Foxnews says "Chrysler shuts down Friday for a month..

Bandit3

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Isn't it normal for the mfgrs to shut this time of the year? Retooling for the next year?
 

aries

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Damn UAW!!! How can the Big 3 compete against the imports when the UAW forces them to pay their employees more for the same work? The answer is they can't. We have to level the playing field. I have no doubt that we can make products on par and above what the imports make, we just have to be on the same pay scale as them. The UAW would sooner let the company fold then to give consessions.
 

GTS Bruce

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Yippee an x-tra months paid vacation for the UAW. Yep they get 95% of their regular salary and get to sit home.The 3 desperately need to go bankrupt to get rid of their insane UAW contracts. GTS Bruce
 

ViperLSS

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Yippee an x-tra months paid vacation for the UAW. Yep they get 95% of their regular salary and get to sit home.The 3 desperately need to go bankrupt to get rid of their insane UAW contracts. GTS Bruce

I would rather be at work building cars than sitting at home. But that is a choice I don't have.

Damn UAW!!! How can the Big 3 compete against the imports when the UAW forces them to pay their employees more for the same work? The answer is they can't. We have to level the playing field. I have no doubt that we can make products on par and above what the imports make, we just have to be on the same pay scale as them. The UAW would sooner let the company fold then to give consessions.

And what do you do for a living that affords you the right to judge how much I should get paid? Either of you? Do you even have a clue what an employee working at a main manufacturing plant 8 to 12 hours a day while building 80 cars an hour does to a persons body? I do. I've seen it in my dad. Right now he's either in a wheel chair or using a prosthetic leg. So do you think he earned what he got paid?
On the subject of Christmas. What are your plans? Mine are to find a way to keep from loosing my home to foreclosure. New Years will be spent praying I still have a job.

Happy Holidays everyone.
 
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RoadiJeff

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Damn UAW!!! How can the Big 3 compete against the imports when the UAW forces them to pay their employees more for the same work? The answer is they can't. We have to level the playing field. I have no doubt that we can make products on par and above what the imports make, we just have to be on the same pay scale as them. The UAW would sooner let the company fold then to give consessions.

Say what??? The hourly wage between the Big 3 and the import transplants is close, if not the same. The major difference are things like retiree pensions and their health care, which the domestics have a lot more of on their books. Perhaps they should adopt a policy like in the movie "Logan's Run", where anyone over the age of 29 was exterminated.

The UAW has already agreed to major concessions such as eliminating things like the jobs bank if this loan deal is approved. Also, the health care management was turned over to the UAW in the last contract. The Big 3 still have to provide the initial funding for it that they agreed to.

As far as additional wages cuts, I challenge any senator who voted against the loan deal to take a wage cut in proportion to what they wanted the UAW employees to take.

Anyone here who is not happy with the UAW is more than welcome to trade their UAW-built Viper for something rice.
 
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gb66gth

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The CAAP (Viper factory ) is actually going to be closed until early February now.
The problems the Big-3 are having is not helped by the fact that the banks won't extend credit to consumers, so they can buy new cars. What they're doing is taking their part of the $700 billion bailout and sitting on it and not lending it out, which would actually get the economy rolling again. Greedy ********!
 

aries

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Say what??? The hourly wage between the Big 3 and the import transplants is close, if not the same. The major difference are things like retiree pensions and their health care, which the domestics have a lot more of on their books. Perhaps they should adopt a policy like in the movie "Logan's Run", where anyone over the age of 29 was exterminated.

The UAW has already agreed to major concessions such as eliminating things like the jobs bank if this loan deal is approved. Also, the health care management was turned over to the UAW in the last contract. The Big 3 still have to provide the initial funding for it that they agreed to.

As far as additional wages cuts, I challenge any senator who voted against the loan deal to take a wage cut in proportion to what they wanted the UAW employees to take.

Anyone here who is not happy with the UAW is more than welcome to trade their UAW-built Viper for something rice.

I don't know where you get your facts from but you are incorrect. Check this out:

According to Forbes:

Labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers, 2006.

Ford: $70.51 ($141,020 per year)

GM: $73.26 ($146,520 per year)

Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720 per year)

Toyota, Honda, Nissan (in U.S.): $48.00 ($96,000 per year)

According to AAUP and IES, the average annual compensation for a college professor in 2006 was $92,973 (average salary nationally of $73,207 + 27% benefits).

Bottom Line: The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more compensation than the average university professor with a Ph.D. (see graph above, click to enlarge), and 52.6% more than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.

