wallbanger
Enthusiast
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viper makes another list
- Thread starter wallbanger
- Start date
ViperCrazed
Enthusiast
uh oh, V10 is gonna be pissed when he reads this....
DEVILDOG
VCA Member North TX
They hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. I'm certain many others will agree. 
Others of course will disagree. However, it's interesting to get an OUTSIDE, UNBIASED opinion. Will be interesting to see what direction DC goes in '09. Until then, or later, if they continue in the wrong direction on the '09 I'm happy to keep my GTS...the BRASH one! 
Hopefully, nu-bes like venomviper(that say things like "what's a guy with an old GTS doing on the SRT Board?") and zerozorroespanol will have no owner feedback influence on DC. These two 2 month owners have NO idea what a VIPER is and I don't think we need their stupid, gen x perspective. They are just the typical posers(losers) that think they have to be in the "newest model" no matter what it is(even if it's a cheap, discounted model) to impress themselves. 
Bring back the <font color="red">BRASH</font><font color="white"> AMERICAN</font> <font color="blue">VIPER</font> <font color="red">!</font><font color="white">!</font><font color="blue">!</font> 
Others of course will disagree. However, it's interesting to get an OUTSIDE, UNBIASED opinion. Will be interesting to see what direction DC goes in '09. Until then, or later, if they continue in the wrong direction on the '09 I'm happy to keep my GTS...the BRASH one! Hopefully, nu-bes like venomviper(that say things like "what's a guy with an old GTS doing on the SRT Board?") and zerozorroespanol will have no owner feedback influence on DC. These two 2 month owners have NO idea what a VIPER is and I don't think we need their stupid, gen x perspective. They are just the typical posers(losers) that think they have to be in the "newest model" no matter what it is(even if it's a cheap, discounted model) to impress themselves. Bring back the <font color="red">BRASH</font><font color="white"> AMERICAN</font> <font color="blue">VIPER</font> <font color="red">!</font><font color="white">!</font><font color="blue">!</font> Dawg2Snake
Enthusiast
Hahaha... 2 of my vehicles are on this short list: The Viper, and the Range Rover.
I disagree wholeheartedly on both. I love the looks of the Gen III Viper, and it's what drew me to it in 2003, rather than 2002 and earlier. Granted, it may be considered watered down for some, but for me it is simply that the rough edges were smoothed out. To each his own.
As for my Range Rover, I have had it for going on 3 years and I love it. Unbeatable looks and appeal for an SUV. It's great quality and the minor problems or glitches that mine had were all covered by warranty. It's not a Lexus by any means, but it's been in the shop far less than either of my Vipers right out of the box.
I disagree wholeheartedly on both. I love the looks of the Gen III Viper, and it's what drew me to it in 2003, rather than 2002 and earlier. Granted, it may be considered watered down for some, but for me it is simply that the rough edges were smoothed out. To each his own.
As for my Range Rover, I have had it for going on 3 years and I love it. Unbeatable looks and appeal for an SUV. It's great quality and the minor problems or glitches that mine had were all covered by warranty. It's not a Lexus by any means, but it's been in the shop far less than either of my Vipers right out of the box.
VENOMAHOLIC
Enthusiast
It is obvious that they didn't actually drive the Viper before writing the article. If that is a survey from men then judging by looks alone is a fatal flaw here.
DevilDog. I purchased my first Viper in 1995. Do I qualify to have an opinion, even if it differs from yours? Note also I joined MCVO and VCA that year and every year since (as such I have given over $1k to the club). What have you given beyond your unique perspective and criticism?
DEVILDOG
VCA Member North TX
I clearly stated that others will have a different opinion and certainly a member such as yourself is entitled to state it. As far as me I bought my first and only Viper in '98 and was a paying N. Texas VCA Member from '98(no new owner comps back then) through '04(left Club due to the secret appointment of National officers versus open elections, lack of visibility to Club financials and a non-driving local VCA. So I contributed $700 to the Club not to mention VCA clothing purchases etc.. I have also helped to support the volume necessary for the vendors in the Viper aftermarket. So by YOUR standards do I qualify to have an opinion even if it differs from yours? BTW, what is YOUR opinion? I'm honestly interested in hearing it!
ViperCrazed
Enthusiast
round 3......... DING! 
