Brace for the magazine bs ...

Vipermann

Viper Owner
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
Posts
1,222
Reaction score
2
Location
Texas
I just spoke with a friend who received the October issue of one of the mags in the mail, and it has a head-to-head with the Viper vs. the Z06 ... and guess what ...

The Viper beats the Z06 on the track, but the Z06 is given the overall nod based upon other 'subjective' points ... :bs2:

If the Viper beats the Z06 in performance, it KILLs the Z06 in subjective measures -- style, exclusivity, interior, etc.

Can you say "Chevy/GM brown nose?" :moon:
 

Pythonpete

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Posts
1,577
Reaction score
0
Location
NY, Westchester
I think I'm going to be sick. What subjective points could the Vette ever beat the Viper in?

Its a Corvette factor: Corvette wins
The invisible next to a Viper factor: Corvette wins
I can park it anywhere because no one cars: Corvette wins

OK, I can see how it happens. :crazy2:
 
OP
OP
Vipermann

Vipermann

Viper Owner
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
Posts
1,222
Reaction score
2
Location
Texas
I don't have a copy of the magazine, and my friend said it came in the mail yesterday but didn't have it with him, so he couldn't remember which one it was (he thought it might have been R&T) ... it was the October issue, so definitely it was about the '08 Viper
 

AFL in NJ

Enthusiast
Joined
May 13, 2006
Posts
2,411
Reaction score
0
Location
Rancho Cordova, CA
There will be lots of magazines rag on the '08 Viper because they can't get good numbers out of it.....because they can't drive. Cars like the Vette with "active handling", etc will always get the nod because it makes average or even poor drivers look good.

If however they get a driver who actually has some proven skills, there should be some awesome numbers put up. I always recalculate almost every comparison and go with what the deductive numbers say.....subjective values are always skewed by someone's ignorance.

This past month Steve Millen drove a Hennesey 1000 past a Bugatti Veyron in a 0-200 test.....and the Viper was head and shoulders above the other cars in that scenario.

Regards,
Aaron
 

mad0953

Enthusiast
Joined
May 20, 2006
Posts
2,486
Reaction score
0
Location
Southern Oregon
Aaron............I totally agree............if you know how to drive you can generally beat 'em all. No car is ever going to tell me what to do....it may fight me over control but in the end I will win.
 

KWIK96

Viper Owner
Joined
Aug 18, 2004
Posts
718
Reaction score
0
Location
LA and Oz
Thanks to Paxton and WCV I have put every ZO6 who has tried to bed.
I no longer buy any mags.
They are edited by Chevy's equivalent of Joseph Goebbels
 

AFL in NJ

Enthusiast
Joined
May 13, 2006
Posts
2,411
Reaction score
0
Location
Rancho Cordova, CA
I've always found the most biased magazine to be Motor Trend....don't know why. I still get Car & Driver and Road & Track, so I'll post more whenever something arrives.

Regards,
Aaron
 

adamlotus

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Posts
939
Reaction score
0
Location
los angeles
car n driver reports 0-60 3.5 sec top speed 202
1/4 mile 11.6 at 126
z06 did 0-60 3.7 top speed 198
1/4 mile 11.7 125 mph
 

valentine_viper

Viper Owner
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Posts
425
Reaction score
0
Location
Cherry Hill, NJ
R&T article lead in

-------------------------------------
1999GTS/2001ACR
New SVS short shifter for sale

This article claims the PS2s are a "special compound" taken from the "Pilot Cup" tire. They don't specifically say they're R-compound, but that seems to be what they mean. The Edmond's article aslo said the new tires are R-compound, but I chaulked that up as an error.

Does anyone know for sure if these are the same PS2s that have been available for a while now or are they actually a new R-compound PS2???
 

Alabaster Mamba

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Posts
555
Reaction score
0
Location
Corinth, TX
It was C&D and the test comparo was indeed 08 against 08. The Viper won every competitive event but the nod went to the Z06 due to the interior. Well their reasons were 1.) claustrophobic cabin 2.) leg-burning exhaust 3.) lack of refinement. And of course they had to say that the exhaust note on the Vette sounded better. I guess they had their head up their *ss when they were driving the Viper and that's why they couldn't hear it. But they did say that the Viper was sitting back on it's throne!! 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. It also said lap times were slower due to a damp track. Either way, the Viper wins where it counts!!!
 

ILTTG

Viper Owner
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Posts
40
Reaction score
0
Location
Las Cruces, NM
It was C&D and the test comparo was indeed 08 against 08. The Viper won every competitive event but the nod went to the Z06 due to the interior. Well their reasons were 1.) claustrophobic cabin 2.) leg-burning exhaust 3.) lack of refinement. And of course they had to say that the exhaust note on the Vette sounded better.

Bah, Car and Driver writers are the biggest Chevrolet fanboys I have ever seen. Even in their first SRT-10 viper article, they recommended the C5 z06 over the new Viper because it was a better "daily driver". People aren't buying Vipers to buy groceries or take road trips in (though it does those things just fine). The average test driver at C&D must be 60 years old, which incidentally is the same age as the average Corvette driver.

