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Transmission issues - wouldn't go into any gear!

Discussion in 'Generation V Discussions / SRT Coupe, GTS, GTC, AC' started by bigup, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. bigup

    bigup Enthusiast

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    I've had my Viper for a few months now without major incident (smaller issues with windows, electronics etc). Today I was driving along casually, 3rd to 4th, 4th to ... nope, didn't want to go into 5th. So I put it in 6th instead.

    As I was approaching downtown, I went to downshift, and it wouldn't go into any gear, except for back into 6th. Managed to pull over in a somewhat precarious place, but safe enough. With the engine idling, I tried to put it into gear, any gear, but it wouldn't go. Clutch pedal out, in, still wouldn't go into any gear.

    So I shut the engine off and started it back up again. This time the transmission would happily go into 4th, but no other gear.

    This is weird, since I've had standard transmission all my life (20 years driving), and never seen anything like this before.

    I moved the car forward along a bit in forth, and voila, it went back into 1st. I then gingerly continued driving without further incident.

    WTF just happened? I'm going to call the dealership first thing in the morning, and get it checked out. Anybody seen anything like this? MY2014 GTS.
     
  2. Jack B

    Jack B Enthusiast

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    Did it grind or physically locked out
     
  3. bigup

    bigup Enthusiast

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    No grinding, just locked out completely.
     
  4. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    I wonder if it was some sort of bizzare electronic skip shift malfunction. If it is still done by a solenoid, maybe the one in your car needs to be replaced. A similar problem showed up in some Dodge trucks a few years back. At any rate, the cause should show up when the dealer puts a scan tool on it.
     
  5. bigup

    bigup Enthusiast

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    It'll be going into the dealer Thursday for inspection; I won't be driving it until it's looked at since this could be quite dangerous in some circumstances... I'll report back!

    Edit: Speaking of skip shift - is there a good reliable way to disable this? It's thrown me off a few times in slow traffic; seems pointless on a car like this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  6. DMan

    DMan Viper Owner

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    Arrow Race Controller defeats the skip shift, and many more pluses.
     
  7. bigup

    bigup Enthusiast

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    That looks promising, especially if it has throttle response improvements (I find my Viper throttle very 'lazy' compared to my previous M3, which was instantaneous). Now I just have to find somewhere to buy/install it in Canada.
     
  8. bigup

    bigup Enthusiast

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    Just reporting back - dealership looked at it, shop foreman and viper tech, took for a drive and "unable to replicate", as predicted.

    Now driving the car today it locked me out of 5th again...

    I know my transmission has issues, but now I don't know how to proceed since the dealership will likely again say they cannot replicate; since it's such a random intermittent problem and unlikely to appear on a 10 minute drive. I've never seen anything like this with a manual transmission before; yet I'm sure they are putting it down to 'driver error'.

    I was supposed to be tracking the car this weekend, but now I'm having doubts that it's safe to do so.
     
  9. mjorgensen Woodhouse

    mjorgensen Woodhouse VCA Member - West VCA Member

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    Take it back when it is acting up, don't shut it off then take them for a ride and show them yourself when it is happening, sometimes when you leave it and it cools things will not act up.
     
  10. flyboy999

    flyboy999 Enthusiast

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    I have been experiencing a related situation with my 2013 GTS. It just started a few days ago, although, I've only had the car for a month and I may have not noticed it before. When I go to select reverse, I get blocked out occasionally. Not all the time, but about 50% of the time. The reverse camera activates, but I can't get it all the way forward into reverse unless I let up on the clutch pedal a bit to get the input shaft spinning and then it will go into reverse.

    I canvassed this with guys on the VOA forum, and no one had experienced the same problem. I called Tremec and spoke with Dale. He indicated that the gears they use in the TR-6060 are so big that sometimes you will select reverse the teeth will meet up "point to point" so you will get blocked out. That is normal he said, and nothing to worry about. I let that stew for a few days, and finally decided to call a transmission specialist in Calgary this morning to get a "second opinion". He told me the same thing. Essentially, the synchronizer (yes the Tremec TR-6060 has a brass reverse synchro, carbon on forward gears), can't do it's job if the input shaft isn't turning. The blocker ring cannot index, and if the teeth meet point to point then you just have to rotate the input shaft a hair to get the gears to mesh.

