would guys add blower or upgrade to 08?

[adamlotus]

i have a 06 stock vert,im thinking of selling the 06 and getting the 08,or i could spend the 12-15 k on the paxton/exhaust upgrades.what would you guys do.upgrade or sell?
thanks

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

I would add blower. Its tried and true.. the 08s look almost identical to our 06's. And quite frankly every time Dodge comes out with a new viper, its got teething pains. I actually enjoy getting the LAST model of the previous generation, becasue that means they pretty much have all the bugs worked out. I think we are going to see 08s are going to have some issues. Lots of parts were changed, we have to see what happens.

Think back on the 03 differential and heads problem, winking/shutting off head lights, etc.
the 04's cam bolt issues (blown motors)
the 96-2000 frame recall.

No the 06's are pretty much sorted out (except for Dodges quality control issues, I have ******* about time and time again). The paxton system works on these cars, out of the box (unlike how poorly they worked out of the box on gen 2s).

Plus, you already took the hit on your 06, might as well enjoy it. And maybe wait a year or two and see what the new monster is.

After all, I bet we all feel Dodge isnt stopping here on the 08's. We all know they are being pushed by us to come out with an ACR version. And a while back there was talks about this was an evolution of the gen 3 viper, not a revolution. I think we'll see the newer badder/ better looking gen 4 in a few years. So what, you will have had to take a hit on 3 cars instead of 1, if you keep playing this "oh.. newest is bestest " game.

My thoughts. I probably wont buy another viper, but if I did, its going to be a gen 4, not a gen 3.5.

Jon

 

[ILLSMOQ]

You already took the hit on the 06, put a Paxton on it.

 

[evomind]

i would buy the new car rather than sink another 15k into a present car....
there are exceptions....if i KNEW i wanted to keep the car say 5 years or so, then maybe dumping a lot of money is worth it.
ive modded many cars, and i have learned my lesson. i dont keep cars long enough to get my moneys worth out of extensive mods, so for me, its not a good idea.
look at it this way....say u have an 06, lets say for arguments sake its worth 65k....for 15k more ur at 80k. a stones throw away from a brand new one.

lets say u drop the 15k into the 06 and u decide to sell. how much more is the car worth with the mods u just put in??
the answer is abt the same as when u started out b4 the mods....

ultimately the decision is yours and u do whats best for u.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Or do this math.. Mr Evo Mind. He took the hit on the 06 and lost that money, say 15k lost.

He then buys a 08 and takes that same hit again (you guys dont actually assume these are going to hold their value any better then any other generation do you? You're fooling yourself). There goes ANOTHER 15k in depreciation

Sorry, but in my book thats 30k lost from your deal too. So in theory, its a wash financially, which ever direction you go. But at least the 06 modded would be quicker then the 08 stock (dont mod the 08, because when you do, then you really start lossing money in this equation).

Jon

 

[evomind]

thats assuming we bought brand new at full msrp.
i bought my 06 cpe used with 1300 miles on it for 68k. i dont think ill lose 15k on it if i decide to sell next year for a new one....
i know ill "lose money" but thats gonna happen.

plus, if its a wash dollars wise, wouldnt u rather be in the 08?
i guess thats the question.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

He most certainly isnt going to be able to get an 08 used for a little while. So he will have to buy it new. (so at that point he is going to take the bigger hit).

2nd I think if someone offered me and 06 paxton or an 08 new.. I might take the paxton car, becasue of the concern i have over the issues 08s are going to have. They already are being delayed due to an engine issue. No, I'd rather not be a beta tester for Dodge.

And then in a year or two when the next one comes out, what do I do then? Sell again, to once again be a beta tester? Nope.. 06 is going to work great for me for a while. And after I clock off 60k miles I'll sell it and get the next hot thing. (already put 14k on my 06).

Jon

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Upgrade to 08.

I've never found a car to be that reliable after adding aftermarket parts.

Go with a new 08 and it's new 08 warranty. IMO 600hp off the showroom floor.

 

[MikeR]

You already took the hit on the 06, put a Paxton on it.

