Skip shift issue on 2009 and 2010 Viper possible solution!!

CaptainDavid

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As some of you know, eliminating the skip shift feature on a 09 and 2010 is more difficultthan prior models, in fact until now, the only know solution (to me) has beento install the Mopar race controller, which eliminates the skip shift as wellas many other features/improvements to the Viper.

This is why!

This from Viper Parts of America.

Okay, hereis what we learned: Starting in 2009, CARB/EPA required that the Viper skip shift diagnostic notonly performed a simple circuit check (as it had in previous years), but alsoinclude a rationality check to determine if the skipshift actually took place. This means that youcould no longer install a simple load device that looks like the solenoidelectrically such as used in previous generations. Simply said, the rationalitycheck looks for the correct rpm drop when the skipshift is enabled and the vehicle shift occurs in that window and if, after sixconsecutive samples the rpm drop is not correct, it will throw a CEL as itinterprets it as a malfunctioning system. The Mopar controller eliminates thatof course.


Thanks to Ringgold off Road, Ringgold Ga. 706 935 9341, we may have a solution. Mike Robbins came up with the idea. Jeremy Moorhead did the install.
You must be registered for see images attach

1. Obtain a skip shift solenoid Mopar 68029166AA (check VPA)

2. Car on lift

3. Remove the belly pan.
You must be registered for see images attach

4. Install a stop onto the solenoid to allow theplunger to travel appx 1 ½ inches. We used a plastic bottle cap.
5 Mount the new solenoid , onto the frame, or wire tie to harness, within reach of the harness wire going to the installed solenoid.

You must be registered for see images attach

click to enlarge

6 Simply unplug harness from installed solenoid and plug into new solenoid.
7. Reinstall belly pan.
So far I have driven about 200 miles in Atlanta traffic, well over 40 failed skip shifts have occurred and so far no codes have appeared. The skip shift light still comes on. The install took place about a week ago.
I will advise if this changes.

 

ACRucrazy

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Makes total sense on why it would continue to work. I would do something similar deleting EGR and EVAP on one my other cars, remove the EGR and EVAP while leaving the solenoids plugged in. Seems simple enough! :drive:
 

gb66gth

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I have an '08 Gen IV.
I bought a skip shift eliminator from SnakeOyl products about a week after I got the car. I installed it in about 20min. and haven't thought about it since then, works like a charm.
 

chorps

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I have an '08 Gen IV.
I bought a skip shift eliminator from SnakeOyl products about a week after I got the car. I installed it in about 20min. and haven't thought about it since then, works like a charm.

From what I understand the 2009-2010 skip shift function is different from the 2008.
 

ACRucrazy

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It is, its explained in the first post. Its looking for the solenoid to move to lock out a gear (RPM) and they are simulating that by allowing the extra, 2nd solenoid to function, yet stop at 1.5" like mentioned. However this solenoid is just a dummy, its not doing anything else other than sitting in the open doing what it's told.
 
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SSGNRDZ_28

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I don't understand how this gets past the RPM check logic. This seems like the same thing as adding the simple load device (instead of a skip shift eliminator you are adding a second solenoid), but maybe I am missing something.
 
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CaptainDavid

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I don't understand how this gets past the RPM check logic. This seems like the same thing as adding the simple load device (instead of a skip shift eliminator you are adding a second solenoid), but maybe I am missing something.
I don't know the answer here, I thought it would fail for this reason, and it may yet fail. But not so far...
 

ringram

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I don't understand how this gets past the RPM check logic. This seems like the same thing as adding the simple load device (instead of a skip shift eliminator you are adding a second solenoid), but maybe I am missing something.

+1

Doesnt make sense here should be the same effect as the sim. Unless the sim isnt doing its job right.
 

ACRucrazy

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I don't understand how this gets past the RPM check logic. This seems like the same thing as adding the simple load device (instead of a skip shift eliminator you are adding a second solenoid), but maybe I am missing something.

Yea I don't see how it does the RPM, reason I put it in parentheses. I would have to guess it sees the load change (resistance) of the solenoid. The functionality of it.

