2006 Bucking/Surging Paxton

[dans69ss]

Yes, I did do a search and came across a variety of similar posts and possible solutions. I have an 06 with a Paxton supercharger, VEC 3 and DCM box. The car seems to buck/surge upon decelaration, usually around 2500 rpm. Is this somewhat normal with my setup? I have 1600 miles on the car. Any insight and help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Fast Too]

I have an 06 Supercharged car that likes to buck too. I found either clutching in if at low RPM or shifting up if you have the skip shift eliminated stops it. Try not to drop below 1,250 rpm if you do the latter which is to ******* the engine I think. Do you have stock gears?

 

[Kenneth Krieger]

Should NOT be bucking and surging.....there is definitely a tuning problem.

 

[03gobluecobra]

I've had bucking problems in previous cars due to improperly gapped plugs (or maybe just plugs that failed). That could be an easy check, but I'd also have your tune looked at.

 

[dans69ss]

Yes, stock gears. Car was tuned at American Racing Technoligies (A.R.T.) in Texas be previous owner. Drives fine on the higway but it's in town cruising that it starts to buck.

 

[Fast Too]

My tune is from A.R.T also, hmmmmmmmm scratching my chin since no one else seems to experience bucking like we are. I am in the middle of putting in a wide band o2 to check my A/F under regular street conditions.

 

[Bobpantax]

Why do you have the VEC and the DCM box? Does your engine have more mods than the supercharger? If not, the split second unit that comes with the kit is tried and true. What is a DCM box? Do you mean a DLM box, a DC flashed OEM computer, or something else? Please explain.

 

[dans69ss]

Sorry, DC flashed OEM computer. No engine mods. I have read several posts on this website which have stated that the bucking is somewhat common in the '06 SRT10's. I noticed that the bucking starts when I decrease the pressure on the gas pedal (even slighlty) when I'm cruising in 2nd or 3rd gear. Runs like a champ on the highway.

I'm new to Vipers as this is obvious with my posts My first car was an '01 GTS which I had for about 6 months before I upgraded to the supercharged '06.

 

[Bobpantax]

Sorry, DC flashed OEM computer. No engine mods. I have read several posts on this website which have stated that the bucking is somewhat common in the '06 SRT10's. I noticed that the bucking starts when I decrease the pressure on the gas pedal (even slighlty) when I'm cruising in 2nd or 3rd gear. Runs like a champ on the highway. I'm new to Vipers as this is obvious with my posts My first car was an '01 GTS which I had for about 6 months before I upgraded to the supercharged '06.

Thanks for the clarification. Since you have no engine mods, there was no need for the Vec. The split second that comes with the kit would have been just fine. The DC flash provides a bit more power at certain points on the curve and can decrease decel popping. It does not increase max HP or torque. It also requires colder plugs and a different thermostat. I now have 9900 miles on my supercharged Woodhouse Performance Edition 2006 SRTC. I do not have, and have never had, the bucking problem that you are referring to in your post. Of course, in any manual tranny car if you go too slow for the gear you are in you will get bucking. But that does not appear to be your problem. You might want to give Mark Jorgenson a call at Woodhouse. Just click on the Woodhouse ad at the top of the page for contact data.

 

[dans69ss]

Thank you for the information and I will follow up with Mark.

 

[Fast Too]

Thanks for the clarification. Since you have no engine mods, there was no need for the Vec. The split second that comes with the kit would have been just fine. The DC flash provides a bit more power at certain points on the curve and can decrease decel popping. It does not increase max HP or torque. It also requires colder plugs and a different thermostat. I now have 9900 miles on my supercharged Woodhouse Performance Edition 2006 SRTC. I do not have, and have never had, the bucking problem that you are referring to in your post. Of course, in any manual tranny car if you go too slow for the gear you are in you will get bucking. But that does not appear to be your problem. You might want to give Mark Jorgenson a call at Woodhouse. Just click on the Woodhouse ad at the top of the page for contact data.

