Conflict of interest, I am tired

[Sittingbull101]

I am tired of the obvious conflicts on interest on this board. Chrysler employees want you to buy Vipers, they cannot a buyer's interest at heart. Witness all those threads about the Conner plant going on, contrary to credible articles in the press, when we are obviously looking at the end of the Viper.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

I am tired of the obvious conflicts on interest on this board. Chrysler employees want you to buy Vipers, they cannot a buyer's interest at heart. Witness all those threads about the Conner plant going on, contrary to credible articles in the press, when we are obviously looking at the end of the Viper.

I am not quite sure what you are getting at, however I have yet to see a single Chrysler employee appear anywhere on the forums that is encouraging anybody to buy a Viper. Not one.

As for the end of the Viper, you are simply wrong - accept it. The articles in the press are mentioning a fact that was established by a UAW contract in October of 2007: CAAP would be closing at the end of the current Viper model's end of life cycle - and the car is certified through the end of 2010. The current articles even state that specifically: The plants listed will be closing at the end of 2010 and are not part of the Fiat merger/purchase. Everybody knows that the Viper platform is for sale and has at least four interested parties - that too has been widely reported in the press.

The bottom line is that the Viper is here to stay. Oh, maybe not at CAAP (BTW, there is nothing to say the new owners couldn't buy that as well), but there are way too many, and far more credible, parties that say it is anything but dead.

So we will chalk this post up to you being tired, because it certainly isn't correct.

 

[Steve-Indy]

While I'm a little confused by the wording of your post, I'll add my own comment.

My Wife and I bought another Viper early in 2009...BECAUSE we love the car !!!

If there is a future for "Viper", that would be GREAT for all of us!!! (and, maybe we'll get a chance to get another one).

If the Viper has no future, we'll be VERY sad...BUT, we will still enjoy, drive, maintain, and love the new Viper...along with the others!!!

The friendships made along the way are priceless...and will endure.

 

[George Farris]

contrary to credible articles in the press.

Unfortunately, "credible" and "press" no longer go together.

Chris is giving you, us the facts.

 

[John N]

At this point it has become very apparent that the Viper being spun off is absolutely the best thing for the car. I am afraid the fate of the company is becoming clear, with the govt forcing huge chunks of Chrysler equity over to the union and Fiat. It is a very sad path, but it is reality. I currently own 2 Vipers, a Challenger SRT, and 2 Ram pickups, so I have obviously been a fan of the company. Now I am looking at probably never buying another Chrysler product again, and I certainly will never buy anything from the folks over at Government Motors. The government has manipulated and prostituted the process for both companies with an eye towards paying off the union support received. I will vote with my wallet and not support the surviving companies. This is all particularly sad when remembering that Chrysler was the cream of the crop when it was sold to the Germans.

Let's all hope for good news regarding that Viper spinoff.

 

[bmw2nv2000]

If Chrysler goes under Im going all Porsche

 

[HSSSSSS]

I, we, have owned(still have 6) 30 Mopars since 1963. We have watched Chrysler go through some very good times('70 Road Runner-440 6Pack-4spd) and some very rough times. In the past it looked like they were done for and then they would pull a rabbit out of the hat(K car, mini van). I am going to stay optimiistic now, as well, even if they have to merge with Fiat to stay alive.
As the media is saying, this could be good for both-expanding both of their markets.
However, being a "Mopar or no Car" guy, having the Viper branch off in a new horizon will be a little disheartening but in the end having it survive, wherever it ends up, is my prime concern.
It took 15 years of drooling to get my first Viper, so having it endure this struggle would be good for all of us and all of the other guys(and gals) saving up just to get their first VIPER.

 

[Martin]

I am tired of the obvious conflicts on interest on this board. Chrysler employees want you to buy Vipers, they cannot a buyer's interest at heart. Witness all those threads about the Conner plant going on, contrary to credible articles in the press, when we are obviously looking at the end of the Viper.

I believe everyone who posts information regarding the issue is posting what they know, and their heart is in the right place on the subject. Conflict of interest isn't really an accurate or reasonable way to characterize the information being shared.

