Storing Viper - Mobil 1 10-30w Bottle Changed? - Am I buying the right one?

Kmrumedy

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I'm storing my car this weekend and doing an oil change with Mobil 1 10-30 Synthetic.

The bottle looks different than I remember.......under that 10-30 it says in GREEN letters: "For higher mileage cars".

I've gone to all the big chains and it is the same.

Is this the regular 10-30 we've always put in and now they are marketing it differently or is this the wrong/different oil?
 

Boxer12

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The 'regular ' a/k/a popular Mobil 1 is now 0-40, so the 10-30 is sold as the high mileage fare. It won't hurt a thing unless you plan to start your car at subfreezing temps, then I would go with the 0-40.
 

Fatboy 18

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Can you mix the two types? Reason I ask is that allough 10-30 is recomended, over here in the uk it is very hard to get hold of!

So if i do an oil change and put in 7qts of 10-30 (which i have), could I top it up with 0-40? without dammaging anything?

2000 GTS, 47k
 

Steve-Indy

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Actually, the oil you picked would not be my choice...noting that you may want to visit the Mobil 1 web site.

Here is a description for the oil that you purchased from the Mobil 1 home page:

"Keep your engine running like the day it drove off the lot. Mobil 1 High Mileage is specifically designed to protect engines with over 75,000 miles. It's engineered to help keep vital components clean while moving heat away from critical engine parts." See this at:
Mobil - The Oil That's Changing Oil

Read more about the High Mileage formulation at:
Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30

Here is the link to the "regular" Mobil 1 10W-30 that has been generally used in the Gen II and early Gen III (2003-4) Vipers:
Mobil 1 10W-30

And, while you are at it, read about the Extended Performance version:
Mobil 1 Extended Performance

PERSONALLY, I service our Vipers with the "regular" Mobil 1 10W-30 that WAS THEIR FACTORY FILL and am quite happy, noting that they see street usage only. I keep track of the results in a large notebook (3inches thick) of used oil analyses...and, am quite happy with this oil.It is quite available at a great price at Wal-Mart in 5 quart jugs.

There are certainly many other opinions and choices out there...especially if you are tracking your Viper.
 

TAXIMAN1

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you have the semi-syn. stuff.. "For higher mileage" is not fully syn. I wouldnt use it, but that's me..
 

Tom F&L GoR

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1) You can top off with "any other" oil, but it is not a great idea to mix different oils (even different Mobil oils) at close to equal ratios. The additives in lubricants work well when at or near 100% of the dosage, but work at less than 50% effectiveness when there is 50% of the additive. So two additives at 50% each does not make for 100% effectiveness.

2) Steve is always on top of oil topics, so I am commenting to add information. Typically the "regular" oil is the formulation that meets the target performance requirements. The "high mileage" oil has additional seal swell additives and detergents. The seal swell additives are intended to soften elastomers and gaskets and help stop leaks found in older engines. The detergents are boosted to help clean up previously dirty engine parts. (Although in my experience, it is near impossible to remove hard deposits, only to prevent them.) The "extended drain" oils have more of everything and are more like a diesel oil or Euro oil. These engine oils have always been formulated for longer drains and the oil companies are now bottling those formulations as US passenger car oils.

Each oil will be fine up to a certain drain interval. Additives get used up and at some point you run out of one or another type of protection (anti-wear, dispersant, detergent, friction reduction, etc.) Obviously the high mileage and extended drain oils will last relatively longer. No offense to anyone, but it seems Viper owners change their oil like underwear, so it won't make much difference which you choose.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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you have the semi-syn. stuff.. "For higher mileage" is not fully syn. I wouldnt use it, but that's me..

Actually, mineral oils for higher mileage engines is a benefit. In chemistry "like dissolves like" and the mineral oil itself (ignoring additives) is much more like the deposits than the synthetic base oil is. So the mineral base oil will clean the engine better than a synthetic. If you put equal amounts of additives in each base oil, the mineral oil would have a slight advantage in cleaning power.

What we don't know exactly is if a synthetic oil has more detergents and dispersants than the mineral oil, so it's hard to predict the actual performance.
 

All Blue ACR

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The bottle looks different than I remember.......under that 10-30 it says in GREEN letters: "For higher mileage cars".

