Will DRB work on 2008?
- Thread starter CCBrian
- Start date
Viper Wizard
Enthusiast
A DRB will not work, you need a Starscan!
Interestingly, my DRB III (purchased from Dodge in Jan. 2008) reads more on our 2008 Viper than I expected...including the ABS system...and, yes it does open the actuator menu though I did not try to cycle the valves.
Viper Wizard
Enthusiast
Well you got me? My DRB doesn't work on 08's and I have all the current updates or so Chrysler says I have?
The 08 has a hybrid bus with PCI and CAN bus. The wiring for both bus systems does go to the Data link connector. The PCM and Air bag on on the CAN bus (starscan) everything else is on the PCI. The DRB should only be used to verify PCI bus operation on the 08, not for diagnostics or code retrieval
Chuck, maybe yours is "too smart" !!! When mine came in Jan. 2008, I noticed on boot up that it was version "60.0", noting that a Tech friend was using a version labeled in the "80's ". So, I promptly called the techline at SPX-Miller Tools and was told that I would be just fine using the tool on a Viper as nothing had been added that was Viper specific for many years. They did offer to send me an update disc (saying that it was for updates that applied to other Chrysler vehicles) to install that would bring me up tp spec. I indicated that I was more than a little irritated at receiving an "ancient" version of the DRB III for my $6500.00 bucks, but that I would take the disc anyway. The new disc was marked "Jan 2008". Well, when I first started to update the DRB with my laptop, I noticed conflicting commands, and aborted.
The unit works well on all of our Vipers (96-03), and as mentioned, at least recognizes a few area things on the 08.
Now, when applied to a 2006 Commander...NO SALE...it doesn't recognize the brand, let alone anything else...all of which I expected as the Jeep is supposed to be a CAN bus beast.
Is it possible that a fully updated version locks out or ignores CAN bus??
Maybe "dumb" is better for me.
The unit works well on all of our Vipers (96-03), and as mentioned, at least recognizes a few area things on the 08.
Now, when applied to a 2006 Commander...NO SALE...it doesn't recognize the brand, let alone anything else...all of which I expected as the Jeep is supposed to be a CAN bus beast.
Is it possible that a fully updated version locks out or ignores CAN bus??
Maybe "dumb" is better for me.
When ALL else fails...open the book !!
In this case "2008 Wiring Diagrams Viper "...on page 8W-18-3 it shows several entities on the PCI bus:
Module-Anti-Lock-Brakes, Module-Body Control, Module-Occupant Restraint Controller, Cluster, Controller-A/C-Heater, Radio, Module-Gateway, Receiver-Satellite, and Radio (shown twice).
On page 8W-18-4, it shows "Module-Power Train"is on the CAN bus.
Hope that this helps...it helps ME !!
In this case "2008 Wiring Diagrams Viper "...on page 8W-18-3 it shows several entities on the PCI bus:
Module-Anti-Lock-Brakes, Module-Body Control, Module-Occupant Restraint Controller, Cluster, Controller-A/C-Heater, Radio, Module-Gateway, Receiver-Satellite, and Radio (shown twice).
On page 8W-18-4, it shows "Module-Power Train"is on the CAN bus.
Hope that this helps...it helps ME !!
OppositeLock
VCA Member
Would a StarMOBILE be a better choice over a StarSCAN as it is still being supported (at least until 2011) for a DIYer?
As I posted in another thread, StarMobile is NOT offered by SPX-Miller Tools to the aftermarket any longer...and, when coupled with the negative comments concerning the StarMobile that I have heard from several Viper Techs, I am leaning to the StarMobile as you have suggested...noting that one needs a laptop to use in conjunction with the StarMobile. If I tripped across a decent StarScan at a LOW price, I might consider it... though my own single use experience with it was less than satisfactory (and, YES, an experienced Tech was helping me).
StarMobile info:
https://techauthority.gltghosting.c...rForm?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10051
StarMobile info:
https://techauthority.gltghosting.c...rForm?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10051
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OppositeLock
VCA Member
Steve, A little confused by your post as which device you are referring to but I am with you on the "need" for a StarMOBILE for '08-09 Vipers.
I've been doing a little bit of research; the StarSCAN was discontinued as of December 3, 2008 and is no longer available new to anyone. I have been told that the 9.04 version update for this device will be the last and will only support the CAN-bused vehicles (Viper included) through 2009. With that, it is sufficient to perform 99% of the OBD-CAN based service work on our '08-09 Vipers; the exceptions can be performed with a DRB. It is my understanding that the StarSCAN does not require a computer except for re-flashing ECUs or s/w updates.
The StarMOBILE, the smaller scan tool, can be used as a standalone or a pass-through device. Either way it performs all of the functions on '08-09 Vipers as the StarSCAN. The drawback in standalone mode is the small screen size. In pass-through mode you use the StarMOBILE desktop client on a computer to perform the tasks. It appears that the StarMOBILE is likely to be supported at least untill MY2011 as it is compatible with the new wiTECH system.