A simple load device (such as a skip shift eliminator) probably isn't working as the PCM is not simply checking for it being there on start up, but also checking for its functionality. The resistor (skip shift eliminator can't do that would be my guess)

Allowing the solenoid to function as designed, while not installed in the transmission will do 2 things.

-Allow the transmission to shift how you want it without locking out the gear (since the solenoid that is installed is unplugged and not functional)
-Allow the PCM to "think" the SSS is functioning properly, because the 2nd solenoid, the dummy, is plugged in and functional. It just happens to be ******* outside of the transmission not doing much of anything.

Makes sense to me :dunno:
 

Viper007Bond

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I have an '08 Gen IV.
I bought a skip shift eliminator from SnakeOyl products about a week after I got the car. I installed it in about 20min. and haven't thought about it since then, works like a charm.

Oh! I was under the impression it would throw error codes but I guess that's only the 2009 and 2010 models that do that? Off to buy one!
 

Paul Hawker

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Another way to defeat the skip shift is to double clutch (2nd stab at the clutch) when you feel the lock out engaged. More than 1/2 the time it will open the gate and allow you into 2nd.

Still another is to just slow your shift, and hang in neutral, and it also sometimes lets you get into 2nd.

Final technique is to stop Granny Shifting! : >)

Think the phantom shift solenoid is the most effective solution of all...
 
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CaptainDavid

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can you post an image of the" Bottle cap" trick.. Im not getting how it stays there
I don't have a photo. We simply looked for something with an inside diameter that matched the outside diameter of the solenoid, slipped it over the plunger end and zip tied it in place. If you could find some sort of cap that is threaded that matches the thread on the solenoid, that would be a better solution. Another possible solution is if you could remove the solenoid( replace with plug temporarily ) maybe engage the plunger and cut it off leaving appx 3/4 inch. Not sure what would happen if you removed the plunger, or if you could without destroying the solenoid. BTW none of these suggestions have been tested.
 

viperprowler1

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Does any one else have similar experience as gb66gth? That is with a skip shift eliminator from Snakeoyl products that will work with the 2008 Gen IV? Apparently, the '08 is different from the '09 and '10. I don't want to purchase one of these and not have it work. It would be nice to eliminate that one annoying situation of the skip shift once and for all. Let us hear of your experience in this area...thanks, Mike
 
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CaptainDavid

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The difficulty seems to be specificto the 2009 and 2010 Viper. the other solutions seem to work well on Vipers prior to 2009, seems in order to satisfy regulations the pcm checks for failed skip shifts only on those models. The load devices seem to work fine on prior years.
Paul, I normally drive as you describe except when I get caught in Atlanta bumper to bumper normal traffic jams. The rush hour last 7 hours.
BTW drove around in the Vipe today still no code. I hope I don't have to start a thread titled " from the word eating department"


 

viperprowler1

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I rec'd an email from SnakeOyl products indicating that they believe that the skip shift eliminator they make available will work on the 2008 Gen IV without setting codes. And if by chance it does eventually set a code, it can be reset at your dealer with the DRB3 (I apologize if that is not the right terminogy now). It seems to be the most cost effective answer to this vexing problem. I hope I have framed this answer correctly.
 

PeterMJ

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If all it takes is a dummy solenoid to make this work, then the value of the resistor is incorrect and should be determined. Maybe these two years use a speicific value? I just cannot see how the dummy solenoid can deal with the functionality testing based on RPMs. Seems like there is no functionality test involved at all.
 
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CaptainDavid

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I rec'd an email from SnakeOyl products indicating that they believe that the skip shift eliminator they make available will work on the 2008 Gen IV without setting codes. And if by chance it does eventually set a code, it can be reset at your dealer with the DRB3 (I apologize if that is not the right terminogy now). It seems to be the most cost effective answer to this vexing problem. I hope I have framed this answer correctly.
I believe that the SnakeOyl eliminator will work with your 2008 Viper. Again the issue is with 2009-2010. so far no codes , all is well with the solenoid mentioned above. Approximately 300 miles and 100's of failed skip shifts.. If this changes I will advise.
 