That said, one thing we all need to keep in mind is that anything can happen, and we won't know what will happen until after it has. I have been in the very painful position of having told employees that "everything will be fine, I've been assured of it" only to subsequently hear that "we, the Board, have found it to be in everyone's best interest to cease operations immediately." You just never know.

Like everyone else, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that "everything will be fine" and I'm not in a panic about it now that I've heard from Chris. That said, I have a big deposit on an ACR and I'm considering that money to be 'at risk' until I actually see the car. The facts of the BK filing seem to warrant that for the following reasons (this isn't rhetoric or speculation, and I'm not trying to stir anything up - I'm just relaying the facts as they've been released to the public via documents filed in court, and rulings made in court):

1) All plants are closing for 30 to 60 days. When they say "all" it seems reasonable to assume that means "all" - CAAP included. If there's a different definition of "all", so be it.

2) The sale of assets to the "New Chrysler" is expected to be completed in 30 to 60 days and CAAP is not going to be owned by the "New Chrysler". All indications are that the plant will be leased by the "New Chrysler" until Dec 31, 2010 so there's no problem there - production can continue on that basis.

3) Judge Gonzales refused to rule anything in favor of the dealership network this morning, which is a blow to the dealers. It's no new news that dealerships will be hit hard by the proceedings. It does open up some risk for some people who have deposits on their cars because those deposits are at risk if the dealership goes BK. At this point, nobody knows for sure which dealerships will be hit.

4) So far, no rulings have been made (to my knowledge) about payments to parts and services suppliers that support the Viper operations. So, it's safe to assume that they are not planning to continue investing time and money until they know they are going to be paid. This will likely throw an added delay to production schedules, but not the end of the world as long as production does indeed continue when all the rulings are in place.

5) The sale of assets to the "New Chrysler" will likely happen pretty quick, but the overall BK proceedings are going to drag out due to the mountain of motions being filed by creditors. Because of that, it is reasonable to assume that the purchase of Viper will be delayed. Probably not a big deal, but I have to remember the risk that "time kills all deals" and if things get delayed for too long, events may transpire that could jeopardize the deal. If a motion is made in court to allow the sale to happen, and Judge Gonzalez approves it, we'll all know very fast.

So, the gist of what I understand now is that Viper will almost definitely continue through 2010 whether a new buyer is secured or not, but it won't be "business as usual" for the rest of 2009. There will be delays in getting cars out of CAAP, and we need to keep that in mind and be ready for things to be in a "holding pattern" this summer. If I'm wrong about that, I'll be the happiest person around. But, in this particular situation, I think it is important for us all to set our expectations appropriately. It's probably not going to be business as usual on Monday morning, and we likely won't see any big forward movement for at least a month.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

I believe everyone who posts information regarding the issue is posting what they know, and their heart is in the right place on the subject. Conflict of interest isn't really an accurate or reasonable way to characterize the information being shared.

I don't agree with this statement. If the heart of people posting the information they "think" they know really IS in the right place, wouldn't it be better if they waited for official and most importantly UNALTERED news from either the manufacturer itself or the VCA leadership?
Personally, I'm getting flat out sick and tired of people posting totally unconfirmed "information" as "facts", when at a later moment it is pointed out by Chris (Y2K5SRT) that our beloved, unbiased and respectful press REMOVED crucial bits of information to give the story a twist into the way THEY see it And people in my enviroment accuse ME of being too naïeve in blindly believing everything other people say!
I would gladly volunteer myself to be the head of a specialised group of news checking moderators who can move, delete or correct false information, because we can not possibly ask Chris to be everywhere at once to put everyone's mind at ease with the limited news that he is allowed to give out.
In these modern times where everything happens NOW instead of tomorrow or later I notice that people tend to not care anymore wether something is true or not and blurt out anything that they see or hear the instant they see or hear it, this just bugs me to no end because it lacks respect and can very well destroy procedings that are "under construction" which would be a bloody shame.

