at least will own the car afterward.
--wes
ledfoot
Viper Owner
If you want the car for 2 years, lease it.If you want it for 5 years , buy it...In between it's a tougher call.........
luc
Enthusiast
If you really want to save money and can lease as a business expense, you want to have the highest possible monthly lease fee ( done by claiming that your annual mileage is 30K or wathever # work) in order to lower the residual/value of the car at lease end and buy it at it's much reduced value.
Luc.00GTS
Luc.00GTS
Honestly, there are only two good responses so far, and those are the post from 29OUTLAW and ledfoot. 29 got most of the pros, but left out one big con of leasing - you can do very limited mods to the car.
So here is my quick leasing "advice" for yoy. Let's start by addressing the common misconception about tax write offs on leases versus purchases. You can deduct a car for business 'expenses' regardless of wether you buy it or lease it. And even if you lease a car, you can only deduct the applicable business use of the car. You can't just slap a sticker with your company name on it and deduct the whole lease. Or you can't drive it mostly for fun and make a few business trips in it, and deduct the whole lease. As a matter of fact, if you drive it 95% of the time for work and 5% for pleasure, you can only deduct 95% of the monthly cost (regardless of lease or loan payment), and you better have documentation to prove the deducted part.
The best two reasons that people often lease are:
-if you turn over cars quickly and aren't concerned about making major mods to the car.
-you want to drive more car than you can afford to purchase.
I have owned many cars and leased a few. As long as I don't plan to make any major mods to my cars, I think I am going to stick with leasing. For me, it is mainly because I have never kept a car more than 2 years. For you, though, you need to make an educated decision about what's right for you. Here is an informative articles that may help you make the decision that is right for YOU:
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/leasing/articles/47079/article.html
My rule of thumb has been: two years - lease it. Three years - you are on the edge, but lean towards a lease on a car that has high depreciation potential. Four or more years - buy it.
I lease my car, and I am soooo glad that I do. I drive the heck out of it (over 6k miles in 6 months of ownership), and I don't have to sweat it. Works out great for me since it seems that so many Viper owners end up just saving their cars for the next owners (lest they face major loss of value for having more than 100 miles a year on their cars!!).
So here is my quick leasing "advice" for yoy. Let's start by addressing the common misconception about tax write offs on leases versus purchases. You can deduct a car for business 'expenses' regardless of wether you buy it or lease it. And even if you lease a car, you can only deduct the applicable business use of the car. You can't just slap a sticker with your company name on it and deduct the whole lease. Or you can't drive it mostly for fun and make a few business trips in it, and deduct the whole lease. As a matter of fact, if you drive it 95% of the time for work and 5% for pleasure, you can only deduct 95% of the monthly cost (regardless of lease or loan payment), and you better have documentation to prove the deducted part.
The best two reasons that people often lease are:
-if you turn over cars quickly and aren't concerned about making major mods to the car.
-you want to drive more car than you can afford to purchase.
I have owned many cars and leased a few. As long as I don't plan to make any major mods to my cars, I think I am going to stick with leasing. For me, it is mainly because I have never kept a car more than 2 years. For you, though, you need to make an educated decision about what's right for you. Here is an informative articles that may help you make the decision that is right for YOU:
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/leasing/articles/47079/article.html
My rule of thumb has been: two years - lease it. Three years - you are on the edge, but lean towards a lease on a car that has high depreciation potential. Four or more years - buy it.
I lease my car, and I am soooo glad that I do. I drive the heck out of it (over 6k miles in 6 months of ownership), and I don't have to sweat it. Works out great for me since it seems that so many Viper owners end up just saving their cars for the next owners (lest they face major loss of value for having more than 100 miles a year on their cars!!).
luc
Enthusiast
"misconception about tax write offs on leases versus purchases. You can deduct a car for business 'expenses' regardless of wether you buy it or lease it."
There is a big difference, leasing is a straight expense meaning 100% of the lease cost per year is considered an expense in the same tax year but on a "buy" you have to depreciate the vehicle, meaning, and that is especially important on an expensive car, only a small %, and decreasing every year, is an expense.
If for example depreciation is $4k the 1st year,3K the 2nd,2K the 3rd and 1K for the folowing years,it can take forever to "expense" the full value of the vehicle.
Also, if you can show that you have a vehicle for private usage,it's pretty easy to "business expense" another one.
Luc.00GTS
There is a big difference, leasing is a straight expense meaning 100% of the lease cost per year is considered an expense in the same tax year but on a "buy" you have to depreciate the vehicle, meaning, and that is especially important on an expensive car, only a small %, and decreasing every year, is an expense.
If for example depreciation is $4k the 1st year,3K the 2nd,2K the 3rd and 1K for the folowing years,it can take forever to "expense" the full value of the vehicle.
Also, if you can show that you have a vehicle for private usage,it's pretty easy to "business expense" another one.
Luc.00GTS
Kind of, but it is even more complex than that. Not worth getting into the details for the whole forum, and I am too lazy to type it all out. I am sure you know too, but didn't feel like putting the whole thing down either . . . However, there is an option that is a straight 100% deduction (no depr) on a purchase or a lease. You can deduct $.405 cents per mile of use, regardless. This is actually way better than going for the percentage deduction from the "ease of proving" it standpoint if you ever get audited.
Lee00blacksilverGTS
Enthusiast
Why not call Bill Pemberton at Woodhouse. He gave the greatest summation of the two choices I ever heard as it relates to Vipers a few years back. Link is at the top of the page.
mit
Enthusiast
One other pro of leasing is that should god forbid your car get into an accident, you can fix it and walk at the end of the lease without worrying about the depreciation. If you buy it and wreck it, the car fax is going to make it very tough to sell the car.
29OUTLAW
Viper Owner
There are few cons to leasing a Viper as I see it. I’m just kicking myself and wishing I could do it over.
Some owners would say that folks who lease Vipers are not true enthusiasts. They would say leasers are just posers and wanna-bees. I think it’s the other way around. I think the posers are the garage-queens who drive their Vipers 2000 – 3000K a year because they’re worried about mileage and wear and tear. A true enthusiast would be someone out there driving it every day and having fun. The 12,000 mile annual allotment with leases allows that.
I’m an owner yet I’ve never been to any VCA event, car show, etc. The only reason I’m a non-participant in those events is because of the mileage involved in getting there. I guess it’s kind of ironic that if my Viper was leased, I would be active in VCA events, car shows, etc but as an owner, I can’t be.
Driving a Viper rules but “owning” a Viper ***** because of the ball and chain called “resale”
Some owners would say that folks who lease Vipers are not true enthusiasts. They would say leasers are just posers and wanna-bees. I think it’s the other way around. I think the posers are the garage-queens who drive their Vipers 2000 – 3000K a year because they’re worried about mileage and wear and tear. A true enthusiast would be someone out there driving it every day and having fun. The 12,000 mile annual allotment with leases allows that.
I’m an owner yet I’ve never been to any VCA event, car show, etc. The only reason I’m a non-participant in those events is because of the mileage involved in getting there. I guess it’s kind of ironic that if my Viper was leased, I would be active in VCA events, car shows, etc but as an owner, I can’t be.
Driving a Viper rules but “owning” a Viper ***** because of the ball and chain called “resale”
VENOMAHOLIC
Enthusiast
IMO it primarily depends on how long you want to keep your Viper. I have a preference for GEN II Vipers and do not plan to ever sell my 2000 RT/10. I bought it using a home equity line of credit which is tax deductible. I hope within a couple years to buy a second used GTS to mod it and for track use. After reading the posts I may consider leasing a new SRT10 for 1 year every now and then over time just to try a new one.