PeterMJ

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All is good so far. no codes, no prob. 350m since the install, mostly in traffic lots of failed skip shifts its still holding. fingers crossed.
so when do you think it will be safe to conclude this solution works permanently? Waiting anxiously to solve this pretty annoying issue once and for all.:2tu:
 

SSGNRDZ_28

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It seems to me the only real way to conclude this is a fix is to actively test it. Driving styles dictate if skip shift is common or never activated, so repetitive testing under the following conditions would prove / disprove this as a solution.


The skip shift solenoid (1) prevents the operator from shifting into second or third gear during part throttle operation. The solenoid is threaded into the left side of the transmission case.
OPERATION

The PCM controls the skip shift solenoid, locking out second and third gear when all of the following conditions are met:
• Engine coolant exceeds 41°C (106°F)
• Vehicle speed is between 12 and 20 MPH
• Engine operating above 1322 RPM
• The PCM verified first gear speed/RPM
• Throttle position sensor (TPS) signal is less than 0.68 volt above closed throttle (23 percent throttle opening)

The solenoid resets when vehicle speed drops below 3 MPH.
 

PeterMJ

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It seems to me the only real way to conclude this is a fix is to actively test it. Driving styles dictate if skip shift is common or never activated, so repetitive testing under the following conditions would prove / disprove this as a solution.


The skip shift solenoid (1) prevents the operator from shifting into second or third gear during part throttle operation. The solenoid is threaded into the left side of the transmission case.
OPERATION

The PCM controls the skip shift solenoid, locking out second and third gear when all of the following conditions are met:
• Engine coolant exceeds 41°C (106°F)
• Vehicle speed is between 12 and 20 MPH
• Engine operating above 1322 RPM
• The PCM verified first gear speed/RPM
• Throttle position sensor (TPS) signal is less than 0.68 volt above closed throttle (23 percent throttle opening)

The solenoid resets when vehicle speed drops below 3 MPH.
And how do you explain the dummy solenoid supplying the verification for speed and RPM? I hold this part a suspect if the dummy solenoid solution works. I am so sick and tired of this feature that will gladly drive around with the dummy unloading in a bottle if this is what it takes. BTW, the traffic conditions force certain driving styles that make this feature unavoidable.
 

SSGNRDZ_28

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And how do you explain the dummy solenoid supplying the verification for speed and RPM? I hold this part a suspect if the dummy solenoid solution works. I am so sick and tired of this feature that will gladly drive around with the dummy unloading in a bottle if this is what it takes. BTW, the traffic conditions force certain driving styles that make this feature unavoidable.

I am also suspect of the Speed / RPM qualifier. Either I have overestimated the intelligence of the system or this solution won't work. IMO the ECU needs to see speed/rpm drop to the proper value confirm the skip happened? I was going to look into an intelligent/active solution but there is no need if this passive solution works.
 

PeterMJ

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I am also suspect of the Speed / RPM qualifier. Either I have overestimated the intelligence of the system or this solution won't work. IMO the ECU needs to see speed/rpm drop to the proper value confirm the skip happened? I was going to look into an intelligent/active solution but there is no need if this passive solution works.
Well, there is no other explanation, is there? Not like Skynet is running our Vipers, using artificial intelligence, LOL. My guess is actually that this has something to do with the way the solenoid is wired up. Is there a way to see the wiring diagram for the solenoid anywhere?
 

Steve M

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Why would the solenoid have to know the speed and RPM, or be able to measure it itself? I would assume like any solenoid, the plunger is either extended or it is not...the other sensors feed the pertinent info to the PCM (in this case engine RPM and vehicle speed), and the PCM tells the solenoid to either do something or not. It doesn't need to know or even care that it is installed in an actual transmission...it either did what it was told or it didn't.
 

ACRucrazy

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Why would the solenoid have to know the speed and RPM, or be able to measure it itself? I would assume like any solenoid, the plunger is either extended or it is not...the other sensors feed the pertinent info to the PCM (in this case engine RPM and vehicle speed), and the PCM tells the solenoid to either do something or not. It doesn't need to know or even care that it is installed in an actual transmission...it either did what it was told or it didn't.

This is exactly it.
 

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