Roe S/C vs 200 hp Nitrous

[Diablo Joe]

Im reposting this here so I can see more discussion and gather information on this subject. Is it possible (and safe) to run Nitrous and a Supercharger.Im torn right now between the Roe charger(550 rwhp) and 200 shot(630 rwhp) I like the idea of more power but I also think a S/C Viper looks more menacing.How about a S/C and a 100 shot(or 50 shot)?Anyone have experience with this and would this require a new fuel pump?I do not want to open the motor(ie reinforce bottom end) if I can help it.

Joe

 

[Sean Roe]

Joe,

I'd suggest contacting a manufacturer, such as Nitrous Express, directly. Tell them you're running a supercharger on your Viper and that the only supplemental fuel will come from turning up the injectors (done with your VEC1). See what they recommend for jet size. Nitrous Express (and others) has a Viper kit already. Basically, it would be putting that kit on, without the "wet" line, strapping the car on a dyno with wideband O2 and starting with the smallest jet size. Monitor the a/f ratio, adjust the VEC1 as needed and don't go too far. Should make a ton of torque.

Sean

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Sean Roe on 07-22-2002 at 06:17 AM</font>

 

[SneakyPete]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TTBADBOY:
Im reposting this here so I can see more discussion and gather information on this subject. Is it possible (and safe) to run Nitrous and a Supercharger.Im torn right now between the Roe charger(550 rwhp) and 200 shot(630 rwhp) I like the idea of more power but I also think a S/C Viper looks more menacing.How about a S/C and a 100 shot(or 50 shot)?Anyone have experience with this and would this require a new fuel pump?I do not want to open the motor(ie reinforce bottom end) if I can help it.

Joe
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am doing exactly that. I have had this same exact indepth conversation with Sean Roe and Tom Welch(MR. Nitrous)from BTR VIPER.

The real question is, do you want to keep refilling the nitrous bottle everytime you want the extra HP. You can easily blow through a bottle in one night of fun, where SC power is all the time.

I have paid for SC from Roe Racing and the 225 RWHP Nitrous/Propane/Gas cell kit from BTRViper.(kit comes with 4 jets from 50 to 225 rwhp). The separate gas fuel cell only injects when the Nitrous/Propone is on and prevents motor from running lean, so you dont need a different fuel pump, if you do it this way. With out it I would not do it.

It depends on the year car. The newer motors-not a chance, older GEN2 cars with forged pistons, yes. The real question is can you run a 200 shot of nitrous and propane with the supercharger. The problem is the more laughing gas you give the car, your start seeing dimining hp returns without upgrading heads and cam to get better air flow.

I am going to get the SC installed and broke in a little, then I am going to drop the car of at BTR Viper for a week, so they can play around with getting the optimum safe nitrous shot.

 

[TOOOFST]

I have a few customers who want the Sean's SC with the TOOFAST NOS system,that combo's gonna look TOOTOUGH.

 

[Sean Roe]

TOOOFST,
Sorry, didn't mean to leave you out. If your Nitrous system is dry, your kit could probably work also, since it feeds into the smooth tubes.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Refilling nitrous is a drag... and that is if you have a nitrous farm out behind the garage with a transfer pump. (This is the ONLY way to go if you drive nitrous! Not to mention you have to find a source that will sell you the industrial tanks.)

But EVEN if you can fill bottles, after the 1st few shots, the bottle begins to lose pressure and a heater will not solve the problem. (When you use nitrous, it boils and if you remember from chemistry the amount of heat required for a change of state, you will immediately see that a lot of heat is correspondingly removed from the liquid and it gets cold fast and a lot.)

This problem is only solved by another tank of whatever to maintain a constant pressure on the nitrous bottle OR a complex control system that regulates the nitrous as it loses pressure. The problem can be mitigated by running huge amounts of nitrous storage - but only as long as it is relative full. HOWEVER, I have not heard of a fully controlled nitrous system. They may exist but no one is talking. Let's face it nitrous flow should be a function of rpm and independent of bottle temperature. I don't like nitrous mainly because it is so crude. ...and let's not forget as you loose bottle pressure, your fuel enrichment then becomes excessive if open loop (usually the case.)

I guess the reason no one has solved the regulation problem is that nitrous is meant to be a cheap, quick HP solution and what I envision is like putting another fuel injection system on a car which is big bucks.

If the loss of pressure is not a problem, then building a farm is not that big a deal. You might have to form a company so that you can get the paperwork to do it legally. Oh, an alternative to the farm is have at least 6 bottles so you maintain your own inventory and minimize the trips to the refiller.

I'm too lazy for nitrous - hell I'm too lazy for bottled water! There's nothing like forced induction where all you do is.... NOTHING ELSE!

NOTE: When considering high performance, ALWAYS look at what is done with trucks! You will find roller cams, turbos, superchargers, puck clutches, oil spray on the bottom of pistons (!), fuel injection, and so forth. The way I look at it, the first thing you do is employ all of the truck technology (!) before you start adding more. Trucks are Way Cool.

 

[CitySnake]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom and Vipers:
I'm too lazy for nitrous - hell I'm too lazy for bottled water! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tom:
LMAO

I fear I'm also a member of this club!

 

[varanus]

why does it need to be a dry system?

 

[Tom Welch]

Tom,

Ive seen some some odd and ignorant comments on nitrous but the boiling gig, that takes the cake!

As for filling bottles, there is no work involved, pressure differential does the work, and any welding supply shop will be glad to set you up with the appropriate documentation to have bottles delivered to your location(they pick-up and deliver them to me with a phone call).

Not to take anything away from the Roe unit, but if you don't spray it to boot, you will look lazy in the rear view mirror of any nitrous Viper.

Tom

 

[TOOOFST]

Originally posted by Tom Welch:
Tom,

Ive seen some some odd and ignorant comments on nitrous but the boiling gig, that takes the cake!

Tom

Beat me to the punch again,Tommy Gun
Driving the car with the stock power is fun, safe and easy going.
Its also a great feeling knowing she'll run 10's anytime.
Best of both worlds.

 

[Diablo Joe]

Getting the Nitrous isnt a problem as I own a salvage yard and have Oxygen/Acetyline already delivered.Im just concerned with longevity of the motor.Ive searched these archives for a while and havent found one instance of anyone blowing up their Viper on spray.At least one thats been installed by a reputable tuner.I just want to make sure that if I go S/C and Nitrous I can have the best of both worlds and still have the reliability to boot.

Joe

 

[CoryMac]

There was a guy in Tampa who supposedly blew his motor up with the s/c and nitrous combo. Maybe Gerald or Chuck knows who I am talking about. I think his name was Joe and he has a white w/ blue stripes GTS that has GTS/R badging. He drives around with a parachute

. I'm pretty sure it's the same guy...he's been around racing on Gandy...or was until he blew his motor up.