That's what is in mine John:dunno:
It is a different container than the one linked by Steve. It is the international 5 litre jug you bought right? Wally world, Napa and Canadian Tire sell it. I bought 6 jugs ( was on sale) last fall; 4 had the green writing "higher mileage formula" on the bottom front of the jug, 2 didn't.It was all I could find too. I took one jug to the dealer to confirm. It is a full synthetic SuperSyn(says so on the back) and even states OEM usage for Dodge Viper in the description on the back. I chalked it up to stupid Canadian packaging.
 

TAXIMAN1

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Good read Tom.... I used to have a very high mileage v8 jeep grand cherokee, that would not quit with 284k on it....

When I asked the dealer if I should start running fully synthetic. They said no, it will cause leaks to surface that otherwise would not. Make any sense?

So I guess I thought the opposite was true. That you should not use semi-synthetic on the cars that, call for fully synthetic

Good info. Though...
 

Steve-Indy

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As always, Tom...THANKS for your full and detailed explanation!! You are an informative and rational advisor in what I consider a somewhat confusing area...at least for many of us.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Good read Tom.... I used to have a very high mileage v8 jeep grand cherokee, that would not quit with 284k on it....

When I asked the dealer if I should start running fully synthetic. They said no, it will cause leaks to surface that otherwise would not. Make any sense?

So I guess I thought the opposite was true. That you should not use semi-synthetic on the cars that, call for fully synthetic

Good info. Though...

The myth of causing leaks ended in the 80's with the last OEM (Mazda, I think) switching to better quality rubbers. Starting in Europe (where long drain passenger car oils are common) the OEMs have included seal compatibility tests in lubricant requirements. It is a complicated, tedious task to meet all the various requirements and has taken on an importance that technically approaches that of passing the engine tests.

Also, the original synthetics were essentially polyalphaolefins only; current formulations contain a some esters (and additives) that provide their own friction reduction and high temp benefits, but also balance the seal swell issue. It should really be said that there is no issue and if the engine is starting to leak that you simply have an old, dried out, overheated seal or gasket.

Similarly, as far as the seals, gaskets, elastomers, etc in engines newer than 1980, there is no reason not to use synthetics, mineral oils, or semi-synthetics. In addition, let's not forget the Group III base oils, which are very highly refined mineral oils, but have 99.99% of the performance of synthetic base oils. (Castrol and Shell synthetics are Group III, and I think Mobil might the be last PAO oil.) The situation has blurred the lines between the base oil types and goes to my mantra: it's the additives that make the difference anyway.
 

xlrashn

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Hey Tom.... I have a somewhat on topic question. I was recently told that ALL 5W20 oil (the current recommended weight for most new Fords) is semi-synthetic. Is this accurate, and could you please explain to me the reason for this recommendation? Some of the engines are the same ones produced when 5W30 and 10W30 were recommended (i.e. the Triton V8 series). Just want to know the "why" in all of this.... Thanks in advance.
 

Frankster

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FWIW
In dealing with general aviation aircraft, Mobil 1 is not recommended. The reason being that the oil tends to sludge in an aircooled engine (it's not an ashless dispersant oil).

But that's not the worst part..... Synthetics in general (not just Mobil 1) do not have the "rust protection qualities" of the parrafin based or mineral oil lubricants. That is to say that, in aircraft which were infequently flown and that used synthetic oils like Mobil 1, the camshaft lobes would rust up. If the engine is run periodically, then this isn't an issue. If you leave your car sitting in storage for extended periods then rusting becomes more of an issue when using synthetics.

I suppose some anti-rust oil addative might do the trick?
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Hey Tom.... I have a somewhat on topic question. I was recently told that ALL 5W20 oil (the current recommended weight for most new Fords) is semi-synthetic. Is this accurate, and could you please explain to me the reason for this recommendation? Some of the engines are the same ones produced when 5W30 and 10W30 were recommended (i.e. the Triton V8 series). Just want to know the "why" in all of this.... Thanks in advance.

I don't know how anyone, even in the industry, would know that. It would take many chemists many hours and many tests, and then it would still be complicated by the additives in the oil that make the lab tests extremely complicated to interpret when looking for the base oil types.