Many industry analysts say the Detroit Three, and especially Ford, must be on par with Toyota and Honda to survive. This year's contract, they say, must be "transformational" in reducing pension and health care costs.

What would "transformational" mean? One way to think about: "transformational" would mean that UAW workers, most with a high school degree, would have to accept compensation equal to that of the average university professor with a Ph.D.
 

GR8_ASP

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Aries that study was GARBAGE. You just told someone who knows exactly what his paycheck was that it was triple what it really was.

That study included junk like retiree pensions (which were funded while the retiree was working), retiree health care, etc. The US auto industry has been downsizing due to productivity improvements and loss of market share for years. The retiree size is large on a per current worker basis. A comparison to companies with very few retirees is mindless.

Note even your language changes in the stats. It is "labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers, 2006" versus "average annual compensation." Apples and oranges, even without the incorrect manner of including retiree costs on the current worker.

All-in-all your conclusions are completely incorrect. Wages are NOT the problem. This has been stated over and over. Job banks and sub pay are much larger of an issue. And health care was moved from OEM run to UAW run at the last contract. It is now their business to decide how to reduce the costs.

I really wish the internet searchers thinking they now have the knowledge of the world would apply a reasonable degree of common sense and fact checking before they make conclusions that are really stupid.
 

Shandon

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I don't know where you get your facts from but you are incorrect. Check this out:

According to Forbes:

Labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers, 2006.

Ford: $70.51 ($141,020 per year)

GM: $73.26 ($146,520 per year)

Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720 per year)

Toyota, Honda, Nissan (in U.S.): $48.00 ($96,000 per year)

According to AAUP and IES, the average annual compensation for a college professor in 2006 was $92,973 (average salary nationally of $73,207 + 27% benefits).

Bottom Line: The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more compensation than the average university professor with a Ph.D. (see graph above, click to enlarge), and 52.6% more than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.

Many industry analysts say the Detroit Three, and especially Ford, must be on par with Toyota and Honda to survive. This year's contract, they say, must be "transformational" in reducing pension and health care costs.

What would "transformational" mean? One way to think about: "transformational" would mean that UAW workers, most with a high school degree, would have to accept compensation equal to that of the average university professor with a Ph.D.



I would rather have a guy with a high school diploma and good work ethic employed than a professor with a PHD anyday! Might explain a lot heheheheheh :rolaugh::lmao: Sorry It just hit me funny so I had to laugh:D
 

Ken Lally

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I see legacy costs as only part of the issue, consider:

-few American inspired interesting/fun fuel efficient cars (when we really needed them)
-lots more global competition for our dollars that did not really exist before
-tightening credit -slowing demand
-way too many similar products. Dodge has a mini van, Chrysler has a minivan, Dodge has a large SUV, Chrysler has a large SUV, Jeep has, what - like 5 SUVs!!.. in various flavors that compete with the same from Dodge and Chrysler.

It does not make any sense to me. To fix the big 3 you need to adress all these issues.

IMHO
 

chimazo

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Do you guys think that the plants will ever re-open? There's discussion that many(all?) may not. If Cerburus doesn't want to continue to fund Chrysler (and it could), what does that say about their confidence in its future? Is the extended shutdown just a prelude to Bush's "orderly" bankruptcy?

As quoted from several reputable news sources,
"Chrysler has said its cash will drop to $2.5 billion by Dec. 31, the minimum needed to meet payroll, pay suppliers and run the company. It would have trouble paying bills after the first of the year.

Operations will be idled at the end of the shift on Friday, Dec. 19th shift. the earliest plants will reopen is Jan. 19, 2009. A few plants will reopen on Jan. 26."

Chrysler used the word "earliest" instead of definitively saying that they will reopen. A lot of thought goes into these press releases...
 

Camfab

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I would rather be at work building cars than sitting at home. But that is a choice I don't have.



And what do you do for a living that affords you the right to judge how much I should get paid? Either of you? Do you even have a clue what an employee working at a main manufacturing plant 8 to 12 hours a day while building 80 cars an hour does to a persons body? I do. I've seen it in my dad. Right now he's either in a wheel chair or using a prosthetic leg. So do you think he earned what he got paid?
On the subject of Christmas. What are your plans? Mine are to find a way to keep from loosing my home to foreclosure. New Years will be spent praying I still have a job.

Happy Holidays everyone.