    There is an excellent video on YouTube called "Learn about transmission synchro rings". At 4:37 the author goes into detail regarding "indexing" and how a "block out" condition can occur. It can occur if the gear tips have been flattened (i.e. missed shift(s)), or if the blocker ring has been worn and no longer grabs the next gear, etc. etc. I suggest you watch the video just so you are educated on the workings of your transmission, which will in turn provide you with more "credibility" when dealing with your dealer. If you walk in and say, "Listen guys, I'm getting blocked out of gear, and my suspicion is that the blocker rings on my sychros aren't indexing properly. I want this issue addressed." You are far more likely to get their attention.

    One thing you might consider, which is something I am going to do this afternoon, is change your transmission fluid, or at the very least, check to make sure it is at the prescribed level. I am going to be putting in Royal Purple Max ATF and see what happens. I have heard that some people experience better shifting with Royal Purple, so what the heck. I'll give it a try. Just a note, if you do check it out. The bolts on the under tray that needs to be removed are Torx bolts, not allen/hex bolts. I jacked the car up the other day and got stumped because they looked like hex/allen bolts and none of my metric/imperial keys fit. The guys on VOA helped me out so I'm ready to go at it again today.

    Good luck with it.
     
  11. AZTVR

    AZTVR Enthusiast

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    Thanks for the reference !!! I knew the general description of a synchronizer function; but not to that detail ! I started to feel like I was watching a shell game there for a while; but, he does do a good job at explaining it and the several variations.

    I think this is the one you were referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXsRfbOiBhE
     
  12. flyboy999

    flyboy999 Enthusiast

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    Just a follow up on this. I changed my transmission fluid out this afternoon for Royal Purple Max ATF, and when I opened the fill hole I noted that the fluid was not 1/4 inch below but more like 1/2 or 3/4 inch below. I filled the transmission, and also serviced the diff as well. I will report back as to whether or not this improves shifting. One other note, the rear diff fluid looked horrible, and this was only after 2500km. I'm glad I changed it. The transmission fluid looked great, but I think it was a bit low.
     
  13. bigup

    bigup Enthusiast

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    Great thanks for the useful info.

    I took it out on the track for two days (today/yesterday) .. no issues yesterday, but today the transmission was feeling a little awkward - going into third was very difficult at times, had to double clutch on occasion due to lock out.

    I will for sure have have the trans fluid switched out this week to see if there is improvement.

    Other than that ... man a phenomenal car on the track; Viper is amazing in the turns and brutal fast on the straights. First time with this car so big thumbs up to it!
     
  14. flyboy999

    flyboy999 Enthusiast

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    Keep us posted. I'm interested to see if the fluid switch helps. It seems to have improved my ability to get into reverse, but the problem hasn't entirely disappeared. My hope is it will improve over time, as a transmission specialist has suggested.
     
  15. Viper X

    Viper X VCA Member - South VCA Member

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    Never tried Royal Purple in the trans. Hope is works out for you.

    Have had very good resultes with Motul Multi ATF in my 09 ACR at the track on very hot days. No shifting issues. FYI, most of the Viper Cup guys ran Motul during that race series.
     
  16. flyboy999

    flyboy999 Enthusiast

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    Just a follow up here. The RP is working fine in the transmission, and I believe the reverse "lock out" condition has been slightly improved, but it is hard to tell. It still locks me out every now and then, but as soon as I start to let up on the clutch and get the input shaft spinning it drops all the way into reverse. After having spoken with two transmission experts, one at Tremec and the other a reputable mechanic in Calgary who services the transmissions, I am just going to accept it as a normal operation of the transmission. Both of them said it was normal, and they wouldn't dream of letting someone tear down the transmission for that kind of an issue.
     
  17. bigup

    bigup Enthusiast

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    I had the RP put in and have not had any lockout issues since; but then I've not been driving it all that hard either. Track event coming up soon so I guess that will be the true test.
     
  18. flyboy999

    flyboy999 Enthusiast

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    Right on. Hopefully it works for you. I'm still having the same issue with reverse, but the car shifts beautifully other than that, and it hasn't become worse, so I've accepted it as a characteristic of the car. No worries.
     
  19. jjrho

    jjrho Enthusiast

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    Re: Transmission issues - wouldn't go into any gear! rear diff change

    hi, have a '14 TA with 1500 miles…. i had oil changed at 1000 but thinking of changing the rear diff and wondering what fluid and how much i should get ? also, depending on the fluid, i read something about adding a friction modifier or something if it doesn't have it ?? please advise….

    also, was trying to teach my kid how to drive manual and on his attempt to down shift for the first time, he was about 1500 rpm above and on engagement, loud shrieriek for a blip second and a few seconds later, burn smell….. how much damage was that ? oh, 4 to 3rd gear…..

    james R
    '14 ta #66
     

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