These tools are both a bit kludged in operation. I like the fact that the StarMOBILE is available in an 'aftermarket' (non-dealer) kit and can be updated using TechAuthority. BTW, my notes show the most current DRB version at 64.1; I do not know what version the dealer's have access to through DealerConnect.
Sorry for any confusion. While my intent is to buy the StarMobile, I will admit that if I came across a CHEAP, working StarScan in good condition, I would consider grabbing it just because it is a free standing device.
As you know, the StarScan was in the $4000.00 range new in the aftermarket form...so, in a way, the StarMobile is a bargain!!
As you know, the StarScan was in the $4000.00 range new in the aftermarket form...so, in a way, the StarMobile is a bargain!!
OppositeLock
VCA Member
Agreed. With the current conditions, there will be plenty becoming available in the future…
Sorry to bring up an old discussion but thought I would update. I finally got our 2008 ACR brake system flushed out with Motul 600 and decided to see if the DRB would bleed the ABS system. And.......it worked! I am glad I had not run out and bought a Star Scan as had been suggested. In fact, it found a lot of functions on the car to read-much more than most have indicated.So some good news for once. Mine was last updated last year through a friend at Dodge-I believe it is the most current version.
Yes, as I had posted above (as well as others)...a 2008 Viper (and presumably 2009) requires BOTH types of rather expensive scan tools to complete the various jobs.
There are several areas of interest to me that are on the PCI bus and therefore require the use of a DRB III, as noted above...and, the CAN bus areas require EITHER the "old & slow" StarScan, or the newer StarMOBILE coupled to a laptop, OR the NEWER wiTECH VCI Pod also connected to a laptop via wireless or USB cable.
Having spent today speaking with SPX Miller, BrightStar, and wiTECH support, I think that I will solve MY CAN bus communication problems with a wiTECH...newer, faster, easier, cheaper!!!(I am NOT getting the wiTECH Access Gateway as I do not have that need to link several devices...just me, the wiTECH and the Viper).
PLEASE NOTE: If your laptop is running Vista...you may have problems...BUT, since my new CHEAP laptop-for-our-Vipers is a 32 bit Vista (NOT 64 bit) the wiTECH support folks tell me that I will be OK.
One final note from the the company responsible for bringing the above CAN bus instruments to the market: The long rumored "legacy" versions discussed for the 3 CAN bus scan tools mentioned that would have possibly allowed a single tool to operate on CAN and PCI busses DID NOT come into being...thus, one SEEMS to need a CAN bus tool and a PCI bus tool (DRB III) !!!!
THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS IN LIFE !!!!!!
UPDATE: There seems to be a different set of experiences amongst Viper Techs concerning the CAN bus tools. A very busy, well known Tech has NOT been able to access PCI bus module with a StarScan...while some have been successful. This leads me to believe that there could be differences tool to tool (or the programming of same)...or, a familiar available path may be quicker to take when a newer path has a steeper learning curve.
NEWS FLASH from BrightStar...the three CAN bus tools SHOULD BE CAPABLE of reading the J1850 (PCI bus).
My solution...I'm filling out the order forn, starting with the wiTECH, and plan a head to head test!!!
SORRY for creating all of this confusion...but I do feel that we are all obligated to pass on solid, valid, reliable info in this area given the expenses involved!!
Stay tuned.
There are several areas of interest to me that are on the PCI bus and therefore require the use of a DRB III, as noted above...and, the CAN bus areas require EITHER the "old & slow" StarScan, or the newer StarMOBILE coupled to a laptop, OR the NEWER wiTECH VCI Pod also connected to a laptop via wireless or USB cable.
Having spent today speaking with SPX Miller, BrightStar, and wiTECH support, I think that I will solve MY CAN bus communication problems with a wiTECH...newer, faster, easier, cheaper!!!(I am NOT getting the wiTECH Access Gateway as I do not have that need to link several devices...just me, the wiTECH and the Viper).
PLEASE NOTE: If your laptop is running Vista...you may have problems...BUT, since my new CHEAP laptop-for-our-Vipers is a 32 bit Vista (NOT 64 bit) the wiTECH support folks tell me that I will be OK.
One final note from the the company responsible for bringing the above CAN bus instruments to the market: The long rumored "legacy" versions discussed for the 3 CAN bus scan tools mentioned that would have possibly allowed a single tool to operate on CAN and PCI busses DID NOT come into being...thus, one SEEMS to need a CAN bus tool and a PCI bus tool (DRB III) !!!!
THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS IN LIFE !!!!!!