Warfang
Enthusiast
Here's the thing... the gen3's are beautiful and kicks @$$. They were designed with a lot of feedback, and like the article implied, too much feedback. I don't want a car designed by commitee and focus groups to cater to the tastes of many people like me. I want a car that I have never imagined wanting.
Love at first sight is not the same as having a preference for a blonde or redhead. When you see it, you KNOW it. It's everything you've ever wanted, but never realized it. That's what the Gen1/2's did. Gen3's never had that kind of effect on the general public. I don't necessarily agree with it being on a top 6 list, but their points are valid.
Love at first sight is not the same as having a preference for a blonde or redhead. When you see it, you KNOW it. It's everything you've ever wanted, but never realized it. That's what the Gen1/2's did. Gen3's never had that kind of effect on the general public. I don't necessarily agree with it being on a top 6 list, but their points are valid.
DEVILDOG
VCA Member North TX
Very well said and PC...no disrespect.
I guess I'm just BRASH! Go figure. SweetRed04
Viper Owner
This list is just someone's or group's opinion. They are entitled to it. No one should get angry over some random list...
I prefer the Gen 3, they don't-so what. The standard HP is clearly better with the Gen 3 and a FULL convertible became available.
The SRT-10 is the only sub $100,000, 500+ HP convertible sports car availble.
If you like to mod them, Vipers are still CLEARLY in a class by themselves for performance upgradability.
I prefer the Gen 3, they don't-so what. The standard HP is clearly better with the Gen 3 and a FULL convertible became available.
The SRT-10 is the only sub $100,000, 500+ HP convertible sports car availble.
If you like to mod them, Vipers are still CLEARLY in a class by themselves for performance upgradability.
Okay I will bite. For reference here is the quote from the source above:
"When the second-generation Dodge Viper hit the road in 1996, performance and style were even better than the car it replaced. Okay, the optional ketchup-red and mustard-yellow color scheme may not have been a high point, but the rest of the car rocked. Even the non-Mopar guys had to admit it was an awesome car to test drive. Since the latest edition debuted in 2003, the enthusiasm has quieted a bit. As always, power is stratospheric -- on the track, it's the best Viper yet -- but the exterior look falls short of shameless extroversion. We blame homogenization. Dodge has allowed too much owner feedback and too many bean counters to dilute the brash edginess of the earlier cars. Rumors hint at a production breather for 2007, a new engine for '08 and a redesign for '09. We feel it can't come too soon. "
Styling is a difficult area to give an honest opinion as we see the whole but have difficulty identifying the characteristics that make the whole less desireable to us. In that light the loss of the clam shell hood with upward scallop and the sport bar are the most noticeable aspects that have reduced the edge. Having the car gain in height, both in total and at the wheel wells takes away some of the menacing appearance. The edginess, though consistent with many cars in the early 2000's, distances itself from the smooth lines of the RT/10 and GTS.
Note I did not mention anything about the articles inaccuracies about the 2nd generation and ketchup and mustard coloring (they are obviously mixing up the 1st generation 96 RT/10 with the 2nd generation GTS). I also do not believe the 1998 RT/10 with GTS hood and fascia is that much different to state it is an improved version. More likely they are referring to the GTS lines vs the RT/10, regardless of RT/10 generation. For that is pure preference as both sides have a strong showing.
Now I have both the Gen I and Gen III side by side in the garage (or on top of each other with the RT/10 in the "masculine position" - on top) - for 3 years. In that time the RT/10 got almost no use. That indicates from the driving perspective the Gen III won hands down (except for the ridiculous cabin heat).
In all I believe that if the Gen III hood would have been more like the comp coupe, opening at the rear and having the fenders blended in would have improved the front immensely. Smoothing out the hard edge would also have been my preference and would aid the "wide" appearance of the hood from the drivers view. The side gill opening absolutely slants the wrong (i.e. corvette) way. The back end is more difficult as without the sport bar the RT/10 would look plain. Somehow removing the Stratus/Honda S2000 style CHMSL would help. As would having a rear Viper emblem.
There are obviously more areas that I would have wanted different, but I feel these are the primary areas that have affected sales and brotherlyness between early and Gen III owners. Will these or other areas change in the future? Inquiring minds want to know. The only thing that is certain is change itself. Timing and content is and should be a mystery.
