Exhaust nightmare, help!

[Nadine UK GTS]

Couldn't wait to fit my B&B 3" stainless steel system, and firstly spent over $800 on ceramic coating the headers.

Problem: Had a lot of trouble trying to fit it. Eventually managed to fit the headers after a lot of brute force, and removing quite a bit from the engine bay! The rest would not fit, bends at wrong angles, hanging too low, joins off set, etc! In the end I ran out of time (after spending 12 hours on it) and had to drive to work for a night shift. Because of the situation, I had to drive it with only the manifolds in situ. Very, very loud, sounded like ORECEA's GTSR, (and spat flames!)

Anyway, (apart from being close to tears) 3 Q's:

1) Firstly has anyone else fitted a B&B system?

2) Could I have done any damage to the engine driving it with zero back pressure, just the headers for 20 miles (I kept the revs below 3K)?

3) The oxygen sensors on the new headers were situated to only read from 3 cylinders, not the whole bank of 5 on each side, (it's the tri-y 3 + 2 into one design) surely it should read from all cylinders to run the engine from this info effectively?

Thanks in anticipation for your help.

 

[HouseofSpeed]

Nadine...are you sure they sent you headers for a coupe and not a Gen 1 car?

 

[Marv S]

Jerry Scott has these headers. He posted a photo of them and has some good tips on installing them. Do they look like yours? Also, Mike Adams sells the B&B setup. http://64.70.135.137/ViperUBB/Forum14/HTML/000902.html

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[Nadine UK GTS]

Thanks for replies; mine look the same as the ones pictured by Jerry. (I got the system from Mike, awaiting his reply, mailed him direct).

 

[Mike Brunton]

Nadine,

I can answer 2 & 3

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2) No, you won't damage your engine by running with almost no backpressure. The Viper engine likes a little backpressure (longer exhaust creates a scavenging effect which '*****' exhasust gas from the cylinder), so you won't be getting max performance, but no harm will be done.

3) The only time it would matter to read on 3 cylinders as opposed to 5 would be if there was a problem in the other 2. The air/fuel ratio should be virtually the same in all cylinders, and even if one of them was off it wouln't affect the ratio given the other 5 running normally would 'mask' the effect that one cylinder had on the temperature.


Umm, so Nadine, you race motorcycles, you have a Viper, and you work on it yourself? I think I might have to marry you!

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[Ulysses]

Hmmm,

This is just my opinion, but if the exhaust was made for a Viper, and several people have already used/installed them and had no problems, then you shouldn't have problems with fit and have to cut to make them fit. Most major fit problems should have been worked out before they ever put the product on the market.

Also, sometimes, if a header won't go in from the top, most likely, it will go in from below a lot easier, which, of course, will require a lift. My point here is that you shouldn't have to force the exhaust into the engine compartment to get it installed.

Again, this is just MHO, and hopefully someone will post who has installed the B&B's before.

Good Luck and I hope everything starts to go smoothly.

 

[Nadine UK GTS]

Firstly thank you so much to everyone for your help and replies, it is so nice to have my cries for help answered, THANKS.

Yes you do get what you pay for...that's why I spent over $800 on ceramic coating just for the headers! It was a triple layer coating, plasma sprayed on, it is the best you can get, the stuff that aluminum turbo housings are coated with to stop them from melting! The quality of the exhaust...well I discovered one of the header pipes had been cut through (appears by accident when skimming the adjacent pipe) and then the hole welded to correct! Hmm...

I will contact B&B. The headers I have got to fit...'just', but for starters, the flanges of the 90 degree bends need cutting, turning quarter of a turn and re welding. The drivers side 90 degree bend also wants shortening. Bracket hangers need cutting off and re positioning. It is as if the whole system moved in the jig before it was stainless welded up!

I will try to find a company in the UK that can stainless-weld, to sort it out for me, there's quite a bit of work to be done! (I can only Mig!)