UPDATE: There seems to be a different set of experiences amongst Viper Techs concerning the CAN bus tools. A very busy, well known Tech has NOT been able to access PCI bus module with a StarScan...while some have been successful. This leads me to believe that there could be differences tool to tool (or the programming of same)...or, a familiar available path may be quicker to take when a newer path has a steeper learning curve.
NEWS FLASH from BrightStar...the three CAN bus tools SHOULD BE CAPABLE of reading the J1850 (PCI bus).
My solution...I'm filling out the order forn, starting with the wiTECH, and plan a head to head test!!!
SORRY for creating all of this confusion...but I do feel that we are all obligated to pass on solid, valid, reliable info in this area given the expenses involved!!
Stay tuned.
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From the Dodge Viper "2008 Service Information" CD purchased from Dodge Tech Authority:
DESCRIPTION
"The primary on-board communication network between microprocessor-based electronic control modules in this vehicle is the DaimlerChrysler Programmable Communication Interface (PCI) data bus system in combination with the CAN-C data bus, which forms a hybrid bus system. A data bus network minimizes redundant wiring connections; and, at the same time, reduces wire harness complexity, sensor current loads and controller hardware by allowing each sensing device to be connected to only one module (also referred to as a node). Each node reads, then broadcasts its sensor data over the bus for use by all other nodes requiring that data. Each node ignores the messages on the bus that it cannot use.
The CAN bus is a two-wire multiplex system, while the PCI bus is a single-wire multiplex system. Multiplexing is any system that enables the transmission of multiple messages over a single channel or circuit. The CAN bus is used for communication between the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) and the Occupant Classification Module (OCM), while all of the remaining body and interior nodes use the PCI bus.
The CAN-C data bus is the faster of the two systems providing near real-time communication (500 Kbps), while the PCI bus communicates at a much slower 10.4 Kbps. The CAN-C is used typically for communications between more critical nodes, while the slower PCI system is used for communications between less critical nodes.
The added speed of the CAN-C data bus is many times faster than previous data bus systems. This added speed facilitates the addition of more electronic control modules or nodes and the incorporation of many new electrical and electronic features in the vehicle.
The PCI bus also provides diagnostic access between a diagnostic scan tool connected to the industry-standard 16-way Data Link Connector (DLC), located below the driver side instrument panel and all nodes on either bus through a Central GateWay (CGW) or hub module. The CGW module is secured to the floor under the driver side front seat in the passenger compartment. This gateway physically and electrically isolates the CAN and PCI buses from each other and coordinates the bi-directional transfer of messages between them."
DESCRIPTION
"The primary on-board communication network between microprocessor-based electronic control modules in this vehicle is the DaimlerChrysler Programmable Communication Interface (PCI) data bus system in combination with the CAN-C data bus, which forms a hybrid bus system. A data bus network minimizes redundant wiring connections; and, at the same time, reduces wire harness complexity, sensor current loads and controller hardware by allowing each sensing device to be connected to only one module (also referred to as a node). Each node reads, then broadcasts its sensor data over the bus for use by all other nodes requiring that data. Each node ignores the messages on the bus that it cannot use.
The CAN bus is a two-wire multiplex system, while the PCI bus is a single-wire multiplex system. Multiplexing is any system that enables the transmission of multiple messages over a single channel or circuit. The CAN bus is used for communication between the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) and the Occupant Classification Module (OCM), while all of the remaining body and interior nodes use the PCI bus.
The CAN-C data bus is the faster of the two systems providing near real-time communication (500 Kbps), while the PCI bus communicates at a much slower 10.4 Kbps. The CAN-C is used typically for communications between more critical nodes, while the slower PCI system is used for communications between less critical nodes.
The added speed of the CAN-C data bus is many times faster than previous data bus systems. This added speed facilitates the addition of more electronic control modules or nodes and the incorporation of many new electrical and electronic features in the vehicle.
The PCI bus also provides diagnostic access between a diagnostic scan tool connected to the industry-standard 16-way Data Link Connector (DLC), located below the driver side instrument panel and all nodes on either bus through a Central GateWay (CGW) or hub module. The CGW module is secured to the floor under the driver side front seat in the passenger compartment. This gateway physically and electrically isolates the CAN and PCI buses from each other and coordinates the bi-directional transfer of messages between them."
You definitely CAN bleed the brakes without a DRB III..as long as you do not have air in the ABS hydraulic controller. If there is air in that component, you need a scan tool to cycle the actuator valves.
OppositeLock...while digging thru all of this, I did discover that IN SPITE of the fact that the StarScan is "old & slow" AND an order form for the device is no longer available on the SPX Miller website as accessed thru Dodge's Tech Authority,.... SPX Miller claims to have 150 of these devices available for sale (to the "aftermarket"...as is MY case)
...though I did not ask for a price. Who knows, maybe they are cheap!!
Just something to think about!!
...though I did not ask for a price. Who knows, maybe they are cheap!!
Just something to think about!!
