First Track Day with our 2008 - Impressions

[vincy]

Hello to all. We got our first Viper a short time ago from Woodhouse, with Motons but the rest is stock. We read all the stuff about it being hard to drive and spin outs without warning, so we were nervous about going to the track. But we took the Viper to the track anyway and drove it quite a bit, five 20 min sessions at Summit Point WV. Here are our impressions.

It is a great track car, fun to drive and stable. We did not find it twitchy. It seemed very stable on braking and turn in. The back end didn't seem loose, but maybe I didn't push the car to the limit, but I did a good job of making the tires look like they were pushed hard. It was an 85 degree day. The tire pressures went up from 30 to about 38 psi, which I don't think it too bad.

The car seemed to stick great in the corners. While I didn't slide I could feel the limits, so right now it doesn't seem like a car that bites you without any warning. The brakes were great. At Summit Point there is one 140+ mph straight to a tight 180 degree turn, and some other braking zones. I didn't feel any fade but I was braking early most of the time.

W need to drive the car again at Summit Point but my initial impression is the car is geared too high for that track. We have driven Vettes at SP, both with 383 strokers and 500 HP. With the Vettes 3rd gear was good for coming out of the corners, 3.42 gearing. With the Viper there is not enough torque in 3rd coming out of the corners and second is too high needing an immediate shift. The gearing may have been protecting me coming out of the turns, that is less torque and less tail happy.

Going into the long straight 3rd is too high so you don't build speed fast enough. With the Viper gearing it is harder to pass than with the Vettes because of lack of engine speed and torque exiting the corners in 3rd. The Viper engine seems to need higher revs to make power, or different gearing.

There were not a lot of real fast cars there so I don't know how well we would do against the fastest cars. I only got passed once by a pait of full race gutted BMWs. I hate it when those boxy things run me down. There was a 911 Carrera 4s there who wasn't even close, but I don't know how well he could drive.

We really enjoy the Viper as a track car. Its fun to drive. We are probably a little faster in our 997TT at this time, with four wheel drive it shoots out of the corners. But we would rather drive the Viper on the track.

The Verdict. There is something wrong with me and my wife marysc6. We always want more HP. The Viper could use more HP or gearing on the track we go to. Maybe if I get faster on the turns I can keep the 3rd gear revs up for more exit power.

 

[black08]

Thanks very much for your driving impressions...very interesting. Now if we could only get those fortunate enough to have had their ACR delivered to share with us and do the same.

 

[vincy]

Thanks very much for your driving impressions...very interesting. Now if we could only get those fortunate enough to have had their ACR delivered to share with us and do the same.

My wife wanted to get the ACR. I thought it was "too much" for the street. She was right, we should have gotten the ACR.

Is the rear end ratio different on the ACR?

 

[black08]

I think the vast majority of people will agree with you and will use the ACR as a track car and not a street car, although it's nice not to have to trailer it for those track events.

As far as the ratio, the ACR's is no different.

Enjoy!

 

[redtanrt10]

Vincy, Glad your got your car and tracked it. I remember tradeing notes with you about 06 vs. 08 before you ordered. Couple of ways to go with gearing, 3:33's or 3:55's. I've got 3:55's and out here at Willow springs for example, I've got some plus and minus vs. other vipers (turn by turn and straights). I had a 3:55 Gen II ACR in Phoenix and it was the same, plus-minus vs. 3:07. Before you consider the change run a few more times, as you get more comfortable in the turns you may find higher exit speed that would negate the need to switch. also, if your going to run HPDE events regularily, get some track wheels and tires and go with 18's in the rear. PS2's are great but dot Kumo's are better and cheaper. Also using 18's will give you a slight increase numericaly in the rear ratio. At the end of the day you still might want a higher ratio, but try a few more events and 18" first. From the track's I 've run out here if I did it again I'd go with 3:33's. Mike

 

[johnk]

Good post. Contact Mark J. ASAP, perfect opportunity to catch that upcoming empty trailer back from MD. Quaife w/ 3.55 gears (or 3.33s if you perfer) and that Bellanger exaust would transform your car. Mark is making great progress on the mods to my car. He had upgraded my Paxton '06 to 3.55s when I bought it new from Woodhouse last year, and I recently sent back for a number of additional mods, including a Quaife. Best of luck

 

[vincy]