And how oafish do you have to be to burn your leg on the exhaust, anyway? Someone buy those guys some canes. Maybe they can lean on them on their way out of the car.
 

Y2K5SRT

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 1999
Posts
7,891
Reaction score
0
Location
Overland Park, KS
See, what you need to consider is that the magazines are for the masses by the masses. Do you honestly expect Ted Tester to jump out of the Kia Spectra and then subjectively compare the Z06 with the Viper based on what they were designed to do? Of course not! Ted is going to compare it to the hundreds of other cars he tests (and that millions buy) and the Viper is going to lose:

No optional power seats
No optional cruise control
No optional traction control
No automated climate control
No heads up display options
No plush seats
No digital read outs
No stability control
No soft ride
No cupholders (dang it Chuck, it's an ashtray!)

Why as far as Ted is concerned, it's practically a stripped down Yugo with a big ol' V10. What Ted (and the masses) want is a nice, safe, quiet, comfortable ride. Even if it is slower around the track, on a straightaway, or 0-60. Close to the Viper in performance but with all those creature comforts the masses enjoy? Obviously a clear winner - for the masses. Read the Edmunds article and notice it states that "almost 25,000 Vipers have rolled off the production line since 1992". Well kids, they build that many Corvettes in less than nine months!

So, do you badmouth a mass-market car that sells some 20X as many units each year - not to mention what is probably your largest advertiser - to heap praise on a niche vehicle that is bred for the track? Of course not: You take the high road and keep the masses happy and your advertisers smug.

The bottom line is that the Z06 is the better car for the masses. Hop from the Camry and feel more comfortable and safe in the Corvette. Even the Z06 owners admit to it on this thread:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1794413

Some quotes directly from those same Corvette owners:

"Z06 looks better IMHO. Viper is too brutish"

"I don't want the extra attention a Viper gets everywhere"

"Please tell me the new ones (Viper) come with traction control"

But a few automotive writers "get it", like this guy who I will quote again:

"The 2008 Dodge Viper makes you fear for your life every second. It's terrific."

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=122304/pageId=129185

So don't be dismayed if/when those magazines give the edge to a car with 95 less horsepower, worse braking, and less road-holding ability. These writers write for the masses and represent them accordingly: Would a Camry driver, driving both cars, be able to go faster 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile with traction control and 95 less horsepower? Considering the skill necessary to launch a Viper well - you betcha. Then throw in "daily driver" chores such as getting groceries and the Viper is going to lose. From Car & Driver's 12/05 test of the C6 Z06 vs. 2006 SRT10 Coupe (where the higher the number is the better):

Trunk space: Vette 5 (out of 10), Viper 1
Amenities: Vette 10 (out of 10), Viper 3
Price: Vette 20 (out of 20), Viper 15
Engine Flexibility(?!): Vette 5 (out of 5), Viper 4
Fuel Economy: Vette 5 (out of 5), Viper 4
Ride: Vette 9 (out of 10), Viper 7

Not exactly the criteria many of us used when shopping for a modern muscle car. But when shopping for a Camry...

:2tu:
 

ViperRay

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Posts
846
Reaction score
0
Location
Topeka, KS
I always skip the BS sections on interior, etc. I guess I thought everyone else here did too.
If the Viper beats the ZO6 in every performance category that's all I care about!

I was actually sweating the performance categories because, as stated above, most rag drivers don't know how to drive a car like the viper. So, if it comes out ahead with these guys testing it then I pumped!

The fact that it was close is no surprise. How much quicker can a (stock) car be when the times are already so fast? The air is pretty thin up there. It sounds like it was a sweep for the Viper in performance... I hope the other mags get the same.
 
OP
OP
Vipermann

Vipermann

Viper Owner
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
Posts
1,222
Reaction score
2
Location
Texas
Originally Posted by adamlotus
car n driver reports 0-60 3.5 sec top speed 202
1/4 mile 11.6 at 126
z06 did 0-60 3.7 top speed 198
1/4 mile 11.7 125 mph



Thats quite a small margin over the z06 :(

No, no no ... hold on ...

First, if you want an '08 Viper to really spank a Z06 in the 1/4mi, just equalize the rear gear ratios with some 3.33s or 3.55s (vs. the Vette's 3.42s) and consider it done. I'd bet the Viper would do 11.2-11.3 (maybe high 10s) with different rear gears and no other changes.

Second, on the road course it's not even close. The stock Viper ***** the doors off of the Z06.
 

DSG2003SVT

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Posts
59
Reaction score
0
Location
Tyler, TX
Not trying to veer too far off topic, but I just wanted to say that the green/black striped coupe used in R&T's test looks awesome. That's a great color combo!
 

plumcrazy

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 9, 2003
Posts
16,243
Reaction score
7
Location
ALL OVER
i like the idea that the vette guys think they're that close in performance....sshhhh, dont tell them anything different. let them find out for themselves...:)
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
153,215
Posts
1,682,042
Members
17,708
Latest member
xeng yang
Top