All true, but the VEC does have advantages over the S/S Box. With a VEC one can change the tune at whim in a matter of seconds by inserting a card. A very good feature if you live where climate changes are drastic. Don't know if you can do that with an S/S box. Also the VEC is good to control a custom fuel system. For example placing an extra in-tank fuel pump and eliminating the two Paxton supplied pumps. The VEC also has logging capabilities, and results can be sent to a tuner for tweaking of the car's tune, does the S/S Box have that capability? If engine mods are desired later the VEC is already in place

 

[Simms]

Since A.R.T. tuned your car, did you call and talk to David Weaver about it? They are very knowledgeable. Stop over at ART if you can and take David for a ride and show him what you are talking about. If they built the car, it may be a simple fix or adjustment for them.

 

[Bobpantax]

The Vec may have some advantage for certain purposes but he has no engine mods and a stock kit. He did not need the VEC. The split second unit ( timing control unit ) that came with the kit, and which is part of the price of the kit, was sufficient for his needs. This means he paid for something that he did not need now that he could have purchased later if he needed it. To my knowledge, you can hook a laptop up with the split second unit. I have seen Doug Levin do it more than once with excellent results. I also do not know how well the VEC works with a DC flashed unit. I'll defer to Dan Cragin to chime in on whether these two approaches are completely compatible. I know that Dan's flash for the stock kit works well. As long as we are on the subject, can someone jump in and specifically state the difference in internal components bewteen the VEC and the split second unit. You need not mention the card reader since that is self evident. In other words, what additional electronic components does the VEC have in it? I don't recall ever reading an explanation of the real difference.

 

[Fast Too]

The Vec may have some advantage for certain purposes but he has no engine mods and a stock kit. He did not need the VEC. The split second unit ( timing control unit ) that came with the kit, and which is part of the price of the kit, was sufficient for his needs. This means he paid for something that he did not need now that he could have purchased later if he needed it. To my knowledge, you can hook a laptop up with the split second unit. I have seen Doug Levin do it more than once with excellent results. I also do not know how well the VEC works with a DC flashed unit. I'll defer to Dan Cragin to chime in on whether these two approaches are completely compatible. I know that Dan's flash for the stock kit works well. As long as we are on the subject, can someone jump in and specifically state the difference in internal components bewteen the VEC and the split second unit. You need not mention the card reader since that is self evident. In other words, what additional electronic components does the VEC have in it? I don't recall ever reading an explanation of the real difference.

I think when he purchased the car the VEC was already installed. I however did purchase the VEC because of wanting the custom fuel system when I bought my Paxton and sold the S/S box and two fuel pumps. Nothing really lost there, just improvement IMO. As far as internal differences between the VEC and S/S, I know one thing that can be done programming wise with the VEC is retarding as well as advancing the timing whereas the S/S can only only advance. I may have that backward, but the S/S only goes one direction and the VEC can do both. Anyway I'm sure Sean Roe will chime in if he reads this thread and will enlighten us all.

 

[Hiss]

I have the DLM SC with the light weight fly wheel and have just a small amount of surging or bucking.

 

[dans69ss]

I have the DLM SC with the light weight fly wheel and have just a small amount of surging or bucking.

This is what I was afraid of b/c my car could be acting normal and I just need to familiarize myself with the car, before I start throwing more money at it

I did speak to Davear A.R.T. and said that the bucking was normal. This is experienced during cruising speeds in 2nd or 3rd gear, when I let off the gas pedal.

 

[MikeR]

This is what I was afraid of b/c my car could be acting normal and I just need to familiarize myself with the car, before I start throwing more money at it

I did speak to Davear A.R.T. and said that the bucking was normal. This is experienced during cruising speeds in 2nd or 3rd gear, when I let off the gas pedal.

Mine isnt supercharged yet, just bascis bolt ons, 500 rwhp. Dc tune, runs great,smoothe etc. But after I added headers and a Xmetal throttle body, I started notcing the same bucking, only 2nd gear, around 2400 rpms if Im going thru town and light throttle or even let off gas I get the bucking. I havent really worried much as the car still feels strong.

 

[Bobpantax]

This is what I was afraid of b/c my car could be acting normal and I just need to familiarize myself with the car, before I start throwing more money at it I did speak to Davear A.R.T. and said that the bucking was normal. This is experienced during cruising speeds in 2nd or 3rd gear, when I let off the gas pedal.

