After reading the latest Viper Magazine.....

[black mamba1]

How many of you are now convinced you MUST have the 08?

I certainly am. I absolutely must have this car. The technology in the Venom controller alone makes the 03-06 seem like carburetored technology in comparison! While very similar looking overall except the new hood, the 08 seems light-years more advanced than the Gen 3's!

I also believe that if you need more power, once the geniuses like Sean Roe and Dan Cragin figure out the programming, you can change the heads on the car and get close to 700 rwhp naturally aspirated. That kind of power will give you 0-60 in the low 3's and 1/4 mile times in the low 10's w/ stock 3:07 gears and stock tires! Ya gotta friggin love it! You just gotta!

I will keep my 04 w/ it's beefed-up-by-Chuck-THE BEST- Tator new engine, TT that car for up to around 850 rwhp and to kick the crap out of anyone that picks a fight, and get the new 08 to drive for most other Viper occasions and to also kick the crap out of anyone that wants to test this new snake!

I simply gotta have that new 08!!

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

08 or 09

 

[InjectTheVenom]

While I would love to be able to drive one at some point but I think I'm gonna stick with the previous Vipers after reading about the drive by wire experience.. unless my opinion is gonna change after experience of my own.

 

[Vipermann]

While I would love to be able to drive one at some point but I think I'm gonna stick with the previous Vipers after reading about the drive by wire experience.. unless my opinion is gonna change after experience of my own.

???

Makes, uh, hmm, not much sense ... whether or not there is a fuel-saving, drive-by-wire delay, it really doesn't matter since all the reviews say that the car performs significantly better than the previous Gen3 (even with a delay). And if there is any delay, you can bet that will be one of the first tuner flash mods to become available -- and then the '08 will perform even mo betta.

 

[Coloviper]

Anyone with a new SRT8 vehicle (me included - 07 Jeep SRT8) knows for certain that the new controllers in those SRT8s are locked down tighter than a frog's ass; NOT very mod friendly in the slightest and I mean even in the slightest.

After reading the Venom controller article, there is no doubt that the new 08 is quite a ways ahead of the 03-06 cars and it should be, HOWEVER I would not count on a very mod-friendly car in the 08 and up. It will be NO different that the SRT8 controllers. Dodge does NOT share any of the SRT8 programming with anyone and even after all these years, the 6.1 SRT8s progrmaming is still a complete mystery and no one has it right yet, when it comes to mods.

The Venom controller is no different. I would not count on Dodge to let even one person in on it's true programming. The EPA is much larger and more powerful than our VCA. It's just not going to happen and the price we paid to have a new Viper, after the 06s.

Before everyone hangs out the ole 03-06 or even puts the ole 06 coupe out to pasture, they better re-read that article and all the ones that come out after it. Dodge saved the Viper with massive amounts of effort, programming, fixes, etc. but the car WILL only be really good in factory form or with approved Dodge upgrades and parts. No superchargers, no turbos, no internal mods, etc. and all the other thinks the modders want to do.

Everyone loves the Viper for the simplicity, but the new 08 is extremely complex behind it's non-cruise control, non traction, non stability control skin. The simplistic nature is fading and fading fast. It really is only a matter of time. These nanny control things are coming and there is nothing we can do about it and they will be mandated fast.

Again, not just because I own an 06 coupe, but there is still something very simplistic about the 03-06 SRT-10s that the 08 is lacking. 08 is an amazing car but it will be the car that started the end of the Viper, the Viper as we know it.

With the 08, someone just flipped over the hour glass. Not a horrible thing, as it keeps our Viper around for another couple of years, BUT the anything goes nature of all cars 92' to 06', goes away with the 08'.

Just MHO.

 

[black mamba1]

Hey, any of you technical gurus have any idea w/ the Gen 3 has more torque and hp at the lower rpm curve than the Gen 4? Also, it seems as if the Gen 4 Venom has greater restrictions on the motor since it is trying to stay w/in the Fed guidelines for emissions at all rpm's. Translation...there is A LOT more power in the Gen 4 motor to be unleashed...if you dont give a crap about the emissions, like 99% of us dont! Again, once the tekkies find a way to bypass all the restrictive crap... I think the Gen 4 will be even more of a monster.

 

[Alexarz]

How many of you are now convinced you MUST have the 08?

I certainly am. I absolutely must have this car. The technology in the Venom controller alone makes the 03-06 seem like carburetored technology in comparison! While very similar looking overall except the new hood, the 08 seems light-years more advanced than the Gen 3's!