 

[Martin]

I don't agree with this statement. If the heart of people posting the information they "think" they know really IS in the right place, wouldn't it be better if they waited for official and most importantly UNALTERED news from either the manufacturer itself or the VCA leadership?
Personally, I'm getting flat out sick and tired of people posting totally unconfirmed "information" as "facts", when at a later moment it is pointed out by Chris (Y2K5SRT) that our beloved, unbiased and respectful press REMOVED crucial bits of information to give the story a twist into the way THEY see it And people in my enviroment accuse ME of being too naïeve in blindly believing everything other people say!
I would gladly volunteer myself to be the head of a specialised group of news checking moderators who can move, delete or correct false information, because we can not possibly ask Chris to be everywhere at once to put everyone's mind at ease with the limited news that he is allowed to give out.
In these modern times where everything happens NOW instead of tomorrow or later I notice that people tend to not care anymore wether something is true or not and blurt out anything that they see or hear the instant they see or hear it, this just bugs me to no end because it lacks respect and can very well destroy procedings that are "under construction" which would be a bloody shame.

You might be missing the point here. The original post was aimed at "people in the know" who are allegedly posting information to put a positive spin on things because of a 'conflict of interest.' My rebuttal to that was that those "in the know" are posting what they "know" to be true at the time that they post, and they aren't doing it for any "interest" other than to share what they know to be true at the time. Things can change fast, and it will likely be WEEKS before we know anything for sure. Anything that anyone posts now can be found to be right or wrong later, whether they are the President of the VCA or a guy who heard a rumor from someone's cousin third removed - it's just a fact of life in an uncertain bankruptcy proceeding. In the interim, and in the spirit of free speech, opinion, and uncensored contribution to this public forum, it is very likely that many will post what they think is true but will later be found to be inaccurate - or true. That will happen because we will NOT hear anything concrete from Chrysler for a while - it is just human nature, and it is one of the reasons forums exist - to provide members a way to voice their opinions and thoughts in a public forum.

That said, let's remember what this forum is here for in the first place. It is a forum - to allow those of us with a common interest to voice our thoughts, share our opinions, concerns, and experience, ask questions, gather information, and enjoy ourselves. There is no guarantee that anything that anyone posts here is true and factual - that's part of the beauty of a forum - and it is implicitly accepted by anyone who reads this. If everything that was posted here HAD to be proven to be true and factual before it was posted, how many posts do you think would pass that test?

 

[cheryl mccally]

Can some "tired" and "conflict of interest" people learn to spell the word "optimism" and delete the word "pessimism" from their vocabulary? Please use the dictionary if necessary.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

Can some "tired" and "conflict of interest" people learn to spell the word "optimism" and delete the word "pessimism" from their vocabulary? Please use the dictionary if necessary.

That's what I'm constantly trying to learn people but it hardly works

 

[Chrissss]

I'll believe it when I see these "interested parties" step forward to bid on Viper. I doubt the actual deciding powers to be are going to consult with a car club anymore than they will with the press in regards to the future of the car. We will have to wait and see. I accept no opinion as fact on this matter because as to date, that's what they are, opinions. How often in business is one thing said but the opposite done? The bottom line is the car will be continued if it can determined by any potential buyer that there is money to be made. If it is determined there will be no money made, no passion or desire from any car club will save it. I love the Viper. I bought one. I hope I will always have one. I want the car to continue in the right hands. Unfortunately it will come down to money, and that decision seems to have yet to be made. We are all bystanders here waiting to see what happens.

 

[Coloviper]

Buying the car for the parts business and long term service support probably does make financial sense, but future production models, I will be amazed if it actually takes place. I am not in the know at all on anything, just my opinion.

I do agree with the original poster though. This "we know, we know" for a number of months on end is just getting very, very old. Until something is officially released, it is anyone's guess. That is what is taking place are people's guesses. It is May 2009, this wait and see, because we know everything talk has been going on for over 1/2 a year now. I don't think anyone other than Chrysler themselves is in the know. Again, just my opinion.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

I'll believe it when I see these "interested parties" step forward to bid on Viper. I doubt the actual deciding powers to be are going to consult with a car club anymore than they will with the press in regards to the future of the car. We will have to wait and see. I accept no opinion as fact on this matter because as to date, that's what they are, opinions.

