don't remove throttle stop

[DonMc]

don\'t remove throttle stop

i recently adjusted my gas pedal and removed the throttle stop under the pedal as suggested in the sean roe procedure...on the 6th 1/8 mi run last night at the drag strip the throttle cable grommet pulled/ripped thru the firewall...fortunately this is a no throttle instead of full throttle situation...i am guessing that removing the stop created a lot of stress as i smashed the pedal to the floor!! thank goodness for my hertz gold card, i doubled it over cut a hole in it and it held the grommet on the right side of the firewall till i could get home...has anybody else had this problem, the throttle grommet doesn't seem very sturdy regardless the pedal stop goes back on this weekend!!!

 

[RickV2K]

Re: don\'t remove throttle stop

same here. coasted into a gas station and got under the steering column and took the disk at the end of the cable and wedged it into the bar that the pedal is attached to. worked as though it was designed that way. will pick up cable tomorrow and install myself....even though under warranty. the grommet comes as part of the cable assembly. scarey to have no power at all.

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: don\'t remove throttle stop

DonMc,

This is going to sound defensive because you're pointing a comment at me.

The grommet on the cable housing pulling through the firewall most likely has nothing to do with the throttle stop under the gas pedal being removed. Removing the stop generally will not put any additional pressure on the grommet at the firewall. The grommet is attached to the outer cable housing and will have the pressure of the resistance of the throttle body springs on it. Removing the stop under the pedal arm usually frees up about 1/8" of pedal travel and should only be modified or removed IF the throttle bodies are not getting full throttle and the pedal hits the stop too early. If you modify it and there is pedal travel available beyond full throttle, you will not want to press the pedal any harder than it takes to ensure full throttle, as it can eventually stretch or damage the cable.

Does your car have aftermarket or modified throttle bodies? This is a common occurence at Viper Days events when the the cars have aftermarket TB's and the car is hot (I saw Jim McCann's team have it happen two times on the same car before I pointed it out to them two years ago). Most times, when throttle bodies are altered, the assembler winds the return spring a little tighter. This puts more pressure on the cable housing and firewall grommet. If the grommet (which is a sloppy rubber grommet instead of a secure hard plastic design) is hot, it tends to pull the cable through the firewall instead of pulling the throttle levers (path of least resistance).

Please post whether or not your car has aftermarket or modified throttle bodies. As it was your 6th run, we already know that the grommet and firewall were hot and it would be good to have more info.

You don't have to buy a new cable, just fabricate a thin aluminum or steel plate in the shape of a U and slide it onto the housing at the firewall, like you did with your Hertz card, to secure the cable housing. Use some silicone to hold the plate in place and seal the hole.

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: don\'t remove throttle stop

With our clutch lowering links, we provide instructions on how to move the gas pedal for better heel and toe braking and how to check and adjust for full throttle. It's common for 1998 and older Vipers to not achieve full throttle at the throttle bodies when the gas pedal is to the floor. One way to correct this is to bend or remove the plate that is under the pedal, which has a small lip on it. Because this is a fabricated piece and there are wide production tolerances, sometimes the setup can be off. It's good to make sure you're getting full throttle when you think you are. All Vipers are subject to not getting full throttle depending on the placement of the carpet mat. We always remove them for dyno testing.

 

[RickV2K]

Re: don\'t remove throttle stop

i just noticed in my service manual under...fuel system...throttle cable adjustment....14-7. holler if you need any info.

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: don\'t remove throttle stop

Rick,
What year book are you looking at? I don't see anything at all about throttle cable adjustment in the books I have here and page 14-7 is the fuel system diagnosis page in our books ('94 and '97). What does your shop manual say about adjustment of the throttle cable? I see where it shows how to replace the cable on page 14-17.

 

[RickV2K]

Re: don\'t remove throttle stop

oops sorry.......2000. and there probably is a difference in adjustments. according to manual no reproducing of any info in any way. it's a simple proceedure. if you wanna e-mail me or call or i can call. let me know if you need any info.

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: don\'t remove throttle stop

Okay,I found it in the '97 book, page 14-10.
Basically it says to put a small shim under the gas pedal and adjust the bracket on the intake manifold for full throttle . When the shim is removed, the pedal will travel a little farther and ensure that full throttle is achieved. One problem though, the brackets on the '96 and '97 cars (maybe other years as well) don't have enough adjustment (slot) in the bracket to get full throttle. That's what we found and is why we outline how to check and adjust it with both the bracket and the stop. Adjusting for full throttle at the intake bracket also changes the pedal height, where adjusting the stop (bending it down) does not.
On Don's car, either the pedal had too much travel beyond full throttle and he had excessive pressure on the pedal when it was already at full throttle, or the grommet on his car was hot and weak, or he had aftermarket throttle bodies.

Solution:
Check and adjust for full throttle, make sure the pedal doesn't have too much travel beyond full throttle and reinforce the grommet to keep it from pulling through the firewall if you have aftermarket throttle bodies with heavier wound springs.

P.S.
We're talking about the 1996 and newer cars with the single throttle cable and adjustable pedals.

 

[8AVETTE]

Re: don\'t remove throttle stop

i had the same problem VOI6 5th run at the strip. the problem was i had borla headers and no heat shields. the heat was just to much the grommet got very soft and popped through the fire wall.

Don

 

[BurnR8]

Re: don\'t remove throttle stop

just because this board has become HYPER sensitive....I thought I would add that Sean Roe is a total stud! Everything I have purchased from ROE RACING has been of exceptional quality and his customer service is unparalleled. I wanted to mention this simply because most of the post lately have been ripping people new A-holes for (sometimes)trivial reasons....Thanks for all the help and service Sean...and remember....don't sweat the petty things.....pet the sweaty things

 

[DonMc]

Re: don\'t remove throttle stop

sean, not trying to place blame at all, thats why i wanted to post and see if others had this problem with or without the stop..i was speculating as this is the only mod i made to the throttle..i have a 00 acr with headers and exhaust, vec1, clutch link, etc but no throttle bodies yet...its hard to believe they made the throttle attachent that cheesy...for me its real hard to be aware of where the pedal is while i am trucking down the track, except that it won't travel any farther!! btw, dodge ordered just the grommet since rest of the cable assembly seems fine, 4 bucks..cheapest part i ever bought for it!! i think i will reinforce this one...and yes the car was hot as a firecracker..it was 95 degrees and i had made several runs..the rubber had actually torn around 1/2 of the grommet...

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: don\'t remove throttle stop

Hi Don,
Personally, I din't think you were trying to put the blame on anyone (me), but this message board has become so sensitive lately that I thought it would be best to say "this is going to sound defensive" in advance. No Hard feelings either way. I'm always available to help.
That day I was referring to when Jim McCann had his grommet pull through on two cables, he reinforced the third one by placing some rubber tubing on the froward side of the grommet, held in place with a hose clamp. Crude, but effective. You could probably rig up something a little more permanent to do a similar job (reinforce the forward side so it doesn't pull through).
I really enjoy these cars, but find that there are several areas where they just fell short a bit on engineering (common with a limited production car, especially one as affordably priced as the Viper). This is one of them.
Though this has not happened to me, you're not alone.
Take care,