What is the purpose of the SRT Division?

[FlyBryViper]

My Audi has a better interior than all cars in it's class, 2002 A6. Only been to the dealer 3 times, 2 free oil changes, 1 free battery. 27K trouble free miles. Saved me thousands compared to the MB, Jag, or BMW the wife "thought" she wanted. Last weekend we looked at the new A8L, shw wants to move-up to a larger seadn to make room for baby #3.
Which model Audi is spending so much time at the dealer?

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Craig,
I thought you were saying that with the foreign cars were getting a better car for the money?

Wouldn't it make more sense to compare cars in the same actual price range?

Then you say,
"You pay for what you get, most people on this board can appreciate that."

That's quite a concept you have there.

If I've got that right, I think it would mean that a $40k Mercedes would be a better car than a $30k Chevy.

And you would compare them car for car, ignoring the price, and say the Mercedes is better.

OK, I think I understand now.

Ok then,

Take a Honda accord and a ford taurus/chevy lumina/Chrysler 300 and drive them all for 200K miles then look at what you've got after that.

Look at what car has visited the dealership the least, which car still is solid with no creaks or rattles, and most importantly, look at which car has retained more of it's original value.

 

[joe117]

By the numbers from JD Powers.
Problems per 100 vehicles.
Honda Accord - 102
Ford Taurus - 127
Chevy Lumina - 120
Chrysler 300 - 123

Ok, it looks like the Honda is better. It doesn't look like the Honda is very much better. It doesn't look like the Honda is enough better to call the others junk.

Are there any other differences between these cars?

Do any of them need to have cam drive belts changed numerous times during the useful life of the car?

Are they all the same size interior?
Do they all have the same wheel base?
Trunk space?
Cup holders? ;-)

Look Craig,
You have the idea in your head that the Euro/Japanese cars are a giant leap ahead of the American cars for the same money.
I don't think that is really true. I can't find any data that shows you to be correct.

The data I see shows that some of the imports are better than US made cars and some are not better.

Resale value at high miles?
Anyone I know who has a car with 200k miles on it, wouldn't expect it to be worth much of anything and they wouldn't care.

You tell me Craig,
What's that Honda worth after 200k miles?
What are any of those cars worth after 200k miles?

 

[SNKEBIT]

Which model Audi is spending so much time at the dealer?

A-6's averaging about every other month for stupid stuff. all under 40k miles


you must of got the "one" good one!!! LOL

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Joe,

Here are some results of of Manheim Auctions dealer auction results.

www.manheim.com

Make Model Subseries Year Color Drs Cyl Fuel Trans 4x4 EW Radio Top Int Mileage Price

BUICK PARK AVENUE 2001 IVORY 4 6 Gas A Y CD HT L 103046 $5950

DODGE INTREPID SE 2002 STONE WH 4 6 Gas A Y CD C 71595 $4300

FORD TAURUS SE 2001 BLACK CC 4 6 Gas A Y Tape C 77137 $4400

HONDA ACCORD EX 2002 SILV 4 6 Gas A Y CD SR 68242 $11900



There is no argument, Hondas simply hold their value the best.

The results I posted were as of last week sold in auctions in mid-america, with the results being typical across all auctions I looked at.

 

[joe117]

The Honda you picked is a 2002.
The Honda you picked has the lowest miles.

I have no idea what the actual selling price would have been for any of these cars when new.

Craig, I'll have to say your argument seems a little weak.
You started out talking about the quality of the cars.

When it was pointed out that you were not comparing cars of similar prices, you changed the argument to resale value after 200k miles.

When it was pointed out that people just don't care what a car is worth after 200k miles, you changed the argument to auction prices of cars you picked to prove your point.

I don't know where you are going with this but you are beginning to look like what we used to call
a snob.
In the old days, 60s, Magazines like Car&Driver were filled with car snobs. Little sports cars were the thing and anything else was, shall we say, smelly.

You show contempt for any US made cars, claiming that the Euro/Japanese cars are better simply because you say they are.
You never answer any points brought against your argument.

Do you still have to change cam drive belts on Hondas? If so, doesn't the car have to go into the shop, just as if it had a problem?
A car designed with a belt change as regular maintenance?
Well,
Perhaps Hondas don't need that any longer. I don't know.

Let me give you a point for your side, Honda makes reliable cars.
OK, that's one for you.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

The Honda you picked is a 2002.
The Honda you picked has the lowest miles.

I have no idea what the actual selling price would have been for any of these cars when new.

Craig, I'll have to say your argument seems a little weak.
You started out talking about the quality of the cars.

When it was pointed out that you were not comparing cars of similar prices, you changed the argument to resale value after 200k miles.

When it was pointed out that people just don't care what a car is worth after 200k miles, you changed the argument to auction prices of cars you picked to prove your point.

I don't know where you are going with this but you are beginning to look like what we used to call
a snob.
In the old days, 60s, Magazines like Car&Driver were filled with car snobs. Little sports cars were the thing and anything else was, shall we say, smelly.

You show contempt for any US made cars, claiming that the Euro/Japanese cars are better simply because you say they are.
You never answer any points brought against your argument.

Do you still have to change cam drive belts on Hondas? If so, doesn't the car have to go into the shop, just as if it had a problem?
A car designed with a belt change as regular maintenance?
Well,
Perhaps Hondas don't need that any longer. I don't know.

Let me give you a point for your side, Honda makes reliable cars.
OK, that's one for you.

The intrepid is also a 2002 and the miles are all within 5K, stop nit picking, the difference in price makes it east to see which cars hold their value better. Pick up an autotrader if you think I am wrong.

 

[joe117]

Weak Craig,
Do Hondas still require timing belt replacement?

Tell me, I don't know.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Like all cars they require proper maintainance. You're mental to think any domestic car is going to hold it's value better.

 

[joe117]

Don't Hondas require a belt change at about 60k miles?
Perhaps it's a little longer.
How much does that cost?

That's the same as a trip to the shop for a broken part every 60k miles isn't it?

What's the difference?

And say you have a Lexus or an Audi or a Mercedes, what's the cost of the required visits to the shop for "maintenance"?

 

[CHAD]

Ferrari's require a belt change at 15k. POS!

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Don't Hondas require a belt change at about 60k miles?
Perhaps it's a little longer.
How much does that cost?

That's the same as a trip to the shop for a broken part every 60k miles isn't it?

What's the difference?

And say you have a Lexus or an Audi or a Mercedes, what's the cost of the required visits to the shop for "maintenance"?

it's 90K miles roughly, it's just proper maintenance. With a honda you could change 5 timing belts and the money you lost still wouldn't equal the difference in depreciation on a north american POS.

Most routine maintenance on premium european and japanese cars are included now in the purchase price. Sure stuff can break and it's going to cost you some $$ but people who are owners of these cars know that and accept it. Go spend an hour at a mercedes dealership and an hour at a GM dealership and you'll see why people don't mind spending the extra $$ if they have the means. I couldn't imagine taking a CTS-V into be worked on at the same dealership as some POS cavalier.

 

[Lawrenzo]

Looking at the JD Power charts- it shows that the American car companies have around 20-25% more defects than either Honda or Toyota. Now that's a huge difference in my book.

Having owned 4 Acuras from 1990 through 2002 I can say with sincerity that they were well built, highly reliable, virtually trouble free cars. These were my "family" cars. My fun cars were all American made and were virtually all pieces of crap that landed in the hapless dealerships so many times(with faaaar fewer miles driven) that my wife would constantly remind me how lousy they were.

I should have bought the Supra turbo just to keep her quiet