Agreed, keep it and put a Paxton on. You will have 600+ RWHP and still a very nice,new car.

If you add a couple other items, headers, better tune, you can get upwards of 675 rwhp. So for less money you will be way fatser then a 08 and you will have the WOW factor when you pop your hood.

 

[CarDude]

He most certainly isnt going to be able to get an 08 used for a little while. So he will have to buy it new. (so at that point he is going to take the bigger hit).

2nd I think if someone offered me and 06 paxton or an 08 new.. I might take the paxton car, becasue of the concern i have over the issues 08s are going to have. They already are being delayed due to an engine issue. No, I'd rather not be a beta tester for Dodge.

And then in a year or two when the next one comes out, what do I do then? Sell again, to once again be a beta tester? Nope.. 06 is going to work great for me for a while. And after I clock off 60k miles I'll sell it and get the next hot thing. (already put 14k on my 06).

Jon

You are complaining about warrantable issues...try upgarding to a Paxton and then losing your engine to whatever...then what is the price...15k+ (more, on top of what you already paid to mod it) and out of your pocket. Buy the factory HP and warranty it...I too have had bad luck with the aftermarket. I will only do small mods now...exhaust, computer, air flow...

 

[evomind]

He most certainly isnt going to be able to get an 08 used for a little while. So he will have to buy it new. (so at that point he is going to take the bigger hit).

2nd I think if someone offered me and 06 paxton or an 08 new.. I might take the paxton car, becasue of the concern i have over the issues 08s are going to have. They already are being delayed due to an engine issue. No, I'd rather not be a beta tester for Dodge.

And then in a year or two when the next one comes out, what do I do then? Sell again, to once again be a beta tester? Nope.. 06 is going to work great for me for a while. And after I clock off 60k miles I'll sell it and get the next hot thing. (already put 14k on my 06).

Jon

im not disagreeing with you per se, i just stated what I might do. there are other factors to consider when slapping on a paxton. if i was to track the car (which i do a few times a year) or take cross country trips, im not sure i would want to go that route.
everyones circumstances are different, and to each their own.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

You are complaining about warrantable issues...try upgarding to a Paxton and then losing your engine to whatever...then what is the price...15k+ (more, on top of what you already paid to mod it) and out of your pocket. Buy the factory HP and warranty it...I too have had bad luck with the aftermarket. I will only do small mods now...exhaust, computer, air flow...

Cardude is on to something. I don't think supercharging is for everyone. There are a lot of people out there that have these things put on their cars and just drive them with limited knowledge in regard to potential problems these systems can cause. You need to watch out for things like; detonation, loss of fuel pressure, air fuel mixtures, over boosting for the turbo guys...etc. In fact I'd be suprised 25 % of the guys on this site running super chargers or turbos have some form of permanent fuel monitering system installed.

I'll rephrase my answer. If you are confident in your ability to understand what is going on with your engine, then supercharge your 06. If you don't want to take on that responsibility, make the jump to the 08.

 

[black mamba1]

You will NOT be satisfied w/ 600 fly wheel hp in the long run, trust me. Yes, the 08 has a much better tranny and I believes handles better than the Gen 3's, but by this time next year or in early 09, you will be seeking out mods.

If you can wait on the 08, get it, but like someone said earlier, it is being delayed b/c of engine issues. You will always have a faster car w/ the 08 b/c it is 90 hp stronger than the Gen 3's off the floor. But I doubt you will get an 08 this year, then it will take a while before the mods show up that are compatible w/ the new computer system.
Put a blower on your 06 and have as much fun as possible. Sell or trade it for an 08 when they are available and systems to mod it are available and the kinks have been worked out of the new car.
I ordered the new 08 "like" hood for my 04 from Jeff Lemke, I ordered the 08 oil pan system from Final GTS. My car will look like the 08 but run a hell of a lot faster when I get it back!

 

[steponz]

I decided to go paxton all the way because....