I also believe that if you need more power, once the geniuses like Sean Roe and Dan Cragin figure out the programming, you can change the heads on the car and get close to 700 rwhp naturally aspirated. That kind of power will give you 0-60 in the low 3's and 1/4 mile times in the low 10's w/ stock 3:07 gears and stock tires! Ya gotta friggin love it! You just gotta!

I will keep my 04 w/ it's beefed-up-by-Chuck-THE BEST- Tator new engine, TT that car for up to around 850 rwhp and to kick the crap out of anyone that picks a fight, and get the new 08 to drive for most other Viper occasions and to also kick the crap out of anyone that wants to test this new snake!

I simply gotta have that new 08!!

With the frenzy you are currently in, I wish I owned a Dodge dealership near your house.

 

[black mamba1]

After reading the Venom controller article, there is no doubt that the new 08 is quite a ways ahead of the 03-06 cars and it should be, HOWEVER I would not count on a very mod-friendly car in the 08 and up. It will be NO different that the SRT8 controllers. Dodge does NOT share any of the SRT8 programming with anyone and even after all these years, the 6.1 SRT8s progrmaming is still a complete mystery and no one has it right yet, when it comes to mods.

The Venom controller is no different. I would not count on Dodge to let even one person in on it's true programming. The EPA is much larger and more powerful than our VCA. It's just not going to happen and the price we paid to have a new Viper, after the 06s.

Necessity is the mother of creativity. No offense, but I dont think there are as many brains dedicated to deciphering SRT-8 software as there will be for unlocking the Venom codes. Those committed to making a Viper run 10 second 1/4 mile times dwarf those interested in having a Jeep Cherokee do the same....
Now, it is a fact of life that with millions more cars pouring on to our streets the govt is going to increasingly restrict all vehicles. BUT, American ingenuity always prevails..always. If we can make robots crawl around on Mars for years, if we can make Bombers the size of a 777 airliner dispappear from radar, if we can make cell phones that do everything but cook your breakfast...we will definitely figure a way to undo or modify what the engineers at SRT have done...after all, SRT engineers are not the only smart people who love cars!

 

[black mamba1]

With the frenzy you are currently in, I wish I owned a Dodge dealership near your house.

Many Dodge owners, especially Viper owners are in a frenzy with the unleashing of the new 08. Notice how many Viper owners also own Dodge trucks and dodge passenger cars? I drive a Chevy Avalanche truck...I am headed to the Dodge dealership to look at the Dodge trucks right after I type this thread!
I drive a Bentley for business ocassions, but I am going to only use it for special events now. I was looking at the BMW 5 series for everday driving..but now I am looking at the Dodge Charger. So, yep, I guess you could call this a frenzy!

 

[Warfang]

???

Makes, uh, hmm, not much sense ... whether or not there is a fuel-saving, drive-by-wire delay, it really doesn't matter since all the reviews say that the car performs significantly better than the previous Gen3 (even with a delay). And if there is any delay, you can bet that will be one of the first tuner flash mods to become available -- and then the '08 will perform even mo betta.

It might perform better overall... but does it feel like a Viper? If you JUST wanted better performance, there are better cars to get. Someone mentioned a mod MB owners use to pick up on the lag, and maybe that'll be enough. Somehow I don't think anything by-wire will ever feel as natural as an actual mechanical cable... but only a test drive will determine for sure.

 

[Vipermann]

Anyone with a new SRT8 vehicle (me included - 07 Jeep SRT8) knows for certain that the new controllers in those SRT8s are locked down tighter than a frog's ass; NOT very mod friendly in the slightest and I mean even in the slightest.

After reading the Venom controller article, there is no doubt that the new 08 is quite a ways ahead of the 03-06 cars and it should be, HOWEVER I would not count on a very mod-friendly car in the 08 and up. It will be NO different that the SRT8 controllers. Dodge does NOT share any of the SRT8 programming with anyone and even after all these years, the 6.1 SRT8s progrmaming is still a complete mystery and no one has it right yet, when it comes to mods.

The Venom controller is no different. I would not count on Dodge to let even one person in on it's true programming. The EPA is much larger and more powerful than our VCA. It's just not going to happen and the price we paid to have a new Viper, after the 06s.

Before everyone hangs out the ole 03-06 or even puts the ole 06 coupe out to pasture, they better re-read that article and all the ones that come out after it. Dodge saved the Viper with massive amounts of effort, programming, fixes, etc. but the car WILL only be really good in factory form or with approved Dodge upgrades and parts. No superchargers, no turbos, no internal mods, etc. and all the other thinks the modders want to do.