Unfortunately my friend, most of the Vocal opinions on this board would love to see the UAW disappear. Though I do feel their are issues on both sides, I feel for all the families who are and will be affected by the outcome of this mess. Good luck to you and your family.
 

RoadiJeff

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I don't know where you get your facts from but you are incorrect

As GR8 ASP accurately pointed out the figures you quoted are greatly exaggerated.

I worked for Chrysler for 25 years. I wish they paid me even 1/2 that hourly wage the media claims. If you fold in the legacy costs of things like retiree pensions and their health care then those inflated figures are not so far off. I already said that things like retiree pensions, health care and the jobs bank are why the Big 3 production costs are higher than the imports.

Last month I accepted a severance package buyout because I do not see the ship turning around anytime soon. I figured I'd better take the money and run while they still have some to give out. Instead of being able to retire with a full pension in 5 more years it looks like I'll be doing the daily grind for another 15 years.
 

Flyntgr

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There is no reason why UAW workers cannot work for the same wages and benefits that the foreign car workers in the USA are making. I read a story one time that you don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg. The UAW seems to be more than willing for the US auto industry to be killed rather than make the concessions necessary to get them on a level of the Japanese workers in the USA. Sorry to have to say it, guys, but the UAW has too much power and is harming the American public by their high demands. Feel free to disagree if you're one of the workers, but you won't persuade ME. Nevertheless, God Bless you every one, and have a Merry Christmas this year. I hope the US economy can come out of its slump in time to help save your jobs and your homes. If not, we all suffer.
 

RAYSIR

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Seems this is an arguement that NO one would win...It's too bad the UAW and manufactures didn't have cryslal balls years ago.. Everyone wants the best retirement and medical to last a lifetime...Looks like we are finding out it can't happen in the private sector and only in Government and our tax dollars covering it...NOW they want to bail out the manufactures, with the limitless government money.
Who bails out all the suppliers and keeps their pensions and medical going when the manufactures fail??? The bail out money is a temporary band aid. How long do tax payers stop the bleed??
We didn't see anybody bailing out the pensions of the people working for Enron??
The politicians are working toward the end of free enterprise system when they don't let these problems take care of themselves...The manufactures bankrupt, UAW closes down, other business opens to pick up the slack and needs of the country. Remember the air traffic controller strikes... same senerio..

Just my uneducated, useless comment.:confused:
 

VENOMAHOLIC

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I would rather be at work building cars than sitting at home. But that is a choice I don't have.



And what do you do for a living that affords you the right to judge how much I should get paid? Either of you? Do you even have a clue what an employee working at a main manufacturing plant 8 to 12 hours a day while building 80 cars an hour does to a persons body? I do. I've seen it in my dad. Right now he's either in a wheel chair or using a prosthetic leg. So do you think he earned what he got paid?
On the subject of Christmas. What are your plans? Mine are to find a way to keep from loosing my home to foreclosure. New Years will be spent praying I still have a job.

Happy Holidays everyone.

I agree that it is not classy to judge how much others make if that pay is what the market can afford. At the time of the last UAW contracts, the big three could afford whatever wages were and still have profit. There are a lot of stockholders on this site that would love to see unions get busted and eventually that will happen with increasing globalization. With Mexico so close with it's third world wages the whole US manufacturing base is on a death spiral. The smartest people see this as a race to the bottom that nobody wins. Union power has an expiration date when contracts expire after a few years and concessions are made each time. If the credit crisis was not happening then the big three would still be doing just fine. I sympathize with your dad and wish you the best of luck keeping your job.
 
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VENOMAHOLIC

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As GR8 ASP accurately pointed out the figures you quoted are greatly exaggerated.

I worked for Chrysler for 25 years. I wish they paid me even 1/2 that hourly wage the media claims. If you fold in the legacy costs of things like retiree pensions and their health care then those inflated figures are not so far off. I already said that things like retiree pensions, health care and the jobs bank are why the Big 3 production costs are higher than the imports.

Last month I accepted a severance package buyout because I do not see the ship turning around anytime soon. I figured I'd better take the money and run while they still have some to give out. Instead of being able to retire with a full pension in 5 more years it looks like I'll be doing the daily grind for another 15 years.

In addition to your statement, union labor take home isn't as much as many think after we are hit with 33% or higher taxes. You were smart to take the severence package. I am still amazed that there is so much animosity against unions from the rich. Most of these guy's that critcize unions make much more than union emloyees and would laugh at us if we questioned how much they make. Personally, I believe in live and let live on this site so I don't go that road.
 

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