"When the second-generation Dodge Viper hit the road in 1996, performance and style were even better than the car it replaced. Okay, the optional ketchup-red and mustard-yellow color scheme may not have been a high point, but the rest of the car rocked. Even the non-Mopar guys had to admit it was an awesome car to test drive. Since the latest edition debuted in 2003, the enthusiasm has quieted a bit. As always, power is stratospheric -- on the track, it's the best Viper yet -- but the exterior look falls short of shameless extroversion. We blame homogenization. Dodge has allowed too much owner feedback and too many bean counters to dilute the brash edginess of the earlier cars. Rumors hint at a production breather for 2007, a new engine for '08 and a redesign for '09. We feel it can't come too soon. "
Styling is a difficult area to give an honest opinion as we see the whole but have difficulty identifying the characteristics that make the whole less desireable to us. In that light the loss of the clam shell hood with upward scallop and the sport bar are the most noticeable aspects that have reduced the edge. Having the car gain in height, both in total and at the wheel wells takes away some of the menacing appearance. The edginess, though consistent with many cars in the early 2000's, distances itself from the smooth lines of the RT/10 and GTS.
Note I did not mention anything about the articles inaccuracies about the 2nd generation and ketchup and mustard coloring (they are obviously mixing up the 1st generation 96 RT/10 with the 2nd generation GTS). I also do not believe the 1998 RT/10 with GTS hood and fascia is that much different to state it is an improved version. More likely they are referring to the GTS lines vs the RT/10, regardless of RT/10 generation. For that is pure preference as both sides have a strong showing.
Now I have both the Gen I and Gen III side by side in the garage (or on top of each other with the RT/10 in the "masculine position" - on top) - for 3 years. In that time the RT/10 got almost no use. That indicates from the driving perspective the Gen III won hands down (except for the ridiculous cabin heat).
In all I believe that if the Gen III hood would have been more like the comp coupe, opening at the rear and having the fenders blended in would have improved the front immensely. Smoothing out the hard edge would also have been my preference and would aid the "wide" appearance of the hood from the drivers view. The side gill opening absolutely slants the wrong (i.e. corvette) way. The back end is more difficult as without the sport bar the RT/10 would look plain. Somehow removing the Stratus/Honda S2000 style CHMSL would help. As would having a rear Viper emblem.
There are obviously more areas that I would have wanted different, but I feel these are the primary areas that have affected sales and brotherlyness between early and Gen III owners. Will these or other areas change in the future? Inquiring minds want to know. The only thing that is certain is change itself. Timing and content is and should be a mystery.
Let's see.... Someone writes an article expressing an opinion about the design of the Gen III. So what? Its just their opinion. It is a subjective issue. I think that the Gen III coupe, when lowered a bit is by far and away the best looking Viper ever made - particularly in black. ( Alot of other people also seem to feel the same way since people are constantly giving me thumbs up and taking pictures of the car on the highway, while it is parked, etc.) Of course, I am biased since I have one but my previous Viper was a 1999 black/cognac GTS which, as of 1999, was fantastic. Now, after driving the new coupe a bit more than 2000 miles, the 1999 GTS, in comparison, was lacking in a number of areas. (See the extensive comments in the post "Its here!") All of these areas were pointed out to DC by those of us who actually drive our Vipers more than up and down the driveway. DC listened and fixed most, if not all of the problems noted. The same process is going on now with the Gen III's. Look at the posted answers by the SRT engineers on the recent chat. They are listening to us and working on improvements. It looks like some improvements will consist of optional equipment and some will be upgraded parts. Remember, Vipers are constantly upgraded even within the same model year as the need arises. In the meantime, those who want to upgrade now can do so. I had Woodhouse do so before I took delivery of the new coupe. I do not think that it is a coincidence that the engineers mentioned some of the upgrades that also happen to be currently offered by Woodhouse. As the largest Viper dealer in the country with an extensive performance department, Woodhouse probably maintains a relationship with the DC Viper people and has considerable information to share with them based on their experience in modifying the Gen III Vipers.