Everyone loves the Viper for the simplicity, but the new 08 is extremely complex behind it's non-cruise control, non traction, non stability control skin. The simplistic nature is fading and fading fast. It really is only a matter of time. These nanny control things are coming and there is nothing we can do about it and they will be mandated fast.

Again, not just because I own an 06 coupe, but there is still something very simplistic about the 03-06 SRT-10s that the 08 is lacking. 08 is an amazing car but it will be the car that started the end of the Viper, the Viper as we know it.

With the 08, someone just flipped over the hour glass. Not a horrible thing, as it keeps our Viper around for another couple of years, BUT the anything goes nature of all cars 92' to 06', goes away with the 08'.

Just MHO.

The thing is, that despite this speculation, ALL, I mean all, of the reviews have said the '08 is awesome and every bit as nasty as any Viper before it. 600HP !!!!!!!!! So where is there a question?

It sounds a bit like some owners of earlier Vipers want to believe there are potential shortcomings with the newest Vipers in order to continue to feel great about their earlier Vipers.
There are two issues with that:
1) Each generation of earlier Vipers have had their shortcomings too
2) Nobody should need to draw specualtion about 'potential' issues with the new '08 in order to feel great about an older Viper -- they are/were all great.

I sold my '05 and ordered an '08 -- with absolutely NO second thoughts whatsoever.

We need to stick together. Just look at the crap that was published in the November Automobile magazine -- comparing a new stock '08 Viper to a Lingenfelter Z06, and they say 'buy the vette' and that the tuner Vette is pretty much what to expect from the next GM 'super vette' ... funny, I don't recall them comparing a tuner Viper to the new, stock Z06 when it first came out??

 

[96-RT10 Supercharged]

Anyone want to take bets on the time it takes to SC or TT the first 08's? I say within 6 months of the release date.

 

[Coloviper]

Hey, I am just speaking from experience here with the SRT8s. I and NO ONE has any experience with the VENOM controller yet. I do have experience with the shortcommings of the SRT8 controller and all I am saying is that I would not expect anyone to be breaking anything, anytime soon.

Comparing a MARS landing (with 10,000 engineers working on it and an infinite budget) with "breaking codes" of the Venom controller is about as bad as it gets. Sorry the Venom mod crowd does not have that budget or government backing to get around red tape.

I never said the 08 was not a much better vehicle in stock form. It is and should be. All I am saying is that based upon where ALL the new manufacturers are going with their controllers and locking them down, don't expect a mod friendly vehicle in the future. It is simply a dying breed.

I have no doubt that the tuners will have a TT set-up and a supercharger set-up in the new 08 in 6 months, but I am saying that the majority of people will not be happy with it, like we are experiencing with ALL the other SRT8 mod vehicles these days. They are having lots of problems getting around the heart of the contollers from Dodge because they will NOT share the information and are doing funny things in the controllers like limiting throttle to 75% WOT in the first two gears to meet EPA requirements. This is probably why the 08 shows lower numbers than the 06 in the lower RPMS.

I hope someone does crack the codes and get around this but it is going to take time. If 08 or 09 are the last years of the Viper, then it may never happen. Might not be enough demand.

That's all I am saying.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

It might perform better overall... but does it feel like a Viper? If you JUST wanted better performance, there are better cars to get. Someone mentioned a mod MB owners use to pick up on the lag, and maybe that'll be enough. Somehow I don't think anything by-wire will ever feel as natural as an actual mechanical cable... but only a test drive will determine for sure.

Exactly what I mean.. I drove my dad's car (Volvo V40, I know I know ) and I felt NO communication with the road at all, just a rubber goo band that didn't let me know anything (and it's supposed to have the sports suspension of the higher powered Sports Edition). Now my Opel Calibra which was built in 1991 has excellent road-feel coming through the steeringwheel, I can read and write with that car so to speak.
Speaking from an enthusiast's standpoint while making due with what I have.

 

[black mamba1]

Anyone want to take bets on the time it takes to SC or TT the first 08's? I say within 6 months of the release date.

hmmm, I think this may be a bit optomistic...but if the compression ratios are successfully lowered, then yes, we will see forced induction soon.

 

[Finally got it !]

I keep reading that the 08 will not be mod friendly. Are we talking over the top mods like S/C and TT? If so I would agree. But I know the big dogs will break the codes. As far as bolt on's Dodge has already shown a 75 Hp increase with there products!!!!!

 

[Warfang]

I keep reading that the 08 will not be mod friendly. Are we talking over the top mods like S/C and TT? If so I would agree. But I know the big dogs will break the codes. As far as bolt on's Dodge has already shown a 75 Hp increase with there products!!!!!

but.... is it street/smog legal?