Good post. Contact Mark J. ASAP, perfect opportunity to catch that upcoming empty trailer back from MD. Quaife w/ 3.55 gears (or 3.33s if you perfer) and that Bellanger exaust would transform your car. Mark is making great progress on the mods to my car. He had upgraded my Paxton '06 to 3.55s when I bought it new from Woodhouse last year, and I recently sent back for a number of additional mods, including a Quaife. Best of luck

Johnk, thanks. We are thinking headers and gears and hope to get a ride back to Woodhouse. Does wht Quaife help with an 08? I thought maybe the rear end was improved for this generation? Thanks

 

[Alexarz]

vincy, I have both an SRT and a GTS. The SRT is very soft in the low end compared to the GTS and I think it accentuates the tall gearing even more. I agree that you will probably like it much better with lower gearing.

 

[Boxer12]

Your car has the same rear end as the ACR...I would leave it. I think you will need to adapt your driving style some, esp if you are used to a rear engined car (as I was). You might find it better to late brake, and get it turned, then early on the gas. Also, the 'seat of the pants feel' is deceiving in a Viper...the engine has torque and is pulling hard even when the revs are lower and it doesn't necessarily feel like it. I found a racing seat to make a huge difference, it really improves the feel. The stock seats **** for the track (they can go back in for the evening on the town). Also, change the pads to some proper race pads. Call Archer and get some Mintex racing pads. Also get some two piece slotted rotors and lighter wheels. Do all this before you change the rear end. If you still aren't satisfied, get a rear wing and front splitter...your corner speeds will be a lot faster and this will translate into faster exit speeds and faster straight speed (for passing). I assume you can afford these things if you considered an ACR. You will basically have an ACR at that juncture. Why not get Hoosier VRL slicks? If you can afford it, there is nothing else that compares. Nobody will touch you if you make these mods to your car. Go for it! Enjoy! Hope to see you at the track some day! #12

P.S.-You also should get 6 pt harnesses and a fire system if you are going to be tracking your car. Not to mention, a rollbar is a must for me. If its a vert, then a top is a must for track days! Safety first.

 

[DEKE01]

Are you Don? I'm Dan, '04 black vert yesterday at SP.

Assuming you are the guy I met, you're driving in the advanced group and I'm waiting to be moved up. You have more experience than I do, so maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. Some of what you're saying I agree with, some of it doesn't fit with my impressions.

>>It is a great track car, fun to drive and stable. We did not find it twitchy. It seemed very stable on braking and turn in.<<

Absolutely. I know I'm not pushing my car to the limits, but I find it is fairly self correcting. I've turned it around once on a cold wet track, but any other time I got loose, lifting the gas just a tad fixed it up just fine.

>>The brakes were great. At Summit Point there is one 140+ mph straight to a tight 180 degree turn, and some other braking zones. I didn't feel any fade but I was braking early most of the time.<<

I'm hitting 140 on that straight and the turn I muck up the most is #10, leading into the straight. If I could get #10 down better, I should be able to hit the 150 that many other Gen-3 Vipers are doing. With your Gen-4 600 ponies, 160 ought to be in your reach as long as you're willing to brake aggressively going into #1.

>> With the Vettes 3rd gear was good for coming out of the corners, 3.42 gearing. With the Viper there is not enough torque in 3rd coming out of the corners<<

Again, maybe I just don't drive it hard enough, but I found that 3rd all around the course was fine until I go north of 120 on the straight. In 3rd, I've got enough torque that I can break the back in loose if I'm not smooth on the gas coming out of #3 and #5 turns.


>>With the Viper gearing it is harder to pass than with the Vettes because of lack of engine speed and torque exiting the corners in 3rd. The Viper engine seems to need higher revs to make power, or different gearing.<<

In my run group, that's not my experience, but maybe it is more the drivers than the cars. Yesterday I was taking it easy because my brakes are dying after 5 track dates. I had to brake early in every turn so a couple of Vettes and an Infinity caught and passed me. I could take them on the straights, but couldn't hold my speed long enough into the turn to keep the position. And one of those Vettes was running race tires, a roll cage, and was coy about what other mods he had made. But other than that, since my second day at SP, nothing has passed me. Of course my first day was a different story. I was so worried about taking care of my car and not breaking any rules that everything passed me including a little old lady walking her dog.