I do agree with the original poster though. This "we know, we know" for a number of months on end is just getting very, very old. Until something is officially released, it is anyone's guess. That is what is taking place are people's guesses. It is May 2009, this wait and see, because we know everything talk has been going on for over 1/2 a year now. I don't think anyone other than Chrysler themselves is in the know.

Ah, well both of you are relatively new to the Viper Club scene (Chris in particular) so allow me to give you a little background that may help:

The VCA was the brainchild of some dedicated Viper owners and enthusiasts who then approached Chrysler about starting a club. Chrysler basically decided to make it a division of their marketing department and funded it accordingly. Besides that funding, they also gave the VCA use of their corporate logos, several cars for VCA events, numerous "one off" cars for raffles, and early information on a variety of Viper initiatives.

We knew about the Viper SRT Coupe well before anybody in the press, as well as the NAIAS Viper Concept that eventually became the ACR, and then there was the ACR itself: Your VCA was recording promotional video with the ACR weeks before the press got the official release. Indeed, a handful of VCA members knew about it over a year before the concept was even built. To this day the VCA has intimate insight into a variety of programs and future initiatives.

The VCA was notified of the platform sale before the press and has been intimately involved with it ever since. Two designated club representatives were brought directly on to the project to assist with the sale. Under strict NDA's, they work with Chrysler, Cerberus, the broker, and the bidders directly. They interface with many of those parties on a daily basis, including today. The VCA continues to be a defined asset to the Viper platform as a whole, representing not only the bulk of Viper marketing efforts (99%), but also the single largest group of repeat buyers out there.

The simple fact is that our hands are tied as to what we can and cannot say. We will not jeopardize the relationships that so many people have worked so hard to build over the years. The club has earned that very important trust and, even when goaded by certain people, we simply cannot afford to betray it.

So while the sales process has gone on longer than most originally expected, it is most definitely still going. And that, my friends, you can absolutely bank on.

 

[Warfang]

Ah, well both of you are relatively new to the Viper Club scene (Chris in particular) so allow me to give you a little background that may help:

The VCA was the brainchild of some dedicated Viper owners and enthusiasts who then approached Chrysler about starting a club. Chrysler basically decided to make it a division of their marketing department and funded it accordingly. Besides that funding, they also gave the VCA use of their corporate logos, several cars for VCA events, numerous "one off" cars for raffles, and early information on a variety of Viper initiatives.

We knew about the Viper SRT Coupe well before anybody in the press, as well as the NAIAS Viper Concept that eventually became the ACR, and then there was the ACR itself: Your VCA was recording promotional video with the ACR weeks before the press got the official release. Indeed, a handful of VCA members knew about it over a year before the concept was even built. To this day the VCA has intimate insight into a variety of programs and future initiatives.

The VCA was notified of the platform sale before the press and has been intimately involved with it ever since. Two designated club representatives were brought directly on to the project to assist with the sale. Under strict NDA's, they work with Chrysler, Cerberus, the broker, and the bidders directly. They interface with many of those parties on a daily basis, including today. The VCA continues to be a defined asset to the Viper platform as a whole, representing not only the bulk of Viper marketing efforts (99%), but also the single largest group of repeat buyers out there.

The simple fact is that our hands are tied as to what we can and cannot say. We will not jeopardize the relationships that so many people have worked so hard to build over the years. The club has earned that very important trust and, even when goaded by certain people, we simply cannot afford to betray it.

So while the sales process has gone on longer than most originally expected, it is most definitely still going. And that, my friends, you can absolutely bank on.

For those of us that have been here for a while, I can say that the current VCA leadership is pretty top notch. There was a time when that wasn't the case, and I (along with many others here) had no problem calling people out on it. We as "mere" members have no right to get all the inside scoop. That would be madness on all levels. All we can do is trust the people we put up top.

Believe me, what we're getting now is MILES better than the "wink wink nudge nudge" of the past.

 

[HSSSSSS]

Ah, well both of you are relatively new to the Viper Club scene (Chris in particular) so allow me to give you a little background that may help:

The VCA was the brainchild of some dedicated Viper owners and enthusiasts who then approached Chrysler about starting a club. Chrysler basically decided to make it a division of their marketing department and funded it accordingly. Besides that funding, they also gave the VCA use of their corporate logos, several cars for VCA events, numerous "one off" cars for raffles, and early information on a variety of Viper initiatives.
Etc.