Paxton is cheaper with more horsepower....
Paxton has been tested... and true....You can't say that about the new motor... Already having new issues...
The blower sound is total kick a$$...
I like to mod cars.....
The 08 is not going to be easy to mod for a couple of years....
You can't get yellow in 08....
There's not that much a change to really consider it...

Either way your wasting your money....
But I'll have more horsepower doing it...

Joe

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

lol.. I'm just giving my opinion guys (which I believe is what he is asking for). I already have a paxton 06 car. I will NOT be upgrading/trading it in on an 08. I just dont think its worth it. I think the 08 will be trumped soon by either the vette or a newer viper. So why take a baby step. (how funny is it that I think 90hp is a baby step. Still say way to go dodge on the power upgrade, but it doesnt seem like its enough to really squish the vette guys yet). ACR mine... lighter, faster, and track capable.. and THEN you have something I would be willing to trade my 06 paxton on !!

Ok, I'll stop hogging this thread... and actually I think we're all being amicable about this. Its good to see everyone has various options (all completely valid, becasue again, they are opinions).

Jon

 

[black mamba1]

Going to a Yankees game with family....$200.00
Buying a nice suit....$1,000
Spending money on your Viper and enjoying the car......PRICELESS!

 

[wallbanger]

Get the 08 not just for the power but for tweaked suspension, upgraded transmission,clutch, diferential...main reason i didn't put blower on my previous gen 111 was the sticky transmission.. no point of having all that power with sticky gears (especially 1 and 2)

 

[viperDoug]

I was told by a very reliable source (who posts often on this board) that all approximatley 1500 '08 Vipers have been allocated. Now he did say that most likely the larger dealers have used fake or employee names to get more of themin since Dodge is requiring a name and address in order for a dealer to order it. I have also spoken with those large dealers and they are not dealing on these vipers. They will be selling for no less than sticker. They are having engine problems right now and the plant has been shut down to fix it. I have been told that most of these ordered Vipers will not be delivered until '09. By the time they come out, the ones the dealers actuallyhave for sale (not allocated) are going to only a few and will demand a hefty price tag.

To answer your question. Don't buy the '08. You have not hit the bottom of the depreciation on your '06 right now. Wait two years and you will most likley get about the same as you will now for the car. Then get the new Viper if you still want it. If you are itching that bad for more power right now, then throw the Paxton on it and enjoy it.

Just my .02

 

[Paul Hawker]

I had an 03 with Paxton and Corsa. Unbelivably powerful car. That car had passion and a presence on the road that was hard to describe.

That being said, if I was to choose between the two I would go with the 08 due to it's higher level of refinement. (maybe get a coupe this time.)

Miss the Viper Days and track time that is harder to do with a supercharged convertable.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

I don't know where all this nonsense about engine problems is coming from. That's not my understanding at all. The only "problem" they're having is with suppliers. The whole drive train is new and the supplier providing parts for the new drive train is having a hard time keeping up with demand.

People shouldn't be trying to make it sound like there is something wrong with the engine. They just can't get the parts fast enough to keep up with build schedule.

They still anticipate completion dates for the first round of Vipers at the end of September with the first ones hitting the streets around the first or second week of October.

Whether or not to get a Paxton is personal preference. But it shouldn't be done based on BS rumors about "engine problems" in the '08.

 

[viperDoug]

I don't know where all this nonsense about engine problems is coming from. That's not my understanding at all. The only "problem" they're having is with suppliers. The whole drive train is new and the supplier providing parts for the new drive train is having a hard time keeping up with demand.

People shouldn't be trying to make it sound like there is something wrong with the engine. They just can't get the parts fast enough to keep up with build schedule.

They still anticipate completion dates for the first round of Vipers at the end of September with the first ones hitting the streets around the first or second week of October.

Whether or not to get a Paxton is personal preference. But it shouldn't be done based on BS rumors about "engine problems" in the '08.

There is in fact a casting problem with one of the engine parts. It is involving a supplier, but not with the supplier keeping up with demand, but rather manufacturing the parts correctly. They are remaking the part to fix this, whcih is in fact slowing down production drastically.