>>We really enjoy the Viper as a track car. Its fun to drive.<<

Shoooot yeah! And it's fun to park as well. No one notices the Vettes in the paddock, but Vipers, F-GTs, and Ferraris always draw the best crowds.

I look forward to seeing you back at the track and on a cruise. Congrats on a beautiful new car. I didn't like Venom Red at the factory, but out in the sun, that thing looks great.

 

[Kadeuces]

Ive got an 08 with the Belanger headers cat backs hf cats, motons, SSR track 18s all the way around with sticky Kumhos, lightweight stoptech slotted rotors, K&N air filter, autoform roll bar, 6 point harnesses venture shield bra, a short throw shifter, carbon fiber interior console, and deeper functional cup holder. Thanks to Jon B for the great pricing on parts and thanks to Todd at A&C performance. I can't wait to take this beast on to the track!
I wonder what mod is next -

 

[vincy]

Are you Don? I'm Dan, '04 black vert yesterday at SP.

Assuming you are the guy I met, you're driving in the advanced group and I'm waiting to be moved up. You have more experience than I do, so maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. Some of what you're saying I agree with, some of it doesn't fit with my impressions.

>>It is a great track car, fun to drive and stable. We did not find it twitchy. It seemed very stable on braking and turn in.<<

Absolutely. I know I'm not pushing my car to the limits, but I find it is fairly self correcting. I've turned it around once on a cold wet track, but any other time I got loose, lifting the gas just a tad fixed it up just fine.

>>The brakes were great. At Summit Point there is one 140+ mph straight to a tight 180 degree turn, and some other braking zones. I didn't feel any fade but I was braking early most of the time.<<

I'm hitting 140 on that straight and the turn I muck up the most is #10, leading into the straight. If I could get #10 down better, I should be able to hit the 150 that many other Gen-3 Vipers are doing. With your Gen-4 600 ponies, 160 ought to be in your reach as long as you're willing to brake aggressively going into #1.

>> With the Vettes 3rd gear was good for coming out of the corners, 3.42 gearing. With the Viper there is not enough torque in 3rd coming out of the corners<<

Again, maybe I just don't drive it hard enough, but I found that 3rd all around the course was fine until I go north of 120 on the straight. In 3rd, I've got enough torque that I can break the back in loose if I'm not smooth on the gas coming out of #3 and #5 turns.


>>With the Viper gearing it is harder to pass than with the Vettes because of lack of engine speed and torque exiting the corners in 3rd. The Viper engine seems to need higher revs to make power, or different gearing.<<

In my run group, that's not my experience, but maybe it is more the drivers than the cars. Yesterday I was taking it easy because my brakes are dying after 5 track dates. I had to brake early in every turn so a couple of Vettes and an Infinity caught and passed me. I could take them on the straights, but couldn't hold my speed long enough into the turn to keep the position. And one of those Vettes was running race tires, a roll cage, and was coy about what other mods he had made. But other than that, since my second day at SP, nothing has passed me. Of course my first day was a different story. I was so worried about taking care of my car and not breaking any rules that everything passed me including a little old lady walking her dog.

>>We really enjoy the Viper as a track car. Its fun to drive.<<

Shoooot yeah! And it's fun to park as well. No one notices the Vettes in the paddock, but Vipers, F-GTs, and Ferraris always draw the best crowds.

I look forward to seeing you back at the track and on a cruise. Congrats on a beautiful new car. I didn't like Venom Red at the factory, but out in the sun, that thing looks great.

Hi Dan, yes I'm the guy you met. I must have been coming out of the corners too slow so the engine speed was down. We were at the Mt Arie cruse in last night. See you next time, track or cruise in.

 

[mangle]

Speaking of summit.... I keep hearing that the track is literally crumbling in 5. Can anyone attest to this?

 

[vincy]

Speaking of summit.... I keep hearing that the track is literally crumbling in 5. Can anyone attest to this?

Yes, it is crumbling in 5. There used to ba concrete but now its asphalt. I thinks its crumbling in more than one place as the car was bouncing. Because it was a new car I was more focused on looking forward so I don't have more details. The video camera got shifted so I only have partial video and can't see the track.

 

[DEKE01]

Speaking of summit.... I keep hearing that the track is literally crumbling in 5. Can anyone attest to this?