When formulating an oil, you start with with the base oil needed for the low temperatures (the SAE 5W) and later include additives (viscosity index improvers) make it behave like a thick oil at higher temperatures. To get the precise starting base oil, it is usually a combination of one base oil that is a little higher and another that is a little lower in viscosity. (Refineries only make base oils in certain viscosity grades so they can sell throughout the industry.) The lower one tends to be more volatile (evaporates) and the higher one tends to hurt low temperature performance. The mix is therefore a best combination of a low volatility and low viscosity base oil (probably synthetic or Group III) and one that is simply a "pretty good" base oil (Group III or Group II+). The cost-performance trade off becomes pretty scary when planning on millions of gallons of product. So the comment really extends to any oil, not just the 5W-20.

However, the 5W-20 (it used to be the 5W-30) is right on the edge of dramatically becoming a very expensive product to make depending on the final formulation. Besides the base oil issues, the car companies have thrown extra requirements on the 5W-20 that aren't needed on higher viscosity grades. In the end, I suspect the comment is aimed at the difference between Group III and "true" synthetic, since there is still a division about whether Group III should be called synthetic or not. It's doubtful that a 5W-20 could be formulated with any significant amount of "pretty good, regular" mineral oil. The marketing problem is that some people, both technical and not, consider Group III base oils as "synthetic" (i.e. Castrol, Shell...) and some people do not (Mobil.) Therefore you have to ask the person giving this opinion what they really meant.

The SAE 5W-20 provides cold weather flowability of an SAE 5W; no big surprise there. Ford and the other OEMs have succeeded in making rounds parts more perfectly round and flat parts more perfectly flat, such that a thick oil film is no longer needed to keep moving parts separated by a thin film of oil. Nothing really surprising there, either. The benefit is that the oil pumps like an SAE 20 instead of an SAE 30 or 40, so the work is less, the effect of splashing around in the oil pan is less windage on the crankshaft, etc, etc. It's for fuel economy. There is no other inherent benefit of an SAE 5W-20 over a 5W-30 or 5W-40 or 5W-50 other than fuel economy.
 
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Tom F&L GoR

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FWIW
In dealing with general aviation aircraft, Mobil 1 is not recommended. The reason being that the oil tends to sludge in an aircooled engine (it's not an ashless dispersant oil).

But that's not the worst part..... Synthetics in general (not just Mobil 1) do not have the "rust protection qualities" of the parrafin based or mineral oil lubricants. That is to say that, in aircraft which were infequently flown and that used synthetic oils like Mobil 1, the camshaft lobes would rust up. If the engine is run periodically, then this isn't an issue. If you leave your car sitting in storage for extended periods then rusting becomes more of an issue when using synthetics.

I suppose some anti-rust oil addative might do the trick?

Aviation engines oils are not my expertise and they are vastly different. Due to the hand-controlled fuel mixture richness capability and the inability to hear the engine knocking, the industry is deathly afraid that combustion chamber deposits may form. If they did, and caused pre-ignition, it would obviously cause some serious consequences. Therefore AEOs are ashless and not the same as passenger car oils.

Years ago NASCAR's secret oil was to use AEOs because their engines would also run rich, are very loud, and were extremely high compression. After break-in with a regular oil, racing 500 miles with an AEO would work OK.

Again, I don't know AEO formulations, but would be surprised if Mobil AEO was significantly worse than their competition. And passenger car oils do have anti-rust additives included as there is an important anti-rust bench test that has been included in lubricant requirements for a loooooong time.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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How long can you store "unused" synthetic oil before it loses it's usefulness?

Assuming then you use and change it within the next year.
Unopened: 6 years
Opened: 3 years

My best guess.

However, unless you are saving 8-10 quarts for an oil change, you don't want to mix the old oil with anything else at 50-50 mixes. Top ups are OK, but even Mobil changes the formulation every 2 years or so, meaning new and old Mobil might be completely different.
 

treed

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Assuming then you use and change it within the next year.
Unopened: 6 years
Opened: 3 years

My best guess.

However, unless you are saving 8-10 quarts for an oil change, you don't want to mix the old oil with anything else at 50-50 mixes. Top ups are OK, but even Mobil changes the formulation every 2 years or so, meaning new and old Mobil might be completely different.

Thanks, Tom. I've got a case of unopened oil from maybe 2 years ago that I was going to use for a complete oil change, no mixing or top ups. Sounds like it should still be good to use...
 

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