 

[adamlotus]

love this forum,thanks for all the responses.im more leaning on the blower package.how reliable has the package been for you guys with it.i drive my cars alot and drive them hard.i love everything about my car especially my color package blk with silver stripes.i think the 08s may have eng problems just like the 03 and o4.z06 had quite a few concerns also the first year in 06.

 

[Bobpantax]

Cardude is on to something. I don't think supercharging is for everyone. There are a lot of people out there that have these things put on their cars and just drive them with limited knowledge in regard to potential problems these systems can cause. You need to watch out for things like; detonation, loss of fuel pressure, air fuel mixtures, over boosting for the turbo guys...etc. In fact I'd be suprised 25 % of the guys on this site running super chargers or turbos have some form of permanent fuel monitering system installed.

I'll rephrase my answer. If you are confident in your ability to understand what is going on with your engine, then supercharge your 06. If you don't want to take on that responsibility, make the jump to the 08.

The stock Paxton kit for the Gen III , if properly installed and dyno tested and tuned, is very relaible. I have gone 8500 flawless miles with mine since May, 2006. Since the supercharger does not kick in to about 3300 RPM, it really does not affect around town or highway driving.

My Viper has the stock kit and Corsa cat back. The engine has no other mods except the swing arm oil pan. My numbers are 654/598 at the rear wheels with a very safe A/F all the way along the curve. In all respects the car performs like it was put together at the factory. This is due in large part to the fine job of installation done by Mark J and his Vipertechs at Woodhouse. If someone goes beyond the stock kit, it is a different story. However, based on anecdotal evidence, the stock kit produces more than enough power to cause many who have it to go into the pedal and scare themselves so badly that they may hesitate to do it again.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

I've had the Paxton on my car for a short time, so I can't comment first hand as to the long term reliabilty though I think will be great. Combined with the big V10, the power is everywhere and it is linear. This kit Paxton offers is by far the best supercharger kit I have installed or even seen installed. The fit and finish is perfect and it has a great track record.

But you need to remember these are aftermarket components. They are not going to be as reliable as factory installed items. When something like a fuel pump decides to stop working, the fuel mixture will go lean and the motor can be seriously damaged in a short time...most likely before you even realize something is wrong. With the Paxton for instance, I've seen more than one situation involving fuel pump/FCU failure...some of these stories ended with engine rebuilds. Once it is supercharged you should be aware of what is going on with your engine at all times to do that requires taking some extra steps.

 

[Bobpantax]

I've had the Paxton on my car for a short time, so I can't comment first hand as to the long term reliabilty though I think will be great. Combined with the big V10, the power is everywhere and it is linear. This kit Paxton offers is by far the best supercharger kit I have installed or even seen installed. The fit and finish is perfect and it has a great track record.

But you need to remember these are aftermarket components. They are not going to be as reliable as factory installed items. When something like a fuel pump decides to stop working, the fuel mixture will go lean and the motor can be seriously damaged in a short time...most likely before you even realize something is wrong. With the Paxton for instance, I've seen more than one situation involving fuel pump/FCU failure...some of these stories ended with engine rebuilds. Once it is supercharged you should be aware of what is going on with your engine at all times to do that requires taking some extra steps.

1. A skilled driver would recognize a fuel problem immediately. A nonskilled driver should not be driving a supercharged Viper. A supercharged Viper, particularly with cold tires, in the hands of a deep pocket, mechanically ignorant, inexperienced driver is a danger to that driver and anyone on the road near that driver as evidenced by other posts describing Viper bites and wrecks.

2. Please describe the fuel pump/FCU failures that you have seen. This is important data and the specifics should be shared with the membership. Were the installations stock Paxton installations at stock boost? Some have tuned the car beyond the performance parameters of the stock fuel system and the stock Paxton supplemental fuel system components. If there is a failure under these conditions, it is the fault of the owner and the tuner. Quite frequently there are posts like "my mods our done" with RWHP and RWTorque quoted without A/F data. In some cases, there is A/F data and the A/F is too lean to be safe. In still other cases, there is no dyno testing at all so that available data, if any, may not be determined under load.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

1. A skilled driver would recognize a fuel problem immediately. A nonskilled driver should not be driving a supercharged Viper. A supercharged Viper, particularly with cold tires, in the hands of a deep pocket, mechanically ignorant, inexperienced driver is a danger to that driver and anyone on the road near that driver as evidenced by other posts describing Viper bites and wrecks.