Very good post Chris. I, being relatively new in the VCA, was unaware of all this. I hope all of the newer members see this. Thank you and I look forward to more info-posts.
And by the way Happy belated Birthday. I see you just went by your 10th with the VCA
Ron

 

[Sittingbull101]

The VCA was the brainchild of some dedicated Viper owners and enthusiasts who then approached Chrysler about starting a club. Chrysler basically decided to make it a division of their marketing department and funded it accordingly. Besides that funding, they also gave the VCA use of their corporate logos, several cars for VCA events, numerous "one off" cars for raffles, and early information on a variety of Viper initiatives.

Not to belabor the point, but this is exactly what I meant. Basically the club is a marketing arm for Chrysler.
This said,I have found the people here very helpful and generous, my point was not about them.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Not to belabor the point, but this is exactly what I meant. Basically the club is a marketing arm for Chrysler.
This said,I have found the people here very helpful and generous, my point was not about them.

Ah, but that is where it is REALLY getting interesting: With the almost-certain departure of the Viper from the Chrysler fold, things will undoubtedly take a departure from years past. Indeed, there have already been substantial changes over the past few months: Our day-to-day marketing contacts are gone and we deal almost exclusively with our friends in engineering now. While we fully expect to have a very close relationship with the new owners, it could be decidedly different from what we have experienced with Chrysler.

I would also note that many of the VCA officers (regional/zone/national) push Viper sales not out of any particular affinity for the parent company, and certainly not from any direction from the VCA or Chrysler. Instead, we simply want to keep the Viper alive and well for future generations. And to do that they need to keep selling - plain and simple.

Glad to have you aboard!

 

[Lucid]

Reality check : Chrysler need to make average cars/trucks to par with their counterparts. They often bottom out the rest in various quality test and reviews. Perhaps they are hung over from the trucks/suvs of the the past that paid the bills

They have made good choices ringing back the Challenger and to SOME extent the Charger (4 doors? come on!) but their lower end models which are bread and butter to them are lacking in so many ways. Maybe it's poor work by the unions and lack of resources of money.

Hopefully this US "gummyment" [sic] will allow some mass produced hybrids/plugins of quality that will fit the mainstream niche

Honestly, I got my new Viper because I wanted one for awhile and was afraid they'd stop making them due to gas mileage and price. I don't want to miss out on the last muscle car pinnacle.

10 years from now we'll be Fred Flintstoning our cars everywhere; if this administration has their ways. But hey, I pay A LOT of taxes AND paid a gas guzzler tax (carbon offset) on a car that I drive nowhere near my daily's in milage.

 

[Joseph Houss]

For those of us that have been here for a while, I can say that the current VCA leadership is pretty top notch. There was a time when that wasn't the case, and I (along with many others here) had no problem calling people out on it. We as "mere" members have no right to get all the inside scoop. That would be madness on all levels. All we can do is trust the people we put up top.

Believe me, what we're getting now is MILES better than the "wink wink nudge nudge" of the past.

Allow me to add my $.02 to this topic (and warfang's thoughts).

EACH "cabinet" of National Officers, from Maurice forward, were presented with challenges in mastering the network of Chrysler executives, marketing departments and associated marketing agencies that changed CONSTANTLY during their tenure. Responsibilities, mandates, and as Chris pointed out, restrictions to disclosure also presented challenges that were harder to control than a Tetris game.

What you see today, is the result of over a decade of "changes to the recipe" that was presented by our friends at Dodge and especially SRT.

Let's hope that Chris' leadership will continue to stretch the boundaries of interelationship between the VCA and whomever is declared the lucky victor of the Viper brand!

 

[ViperTony]

It's the Viper Club of America....of course folks here are going to push the Viper. We love Vipers...the more Vipers and Viper owners the better. Whether CAAP stays open or doesn't stay open...get's leased or doesn't get leased...moves or doesn't move...doesn't matter because if you have a Viper then cherish it by driving it and not getting caught up in the news, or lack thereof, about CAAP. If you don't have a Viper...run out and buy one today.