V10SpeedLuvr
Enthusiast
I'll let them slide on that remark. I'm sure they drive a Jetta. I drive a Viper. I win
I can't remember when I have read so many "enthusiasts" and "car club members" constantly concerned and apparently worried about everything SOMEONE ELSE has to say about their choice in specialty vehicles. So many of you seem to need validation that your Viper is the right color, has the right wheels, is the correct generation, the fastest, lowest, and every other concern down to the lousy license plate frame (mines cheap black plastic - lighter). AND it seems everyone has an opinion (me too) to offer and if that opinion is just plain mean spirited more the better so we can all be entertained by the flaming banter that is not always tongue in cheek. I guess it's because I am definitely old school and if I don't have something nice to say, I try not to say it. Of course, I have dabbled on the dark side here with many of my posts, but my motive was to rid me of losers interrupting my flow of concentration while reading threads or just plain entertainment.
While I'm farting out of both sides of my ***, who the f really cares what list it's on or if it's still the king, what the 08 is going to be or cost(DC, if you haven't figured it out by now, doesn't give a sh*t about us and our sh*tty opinions - we are already potential customers) or if it looks ok to other members here. I have never been a "car club" joiner, this is my third experience. First back in the early days w/vettes and they were just a bunch of posers and yuppies; then most recently with Harleys and choppers. While I still found my niche being a lone dog, there was never any of the silly bickering I've seen here with another's Viper. I mean, you always gave a thumbs up even if it was a rat bike or ridiculous looking yellow corvette with tru spokes and sh*tty graphics. It was the owner's canvas and his money.
I purchased my 05 last July, became a VCA member with purchase and accidently came across this forum and the "other". I choose to stay here, even after learning my way around an e-site and e-personnas, etc. Still why can't we just give a thumbs up to someone who posts their Viper's picture and is probably happy as hell about his good fortune (Rodney King). Yeah, I know some of you know these other guys and have learned how to banter and stuff, but I'm talking the mean spirited, nasty attacks, and very personnal insults. If this were to happen in one of my biker clubs I know for a fact some guy named Mondo would be scooting it cross country right now with a pistola and chain looking for the dorky dweeb behind a keyboard that insulted his horse! And I'm not talking outlaw, I was always too much of a p u ss y to even think of riding with them and they wouldn't have me, rub - rich urban biker/rubb - rich urban biker ***** (my trophy wife).
This additional crap regarding the Gen 3 vs. the real Vipers is stupid. I haven't owned a Mopar my whole life until at 59 I bought the 05 and wouldn't even think of a used or unregistered fresh Gen II or I. I bought it because it was an easy vehicle to get aftermarket performance and appearance parts for, had the reminants of a warrantee after I get done with it, and didn't look like a dork-mobile or ricer's ride. I've done the street rod, hot rod, muscle car, sports car, etc. and I was looking for something new and different. None of my buddies or acquaintences have one, never did. I always have had enough confidence as an individual that I can always stand behind my decisions, know what I like, want and don't really give a flying f about what anyone else thought. So far, I've not done too bad, never had a problem offing something I was done with (*** for every seat) to someone with similar tastes.
I absolutley know that no one cares, and the crap, insults, "intelligent learned" disagreements and debates will continue. I also know as long as my Black Queen ***** is still in my possession I'll be here having rants and fun.
For Chrissake, every one of us are capable of making our own minds up and do whatever we want with our own wheels and $$.
And when it gets to private feuds like devildick and zippyzorro, take it to PM. Better yet, Texas to Florida just ain't that far apart. Shoud be a great cruise in your Vipers. Meet up, mouths, fists, knives, guns, and dirty looks at a Starbucks at high noon somewhere in between. It's just not that entertaining when I know both of you guys are just wasting good space and you are just two keyboard bad guy outlaws.
Larry
While I'm farting out of both sides of my ***, who the f really cares what list it's on or if it's still the king, what the 08 is going to be or cost(DC, if you haven't figured it out by now, doesn't give a sh*t about us and our sh*tty opinions - we are already potential customers) or if it looks ok to other members here. I have never been a "car club" joiner, this is my third experience. First back in the early days w/vettes and they were just a bunch of posers and yuppies; then most recently with Harleys and choppers. While I still found my niche being a lone dog, there was never any of the silly bickering I've seen here with another's Viper. I mean, you always gave a thumbs up even if it was a rat bike or ridiculous looking yellow corvette with tru spokes and sh*tty graphics. It was the owner's canvas and his money.
