01 GTS Copper in oil and clatter.

Indiana

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My car is making a clatter noise coming from the top right side of the motor. We pulled the oil pan and see nothing. Pulled the Valve cover and also see nothing. I did find that I have small copper flakes in my oil pan. Before I shut the car down it had full oil pressure and good oil temp. I pulled all the plug wires and turned the car over and hear nothing and all is rotating as it should. I filled it back up with plan old 10/30 and a new filter just to clean it out and it started just fine but it had the loud clatter noise so I shut it down.

Ideas?

Thanks
 

TAXIMAN1

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There is no easy fix to what you describe I'm afraid.. At the very least you need to pull the heads, at this point. And most likely take the motor down for a rebuild.. There is no "quick fix" to something described as a "loud clatter noise" coming from the motor. How long have you had the car for? Miles?
 

bluesrt

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***** my friend,sorry to hear that though,do not-and i say again!do not let a monkey cheap sell u a monkey job,but from a respectable person only that has a good viper reputation..
 
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Indiana

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Could it be a valve guide? I havent pulled the head yet but it could easly be a bearing.


The motor is stock with 30k. I have had it for a short time...
 

bluesrt

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if it was a valveguide that dropped,u would probably have a mis-a rod bearing will sound like its right at the top of the valvecover,and every where else too
 

bluesrt

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weather u have head damage or lower end,if u got chips in the pan,its done with all over..
 

bluesrt

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u can still have good oil pressure if u have rod bearings *****,main bearings not so good most of the time
 

bluesrt

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the crank will have grooves in it,u can band-aid it by pulling the motor and polishing the crank and install new bearings,but if u just put in new bearing on a old crank,it will knock them out in 15 minutes or better.
 

99 R/T 10

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If thats it I cant just clean the motor out and replace the rod bearings?


Most won't agree with me, but that is what I would do. It's pretty easy to pull the motor, completely go thru it, find the culprit and replace it with good bearings. Make sure to clean out everything possible before re-installing.

If you do it yourself, it can be done inside a weekend and cost less than $800-$1000. Other option is a complete re-build at a cost of $5000 or more.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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If it's a rod bearing you can pull injector wires off one at a time and if you find one that makes the noise less, you've found the cylinder.

I'm not sure, but rod and mains don't have a gold colored layer, do they?

Again, don't know, but does the small end of the con rod have a pressed in bushing?
 

mdurbahn

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Most won't agree with me, but that is what I would do. It's pretty easy to pull the motor, completely go thru it, find the culprit and replace it with good bearings. Make sure to clean out everything possible before re-installing.

If you do it yourself, it can be done inside a weekend and cost less than $800-$1000. Other option is a complete re-build at a cost of $5000 or more.

I like this idea..
 

Fast Viper Dan

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If its a rod bearing it will knock each revolution. If its a valve it will tap every other rotation of the crank. See if Napa has a mechanics stethoscope. Try to locate the problem before tearing into the engine.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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If its a rod bearing it will knock each revolution. If its a valve it will tap every other rotation of the crank. See if Napa has a mechanics stethoscope. Try to locate the problem before tearing into the engine.

Dig out that old timing light to help see if it's every or every other revolution.
 

AZTVR

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How good of an idea is it to keep running the engine in order to troubleshoot it ?

It appears from many of his posts that bluesrt speaks from much experience with engines, although his "accent" is often very hard to understand. As far as his recommendation to replace the main bearings and polish the crank, even if they were not the cause, could one just remove some main bearing caps and look at the crank and bearings to see if the flakes got through the oiling sytem and filter? (Or is it a given that they would be in the system before ever getting to the filter.) Is it OK to remove one cap at a time with the others still "loaded?"
 

EllowViper

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AZTVR has the right idea. It IS possible to replace all rod and main bearings WITHOUT dropping the crank or pulling the engine. The service manual actually has a procedure for doing just that. Having just done an In Car piston swap, checking the rods and mains is very easy to do...but bearings should not go bad at 30 some K miles so I would think there is probably a mechanical issue involved. The pistons are a press/interference fit (no bronze bushings). The actual bearing material my have bronze or a similar alloy under the grey layer. They are a soft metal alloy. If you are into that, the bearing is pretty much shot and to get visible particles in the filtered oil is a serious failure. But again, that just doesn't happen to a 30K motor. Also seeing as this vehicle has only been owned a short time, I wonder what the history behind it is. Before I pulled any heads, I'd drop the pan and diagnose from the bottom-up (pull the valve covers too since that is pretty easy and you can view the valvetrain action with a remote starter). When I pulled the pistons/rods on my 32K 01 GTS that had been running a ROE blower for 15K miles, the rod bearings were pretty worn IMO. Not into the bronze underlayment, but definatley had experienced some punishment (or course I had some detonation problems leading to a piston failure....it all goes hand in hand). I have had a few 100K motors with better looking rod bearings. Whatever approach you take, be logical, take notes, and eliminate potential causes one by one. Don't try and cover too many variables at the same time. And finally, don't be shy about digging into this motor. Its is really a simple design.
 

mdurbahn

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Aaron, did you keep the old filter? You should cut it in half and see how much metal is inside of it for s&g's
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Just a comment that I have no experience with (thank goodness) but if you can see some wear material with your eyeball, it probably shouldn't have gotten through the oil filter. Oil pump yes, filter no. So whatever is wearing, it is raining down into the pan. I think...
 
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Indiana

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The filter seemed to pick up all that got past the screen at the bottom of the pan.
 

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