2. Please describe the fuel pump/FCU failures that you have seen. This is important data and the specifics should be shared with the membership. Were the installations stock Paxton installations at stock boost? Some have tuned the car beyond the performance parameters of the stock fuel system and the stock Paxton supplemental fuel system components. If there is a failure under these conditions, it is the fault of the owner and the tuner. Quite frequently there are posts like "my mods our done" with RWHP and RWTorque quoted without A/F data. In some cases, there is A/F data and the A/F is too lean to be safe. In still other cases, there is no dyno testing at all so that available data, if any, may not be determined under load.

A few examples recently brought up can be seen in this thread http://forums.viperclub.org/showthread.php?t=605107

Spend a few hours with the search function and research the Paxton you'll find more....I like to do my home work.

An example of lower quality/poor quality control, that I can give you from my own personal experiance with this kit;

Paxton recomends installing the a larger disc in the FCU if the vehicle is modified, mine is modified so I took the FCU apart. There are a few components inside of this unit. There are two spring retainers that are stacked on top of each other and glued together. In my case they were glued off center. Imagine two nickles stacked on top of each other. Now imagine pushing one off to the side a bit so you can see a large portion of the nickle underneath . I'm certain these would have worked fine for a long time (couple years)but one day the glue would have let go due to off axis pressure. Then I would have had a spring retainer moving around inside the FCU. A number of problems could arise from this defect; flutuations in fuel pressure, possibly wearing a hole in the diaphram...etc.

Guys pulling 700 to 750 RWHP are not working the fuel pumps much harder than they would be worked in a stock car, the FCU is not being pushed much harder than it is with a stock car and the split second box is just running a different program.

Let me say it another way...by changing the tune you are not increasing the chances of loosing a split second box, fuel pump or FCU...these items are usually going to work as they are supposed to but sometime they fail.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

BTW the paxton fuel system has gone to 850 rwhp...

http://forums.viperclub.org/showthread.php?t=599122&highlight=paxton

If you were to say that fuel system is being overworked I would agree with you.

 

[Bobpantax]

Interesting post ILLSMOQ. Some observations. The negative event described in the post you mention was with respect to a Paxton on a Gen II. ( I previously read the post.) I think that it is widely recognized that, for some reason, the paxton kit on a Gen II had issues.

Second, the Paxton Gen III stock kit was developed, and is sold, to be installed in accordance with the instructions given as updated by Paxton from time to time through the experience of Paxton tuners/installers with extensive experience such as DC, Doug Levin and Woodhouse. I know that each of them thoroughly inspects all the parts in each kit that they install. Greater power means more boost which requires more fuel. I assume that Paxton built in a capacity buffer if installed based on their instructions. If their stock parameters are exceeded and a failure occurs, it would not be their fault. Are you aware of any failures which have occurred in a Gen III Viper with a stock Paxton installation done by someone experienced in doing such an installation?

I am not following you with respect to the spring retainers in the FCU. I took mine apart a few months ago just to see what was inside and how it was made. I did not see any glued together spring retainers. When did you get your kit? Perhaps there were changes made subsequent to your installation. I think that Paxton has upgraded the kit a number of times based on feedback from Doug, Dan, and Mark. For instance, the shape of the air intake was changed.

One last comment. The Gen III Paxton kit was the only kit ever pimped in the Viper Quarterly magazine. There was an article extolling its benfits. At the time, I thought it was very interesting that such an article was allowed to appear. It seemed to be a wink and a nod by the SRT powers that be since there wasn't any bold letter disclaimer in the article or the rest of the magazine. Neither the Gen II Paxton nor the Roe ever received such an implied endorsement. Also, the Gen III Paxton kit comes with a three year limited warranty if the system is installed in accordance with the standard installation instructions and propely maintained. So, the bottom line is that he or she that alters the stock installation assumes the risks associated with doing so.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

You are correct, in that instance it was a gen II...however the gen II and gen III both used the split second box....which was the item that failed in that event. There were other paxton parts failures mentioned in that thread but they don't seem to me your criteria so I guess they don't apply.