 

[Finally got it !]

but.... is it street/smog legal?

Most aftermarket stuff is not. Having said that I think Dodge stated that it was not smog legal...

 

[Vipermann]

Exactly what I mean.. I drove my dad's car (Volvo V40, I know I know ) and I felt NO communication with the road at all, just a rubber goo band that didn't let me know anything (and it's supposed to have the sports suspension of the higher powered Sports Edition). Now my Opel Calibra which was built in 1991 has excellent road-feel coming through the steeringwheel, I can read and write with that car so to speak.
Speaking from an enthusiast's standpoint while making due with what I have.

Volvo? It's a Viper. Same as the Gen3 but a higher reving engine with more HP, better clutch, stronger gear box and better rear diff ... any comparison to a Volvo only holds if you already thought the Gen3 drove like a Volvo ...

 

[09 Venom]

Volvo? It's a Viper. Same as the Gen3 but a higher reving engine with more HP, better clutch, stronger gear box and better rear diff ... any comparison to a Volvo only holds if you already thought the Gen3 drove like a Volvo ...

Just curious. How many members here actually take their Vipers to the track. It is hard enough to put down 510HP without wheel spin or boggin' and get that great 60' time. I have a few minor mods and figure I am putting out close to 540-550HP. Don't know if 50HP and no esthetic changes (besides hood) are enough to make me upgrade.
I will need to test drive to make a decision.

 

[black mamba1]

Just curious. How many members here actually take their Vipers to the track. It is hard enough to put down 510HP without wheel spin or boggin' and get that great 60' time. I have a few minor mods and figure I am putting out close to 540-550HP. Don't know if 50HP and no esthetic changes (besides hood) are enough to make me upgrade.
I will need to test drive to make a decision.

Lets be honest here. I track my car, and when I was at Limerock this summer there were maybe 20? Vipers there...so most Viper owners dont track their cars. MOST sports car owners dont track their $100,000 cars....for obvious reasons.
So what we are really mostly talking about here are street fights. If you are having a hard time launching your Viper you simply need more practice. The wheel spin is eventually overcome by the acceleration. The 08 has much more to offer than talking about 50 hp and a new hood, read the articles, the 08 is a technological piece of art, and has major drivetrain improvements. There is much more to owning an exotic sports car, which the Viper definitely is, than 50 hp...if you dont understand that I cannot explain it to you. Its just like the Harley Davidson argument, yes the rice burners are faster....but...

But you do have a Viper, as do I. My reason for buying a new 08 has nothing to do w/ price or how much hp it can make, hell we always have Strykers and Paxtons and Heffner TT packages to deal w/ more hp issues.

Owning the new 08 Viper is like owning a rare piece of art. It only makes sense to those who actually understand and love American cars....and those that love art.

 

[SnakeEye]

Re: After reading the latest Viper Magazine.....

... Wait a minute here, the additional factory 90hp is great but the drive-by-wire implentation causes pause not to mention the new ECM which will surely pose some added pain and delays for those that want more hp and tq out of the box. Aside from just the need for more power, the short mod list hasn't gone away either. Items such as Motons, Quaife, gears, and aluminum flywheel will still be in great demand and unfortunatley no amount of sane money today will put a 750hp+ '08 Viper in your garage; this is good enough motivation imo to keep an already garaged '03 - '06 and mod it to your desired level. Adding an '08 Viper as stablemate, now that's another story all together. Long live the Viper! ...

 

[black mamba1]

Nascars race cars have less hp than many Vipers, yet are faster in many arenas due to simply being nothing but a cage w/ an engine. Higher hp numbers are not the FINAL SOLUTION. The 08 Vipers are about balance, form, function, and speed. Anyone w/ an unlimited budget can make a TT Viper capable of 1500 hp. But, it is undrivable, unreliable, and not practical.
My point is that you cannot approach owning a new Viper or any sports car from an accountants point of view, hell if that is your approach just get a used Vette and twin turbo charge the thing. Your r.o.i. will be higher if your remove the intangibles.

People dont buy Vipers b/c they make sense. We buy them b/c we want them. Period.

 

[johnk]

I also believe that if you need more power, once the geniuses like Sean Roe and Dan Cragin figure out the programming, you can change the heads on the car and get close to 700 rwhp naturally aspirated. That kind of power will give you 0-60 in the low 3's and 1/4 mile times in the low 10's w/ stock 3:07 gears and stock tires!

Low 3s 0-60 and low 10 second 1/4 mile times on 700rwhp and stock tires?