I went for the B&B system because it was a complete system from the same company. I wanted the Belanger headers, but didn't want the hassle of trying to mate a header from one company, up to a different 'after' system from another company!! I repeat "I didn't want the hassle fitting"...** ** **! (Got to try and laugh or I'll cry.) My Christmas day drive is looking like it will be a static one in the garage! Boo Hoo...

 

[Mike Brunton]

Nadine,

I would do everything I could to get B&B to pay for these changes. Tell them that you bought the headers because you THOGUHT they were a quality piece, and you spend a lot of money on coating them, and that since they now don't fit, you either need to be reimbursed for the coating (unless B&B will fix YOUR headers), or they should pay for the fixes.

It really irks me when companies sell inferior products and don't give a **** . Let's see if B&B steps up to the plate and takes responsibility for their product's problems.

Please let us know how it works out.

 

[Jerry Scott[CO]]

Nadine - I put my B&B stainless set on last year and also had a problem with the fit on the passenger (right) side. The pipes would not go around the engine mount and the bends coming off the block were too far outboard, causing interference with the frame. I send drawing describing the interference to Eric at B&B who fixed the problem and sent them back to me. You may have an older set that had this earlier problem. Where did you buy them and when? Call Eric at: 888-228-7435 (toll free) or fax him on: 623-581-5640. All of the later models should have this correction built in. B&B was very good about correcting the problem and paying the shipping. I made sure that they fit before I had them ceramic coated. I would bet that they will exchange them to fix the problem, but you will lose your investment cost of the ceramic coating. They do not do the coating.

On the left side, I had to put a 1/8 in. shim under the left engine mount to get the header to clear the bottom of the frame hole. Keep in mind that the left side header will lift about 1.5 in. under full torque, so you will want the exhaust pipe to be about 1/2 in to 3/4 in. off the bottom of the frame hole. The right side header should be about the same dimension off the top of the frame hole. E-mail me if you need more help. Mine are great now that I have them installed with 3 in. cats and the Borla Cat back system.
Jerry Scott 303-697-0662.

 

[Tom Welch]

All i can say is YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

The SVP, B&B Try-y is a(won't discuss quality) imitation of the Belangers system. I have installed literally dozens of the Belangers and have sent dozens of sets out to do-it-yourselfers and dealers like Woodhouse Dodge for installation, and have NEVER had to have a header cut or modified in any way to fit the car. I have just finished an installation on a brand new 2000 GTS and it went as easy as when i installed the first set on my own car over one hundred sets of headers ago!. There is absolutely no shimming the engine, cutting, welding, sprinkling with holy water, NOTHING REQUIRED. Just bolt them on!

I hate to get on here and preach, bragg, whatever you want to call things, but i say again YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

I remember a conversation with Mr. Scott after he received his Brand "X" and called me to ask if mine fit because his didn't. He had to send his back twice! Is it really worth the few hundred dollars savings for the aggrivation and lack of performance? Not to mention the ROYAL MINDSPANK you got from the coater!

Sorry, just had to take the opportunity to vent, for all of those who beat me up on price!(its been a while since i have vented on this board anyways, right Tony-vipermad)

Have a nice Christmas, enjoy your exhaust!

tom Http://btrviper.com

 

[Jerry Scott[CO]]

Nadine - Make sure that you have the right parts. There should be a total of 6 parts to the two headers, with no two parts the same. If any parts are exactly the same, then you do not have the correct parts for the system, since all parts are different in some way. I have heard of this happening one other time, where two of the same pieces were shipped and the system would not bolt together. It is a good idea to bolt the headers together before you put in on the car, just to see if it makes sense and to see if it looks right, before trying to put it on the car. Of course then disassemble it and bolt it to the block one piece at a time. From what you have said, it sounds like you may not have the correct parts, since it should not be that far off. I assume also that you realize that you need to remove the a/c air box and the a/c fan motor from the right side of the car, to get enough room to bolt on the header. I hope that I was helpful.