I purchased my 05 last July, became a VCA member with purchase and accidently came across this forum and the "other". I choose to stay here, even after learning my way around an e-site and e-personnas, etc. Still why can't we just give a thumbs up to someone who posts their Viper's picture and is probably happy as hell about his good fortune (Rodney King). Yeah, I know some of you know these other guys and have learned how to banter and stuff, but I'm talking the mean spirited, nasty attacks, and very personnal insults. If this were to happen in one of my biker clubs I know for a fact some guy named Mondo would be scooting it cross country right now with a pistola and chain looking for the dorky dweeb behind a keyboard that insulted his horse! And I'm not talking outlaw, I was always too much of a p u ss y to even think of riding with them and they wouldn't have me, rub - rich urban biker/rubb - rich urban biker ***** (my trophy wife).
This additional crap regarding the Gen 3 vs. the real Vipers is stupid. I haven't owned a Mopar my whole life until at 59 I bought the 05 and wouldn't even think of a used or unregistered fresh Gen II or I. I bought it because it was an easy vehicle to get aftermarket performance and appearance parts for, had the reminants of a warrantee after I get done with it, and didn't look like a dork-mobile or ricer's ride. I've done the street rod, hot rod, muscle car, sports car, etc. and I was looking for something new and different. None of my buddies or acquaintences have one, never did. I always have had enough confidence as an individual that I can always stand behind my decisions, know what I like, want and don't really give a flying f about what anyone else thought. So far, I've not done too bad, never had a problem offing something I was done with (*** for every seat) to someone with similar tastes.
I absolutley know that no one cares, and the crap, insults, "intelligent learned" disagreements and debates will continue. I also know as long as my Black Queen ***** is still in my possession I'll be here having rants and fun.
For Chrissake, every one of us are capable of making our own minds up and do whatever we want with our own wheels and $$.
And when it gets to private feuds like devildick and zippyzorro, take it to PM. Better yet, Texas to Florida just ain't that far apart. Shoud be a great cruise in your Vipers. Meet up, mouths, fists, knives, guns, and dirty looks at a Starbucks at high noon somewhere in between. It's just not that entertaining when I know both of you guys are just wasting good space and you are just two keyboard bad guy outlaws.
Larry
ViperCrazed
Enthusiast
Im currently looking for a list of closest starbucks close to my house That ^^^^^^ was good.
That ^^^^^^ was good.
DEVILDOG
VCA Member North TX
Why don't you try practicing what you preach...hypocrite?
ViperCrazed
Enthusiast
hmmmm. seems to be a few starbucks in Birmingham. Good halfway point for you guys. Im sure a lot of vette guys will be attending I know I will. They will need someone to take care of the loser's Viper.
I know I will. They will need someone to take care of the loser's Viper.
DEVILDOG
VCA Member North TX
Yeah, I am. i.e. "both sides of my ***". Else, which Starbucks do you suggest?
Larry
I'm not a yuppie and I'm too fiscally conservative to spend $5 for a cup of coffee. Let's make it ******'s.
ViperCrazed
Enthusiast
great, A ******* is even closer to my house.
DEVILDOG
VCA Member North TX
Larry
Well at least we agree on something! I'll buy the first round after I kick your asp!
ViperCrazed
Enthusiast
dang, I thought you lived in FL. Dont worry about the Vette guys. Yours truly, A.K.A. Viper Fanatic -in training, would step up and succeed the Viper throne.
DEVILDOG
VCA Member North TX
Warfang
Enthusiast
We should have a gen1 vs 2 vs 3 paintball shootout at a starbucks during VOI... losing gen buys beer!
MK2_Viper
Viper Owner
- Joined
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whatever, I still feel the 06 Coupe I have is the most beautiful car I have ever seen....I can have any car, and that is what I choose to drive every day...
Dawg2Snake
Enthusiast
This sentence is beautiful! This is my day to day philosophy, and I could not have said it better. Too bad the rest of your post contradicted it over and over...
InjectTheVenom
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2004
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We should have a gen1 vs 2 vs 3 paintball shootout at a starbucks during VOI... losing gen buys beer!
Mail this idea to the organisation and who knows
... would love to see video footage of it 