Unfortunately, yes. In turns 1, 5, and 6 there is a two foot wide swath that looks like a caterpillar tractor was on the track. I heard that it started falling apart during a NASA event. For Vipers, you can straddle the rough part or swing wide and avoid. Either way you are ending up on a slower line.

The guys with really hard race set ups can't run on it, so I'm told. For street cars, you can hit the rough parts and get bounced a bit and have the car lift and slide to the outside just a bit. Definitely not a good thing for asphalt that is only 7 - 8 months old. And I was told by the head FATT instructor that nothing can be done about it until winter because the track is booked every day till then.

SOrry you missed the *****, Matt.

 

[Viper X]

Good write up.

Sounds like all you need is a little more seat time and you will be coming out of the turns faster, which will help with your corner exit speed and 3rd gear acceleration issues.

The first step is to get a set of 18's all around on some track tires. This will lower your overall gear ratio just a bit and help your corner exit speed too.

Dan

 

[FrankBarba]

i have to disagree with you....3rd in all corners is a great gear to be in....3rd in turn 1, thru the carousel, shift to 4th before 2nd S, shift to 5th just before bridge, down shift to 4th & carry the speed, shift back to 5th just before S/F Line...then down shift 4,3 before turn 1....

 

[DEKE01]

i have to disagree with you....3rd in all corners is a great gear to be in....3rd in turn 1, thru the carousel, shift to 4th before 2nd S, shift to 5th just before bridge, down shift to 4th & carry the speed, shift back to 5th just before S/F Line...then down shift 4,3 before turn 1....

I'm new to this so maybe I don't understand proper speed vs revs. I don't know what the top speed in 4th is because I've never gotten there. But why shift to 5th ever on Summit main unless you've found a way to go well above 140 MPH?

I'm doing 80 - 90 MPH coming out of turn 10 in 3rd and shift to 4th somewhere half way down the straight in the range of 5.5K revs and 120 MPH. Seems to me if you did all that one gear higher, you would be way to low revved to be in the power zone.

Maybe I'm all wrong and that's why I'm having a hard time getting above 145 on that straight.

 

[FrankBarba]

Turn 10 is a speed turn, you should be able to carry in excess of 110mph. You will track wide & your A$$ wil pucker but it can be done. If i did not shift near the Start/Finish Line my revs would be at Max... Turn 9 is also a speed turn. You only need to tap your breaks to settle the car as with turn 10...i am currently turning 1:19's trying to get into the 17's....

 

[vincy]

i have to disagree with you....3rd in all corners is a great gear to be in....3rd in turn 1, thru the carousel, shift to 4th before 2nd S, shift to 5th just before bridge, down shift to 4th & carry the speed, shift back to 5th just before S/F Line...then down shift 4,3 before turn 1....

I don't see how you can go into 5th before the bridge. I got to just below 150 down the long straight, in 4th gear. Going into 5th before the bridge would be 150 or higher.

I can agree I need more time in the Viper to increase the exit speeds.

 

[Boxer12]

Your max torque is at 5000 rpm, which is probably where Frank is shifting, or even a little sooner. Experienced Viper drivers will get into higher gears and use the torque. If you are used to listening to the engine, you will have to adjust to looking for a shift light or at your tach.

 

[DEKE01]

Turn 10 is a speed turn, you should be able to carry in excess of 110mph. You will track wide & your A$$ wil pucker but it can be done. If i did not shift near the Start/Finish Line my revs would be at Max... Turn 9 is also a speed turn. You only need to tap your breaks to settle the car as with turn 10...i am currently turning 1:19's trying to get into the 17's....

WOW! Are you serious?!? And what do you mean by "carry in excess of 110mph", where in the turn are you saying 110? I'm doing 110 on the 9 - 10 straight, and brake down to about 70 and am back up to 80-90 at exit. I know that is slow, but turn 10 is the only one where I've spun so I'm a bit intimidated and I haven't figured out how to do anything better - yet.

What are you driving? 1:19's is FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for a turn 9 brake tap, I've been taught to do a brake tap to settle the front going into 6 and then a continuing steady increase in speed until exiting 9. I've beaten all but about 3 cars in the 5 thru 9 series that I've ever run against, but I have not lost sight of the fact that I'm in group 1, in a Viper, and my competition (hey, it's NOT A RACE) is usually in nothing special. I rarely have competitive cars/drivers to compare my pace to, so it's hard for me to gauge the effectiveness of my 5 - 9 technique.