What did A.R.T. state was the cause of the bucking? Whether it is normal or not for the mods you have, they should be able to tell you what specifically is causing the bucking behavior. Once you know, then you will at least have the information upon which to make an informed choice as to whether you wish to change anything to eliminate the bucking. If they do not know what is causing the bucking then I would still call Mike J or Dan Cragin or Doug Levin to get a second opinion. They will not charge you for the telephone call. Was the possibility of bucking explained before the mods were done?

 

[dans69ss]

Not sure if the car ever bucked because I'm the second owner. Tarded my '01 GTS to Ringgold Dodge for this car.

 

[dans69ss]

Another mention is the "cracling/popping" noise from the exhaust upon deccelaration

 

[Bolt]

I run a Paxton and this may sound to simple but this is an easy thing to check. I also had the surging/bucking problem. Here is what I would like you to do. Put your battery on a battery charger for 24 hours. Make sure the battery has the maximum power possible. Now take the car for a ride and see if the surging is still there. If the surging is gone it may eventually come back. Let us know if this helps. This will help us diagnose the problem. Depending on your results we can go in different directions. While doing this test do not run any accessories or air conditioning. Usually when these systems are installed they are installed by a professional and there is no problem just after the installation and tuning. I start looking at normal things which deteriorate. Like low battery power. This will give any Viper surging and backfiring. No the alternator will not keep up like most vehicles. Please let us know what the problem turns out to be. Till you find out the problem do not jump on the throttle. Just drive it normally. There may be a problem with a fuel pump relay for the Paxton SC.

The bucking is not normal!

 

[Bobpantax]

Popping on decel is normal. However, the DC flash can lesson it a bit if you request Dan to do that in the flash. Many of us, including me, like the popping on decel. I think of it as the car saying: " I'm mean and I'm on my way toward you." LOL

 

[dans69ss]

Funny you should mention the battery because it was low and I put a slow charge on it. It had a full charge when I drove it Sunday and I still noticed the slight bucking. The car has only 1,600 miles on it and the previous owner did upgrade the fuel pump. The car was listed here for sale and if you do a search under JDMONEY, you'll see the car and the mods. Here's the old ad...

ViperClub Classifieds - 2006 Paxton Supercharged Copper Viper - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds

 

[Bobpantax]

Hi Dan. I read the ad. It says the car dynoed at just over 700 RWHP "with a conservative tune". The stock Paxton kit on a Gen III dynoes at 640 to 660 RWHP with a conservative tune. To get 700 RWHP the tune has to be a bit less conservative assuming the 700 RWHP is accurate. Did you give Mark or Dan or Doug a call yet?

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

In our experience if the Vec is not "entirely tuned" correctly, meaning not just for power then you end up with drivability issues along the way as you are describing. There are tip in enrichment tables all over the place and the Vec can not always recreate the factory smoothness. Remember the manufacturers spend months doing drivability tuning on the car and you cannot ever expect to "plug in a card" and get the great results everyone wants in the end.

I am biased on this because I am a dealer first and when a new car with a Paxton is delivered I know my customer wants a car that drives as good as it does from the factory, just with a couple hundred extra horses! I'm not knocking any of my tuner Friends but if you want it all there are ALWAYS compromises down the line.

Respectfully,

Mark

 

[plumcrazy]

ya might wanna look up joseph dell. he has a lot of experience with a paxton car and a vec unit. maybe he can help you out on this.

 

[dans69ss]

The dyno sheets show close to 700HP RWHP.

Mark - point well taken. Been busy at work (Accountant) but will definately call one of the mentioned experts (if not all) when I get a chance.

 

[Bobpantax]

Mark is one of the experts. "Is our return ready yet?" LOL Happy tax season.

 

[dans69ss]

Talk about stress....I'm really not a tax accountant and I handle payroll, financial reports, etc... I really would like to get the "bucking" fixed b/c it's somewhat irritating. Maybe it's the driver

 

[dans69ss]

What about the TB's being out of sync?