Let me just make it clear if I have not already done so. I think the Paxton system for the viper is a very well designed system. My postings to this thread where with the intent of educating others of the potential risks involved with adding a supercharger to their car....my point being that if you do not have an understanding of the risks involved with supercharging your engine and the things you need to be looking out for while you are enjoying the added power, you probably should not be doing it. I was also pointing out that the "piggy back" fuel management system is not on par with factory equipment and you should be monitoring your fuel system in one way or another periodically if not constantly. You hold the paxton system in high regard and rightfully so....it's an excellent system available at a great price......but if you think it is a "set it and forget it" type thing....well....we'll be here to help you trouble shoot when you need it.

Bottom of page 9-1 in your installation manual, you will see the spring retainers I speak of. It is in this section of the manual that they tell you to change the FCU disk if the vehicle is modified.

Interesting post ILLSMOQ. Some observations. The negative event described in the post you mention was with respect to a Paxton on a Gen II. ( I previously read the post.) I think that it is widely recognized that, for some reason, the paxton kit on a Gen II had issues.

Second, the Paxton Gen III stock kit was developed, and is sold, to be installed in accordance with the instructions given as updated by Paxton from time to time through the experience of Paxton tuners/installers with extensive experience such as DC, Doug Levin and Woodhouse. I know that each of them thoroughly inspects all the parts in each kit that they install. Greater power means more boost which requires more fuel. I assume that Paxton built in a capacity buffer if installed based on their instructions. If their stock parameters are exceeded and a failure occurs, it would not be their fault. Are you aware of any failures which have occurred in a Gen III Viper with a stock Paxton installation done by someone experienced in doing such an installation?

I am not following you with respect to the spring retainers in the FCU. I took mine apart a few months ago just to see what was inside and how it was made. I did not see any glued together spring retainers. When did you get your kit? Perhaps there were changes made subsequent to your installation. I think that Paxton has upgraded the kit a number of times based on feedback from Doug, Dan, and Mark. For instance, the shape of the air intake was changed.

One last comment. The Gen III Paxton kit was the only kit ever pimped in the Viper Quarterly magazine. There was an article extolling its benfits. At the time, I thought it was very interesting that such an article was allowed to appear. It seemed to be a wink and a nod by the SRT powers that be since there wasn't any bold letter disclaimer in the article or the rest of the magazine. Neither the Gen II Paxton nor the Roe ever received such an implied endorsement. Also, the Gen III Paxton kit comes with a three year limited warranty if the system is installed in accordance with the standard installation instructions and propely maintained. So, the bottom line is that he or she that alters the stock installation assumes the risks associated with doing so.

 

[Bobpantax]

Thanks for the reply. I see the spring retainers in Fig. 9-a. I agree with you that puting one on top of the other seems a bit crude. I wonder why Paxton didn't use a spring retainer with a taller base. Puting them together like that requires more labor. It must have been a design screw up that was allowed to continue. However, based on the pressure applied when the six screws are tightened at the top, I doubt that there is much probability of a horizontal shear movement between the stacked retainers.

I agree with your observation: "my point being that if you do not have an understanding of the risks involved with supercharging your engine and the things you need to be looking out for while you are enjoying the added power, you probably should not be doing it". I would expand it to say: Whether its OEM equipment or aftermarket. A "set it and forget it" attitude will buy you a problem. Operating a high performance vehicle requires constant vigilance. A person should not drive a high performance vehicle unless he or she has a basic understanding of the mechanicals and maintenance requirements of the vehicle and respects and adheres to same. I have followed this advice since I first started driving high performance automobiles in 1964 and it has saved me from many an embarrassing moment. Have a safe one and thanks for the discussion.