 

[09 Venom]

. If you are having a hard time launching your Viper you simply need more practice. The wheel spin is eventually overcome by the acceleration. The 08 has much more to offer than talking about 50 hp and a new hood, read the articles, the 08 is a technological piece of art.

I just made a general statement that putting down 500HP+ is challenging in any car, never said I had a hard time doing it in my Viper. Those run-flats don't help much though. And I love my Viper as much as anyone on this forum but calling it a technological piece of art? Sure I read all the articles. Maybe compared to previous Vipers but not other exotics. I would be driving the F430 or 997TT or even the C6 Z06 if I wanted
'technological features.' I love the fact the my '05 had a rough idle, no traction, no cruise, load exhaust. That is what attracted me to the car in the first place..its' rawness so to speak.
Never said I wouldn't get an '08, just would like to test drive it first.

 

[black mamba1]

I just made a general statement that putting down 500HP+ is challenging in any car, never said I had a hard time doing it in my Viper. Those run-flats don't help much though. And I love my Viper as much as anyone on this forum but calling it a technological piece of art? Sure I read all the articles. Maybe compared to previous Vipers but not other exotics. I would be driving the F430 or 997TT or even the C6 Z06 if I wanted
'technological features.' I love the fact the my '05 had a rough idle, no traction, no cruise, load exhaust. That is what attracted me to the car in the first place..its' rawness so to speak.
Never said I wouldn't get an '08, just would like to test drive it first.

Many if not most Gen 3 owners have dumped the run craps for better tires. Run craps are 2001-2002 tire technology, we have progressed since then. I have the PS-2's and the car grips much better.

First beauty and "art" is really in the eye of the beholder, but just to address your point...
Yes, the F430 is an exotic piece of art, however many find Porsches boring to look at (same basic lines for 25 plus years) and Vettes are about as plentiful as taxi's in NY, thereby diminishing their "exotic-ness". Now personally, I like all those cars, but I like the Viper more, it is by far the most aggressive design and has the more aggressive roar and "personality" than all the cars mentioned...but it is still an engineering marvel, and it IS STILL a piece of art. For once, even the magazines got it right in describing the superb engineering and ingenuity in the 08 Viper. And remember, you get this 600 hp sub 12 sec 1/4 mile sports car for under 90k. Lets see Ferrari and Porsche accomplish that.

 

[black mamba1]

Low 3s 0-60 and low 10 second 1/4 mile times on 700rwhp and stock tires?

Motor Trend got 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 1/4 mile times of 10.76 sec in a 2003 Viper w/ run craps and a 587 rwhp n/a Viper. The better tranny and higher revs of the 08 and better tires, yes, I think low to mid 3's for 0-60 and low 10's are obtainable for a 700 rwhp 08.

 

[Smog Dog]

Motor Trend got 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 1/4 mile times of 10.76 sec in a 2003 Viper w/ run craps and a 587 rwhp n/a Viper. The better tranny and higher revs of the 08 and better tires, yes, I think low to mid 3's for 0-60 and low 10's are obtainable for a 700 rwhp 08.

I think the time was more like 11.76. Still excellent and hard for the average driver to achieve.

 

[09 Venom]

Many if not most Gen 3 owners have dumped the run craps for better tires. Run craps are 2001-2002 tire technology, we have progressed since then. I have the PS-2's and the car grips much better.

First beauty and "art" is really in the eye of the beholder, but just to address your point...
Yes, the F430 is an exotic piece of art, however many find Porsches boring to look at (same basic lines for 25 plus years) and Vettes are about as plentiful as taxi's in NY, thereby diminishing their "exotic-ness". Now personally, I like all those cars, but I like the Viper more, it is by far the most aggressive design and has the more aggressive roar and "personality" than all the cars mentioned...but it is still an engineering marvel, and it IS STILL a piece of art. For once, even the magazines got it right in describing the superb engineering and ingenuity in the 08 Viper. And remember, you get this 600 hp sub 12 sec 1/4 mile sports car for under 90k. Lets see Ferrari and Porsche accomplish that.

I agree. The Porsche certainly needs a cosmetic facelift. Vette's are
plentiful (though to a lesser degree with the Z06). And no one could really argue re: the Vipers aggressiveness. That's why I drive the 'SNAKE' and not those other auto's. I did drive a Z06 for 3 years and enjoyed it. Was just time to move on.

 

[johnk]

Motor Trend got 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 1/4 mile times of 10.76 sec in a 2003 Viper w/ run craps and a 587 rwhp n/a Viper. The better tranny and higher revs of the 08 and better tires, yes, I think low to mid 3's for 0-60 and low 10's are obtainable for a 700 rwhp 08.

Then MT needs to put down the crack pipe...