Gen I 404 HP Viper beats a Gen II 436 HP Viper

Sniper

Enthusiast
Joined
May 2, 2001
Posts
953
Reaction score
21
Location
Viper City, Iowa
From a rolling start at around 40 mph up to 120-130 mph, as much as a car and a half win. Every roll on, the Gen I pulled the Gen II. Gen I has full exhaust mods, aluminum flywheel, tubes and filters, Vec 1. Gen II only has tubes and filters.

And you say, how can this be?!
 

Performin Norman

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 13, 2001
Posts
1,198
Reaction score
0
Location
Lee's Summit, MO, US
Matt,

Higher dyno numbers does not mean that a car is faster. It is ONLY an indicator of peak horsepower and torque. Taking out the driver error, one car can dyno lower numbers and technically produce more power along the entire powerband. When you race your car, you run through a specific rpm range, you don't race at the peak rpm where the motor runs best. I was telling people this at the dyno yesterday so people wouldn't get so hung up on the numbers. Then you add driver input and you have a totally different ballgame.

BTW, it was good to meet you in person.
 
OP
OP
Sniper

Sniper

Enthusiast
Joined
May 2, 2001
Posts
953
Reaction score
21
Location
Viper City, Iowa
Norman - It was nice to meet you!

Just trying to get the Indians riled up!

And there was no driver error, trust me.

Oh, and Paul Bilberry, don't tell me torque!
 

DSSX

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 23, 2001
Posts
35
Reaction score
0
Thats alright mine still looks alot better!!!!
yesnod.gif
 

Diablo Joe

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 21, 2001
Posts
291
Reaction score
0
Location
Lakeland,Fl
Im thinking the Gen I has a weight advantage.Im sure if you weigh 160 lbs and the Gen II driver is 300lbs it would definitely make a difference.Plus Im almost positive the Gen I lost a lot of weight by upgrading the exhaust where the Gen II has cats and a heavy cat-back.

Joe
 

99 R/T 10

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 4, 2001
Posts
10,314
Reaction score
0
Location
Enterprise, AL USA
Take him on Tom, show Todd what a Gen I can do! But wait till I get there, I want to see this. Remember though, the Gen I above had headers, need to find some for ya.

Mike
 
OP
OP
Sniper

Sniper

Enthusiast
Joined
May 2, 2001
Posts
953
Reaction score
21
Location
Viper City, Iowa
Actually, the way it happens is that all the way up to 4500 rpm's, the Gen I is at a 30+ hp advantage. And after 4500, the Gen II gets the 30+ hp advantage. I would say the other driver probably weighs as much as I do.

So, as Norman said, it's not just the peak hp that will win a race. It's the full powerband hp. I think where the Gen II would take me is once we hit 5th gear after 4500 rpm's. 150-160 range, maybe a little later. I don't know, we haven't tried it yet!
BURNOUT.gif
 
OP
OP
Sniper

Sniper

Enthusiast
Joined
May 2, 2001
Posts
953
Reaction score
21
Location
Viper City, Iowa
Hey, Randall- Like I've said in an earlier post, we did a roll on race to see exactly how much my car gained. If we went from a dead stop, the race would've been up to the better driver off the line. We tried to get the fairest race, I even let him start first on one roll. I would love to hit the track! I wouldn't even mind letting someone who gets great times at the track to run my car because I'm not the best off the line(which could be because of my tires, too).

Not trying to start a ******* match about this topic, just thought it would be an interesting read because all the discussions on this board are about this car has *** amount of hp at this weight and this car has *** amount of hp at that weight and so this car would kill that car in a race. This case scenario shows it's not about the peak hp #'s. It's about the hp #'s through the rpm range. I think Apex Motorsport stresses this fanatically.
 

Russ M

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 1, 2000
Posts
2,315
Reaction score
0
Location
LA, California
Matt,

Am I right to prosume that this is the same Gen 1 that also made dyno pulls that were posted on this board? If so then your answer is look at the torque numbers. That Gen 1 makes amazing torque numbers at the wheels 500lbs. Which happens to be the reason he is driving around you even though you make more hp.

Torque wins short bursts, horse power wins hi speed runs.
 

randall

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 8, 2002
Posts
297
Reaction score
0
Location
Overland Park,Ks.
Matt,
are you and gregg running the same rear end gears?and did you guys start out of the same trans gears?this has a big effect on rolling start races.
smile.gif
 
OP
OP
Sniper

Sniper

Enthusiast
Joined
May 2, 2001
Posts
953
Reaction score
21
Location
Viper City, Iowa
Yes, we both have stock gearing and every roll on, we started in the same gear. Once I get some new tires on the car, I would be willing to wager that my car will win in a quarter mile race, decisively. Yes, my car has some huge torque, but that's not what will win the race on a flat surface, hp will. Torque would come into play more if we were on an uphill race or the wind was coming into us pretty strong. Someone at the dyno explained torque to me in an easy to comprehend way. Take me and Gregg's car for example and hook both up to a tree. My car would yank it out of the ground and Gregg's would bogg down because of torque even though his peak hp is higher.

Randall, I'd love to run you if you'd like. Now, remember, Gregg's car is pretty much stock compared to mine, so, I'm not here saying my car is better than anyone else's or anything like that. I just find it very interesting to see a lower peak hp car outrun a higher peak hp car because it makes up for it under the 4500 rpm range.

To give you an example of my car's power-I can fish tail at 50 mph in 2nd gear simply by giving it gas alone, no clutch. And when I was at the track and shifted into 2nd, my car about lost it from fishtailing. I've even been at 80 mph in 3rd and fishtailed a little after I gave it full throttle.

If I could get my peak hp alone up, this car would be a monster!
 

randall

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 8, 2002
Posts
297
Reaction score
0
Location
Overland Park,Ks.
Matt,

btw that was me that explained torque to you sunday,you remember i'm the short fart!torque is what gets your car going,flat streets or not.torque can let you use a higher rear-end gear which gives you more speed,once the car is moving then your h.p. comes more into play.think of a tractor that can pull the front wheels off the ground,that is torque,you just can't go fast though.in the quarter mile torque helps the first half of the track and h.p. helps more on second half.

as far as a race together,i think we should all meet up at kcir dragstrip someday that would be fun!who's gonna run gary(787 h.p.)?the track would be a good way for me to learn how to drive this beast,haven't even been over 100 mph yet!so i'm sure you'd kick my a$$!
smile.gif
 
OP
OP
Sniper

Sniper

Enthusiast
Joined
May 2, 2001
Posts
953
Reaction score
21
Location
Viper City, Iowa
Randall, Randall, you haven't even been over 100 yet?! My car doesn't know what not hitting 100 feels like.
laugh.gif

That would be awesome to get a bunch of us to hit KCIR.
Sorry about not remembering your name, but that is one of my downfalls-remembering names.
And don't get your hopes up about me kicking your @SS on the track, because I'm not any good at the hole shots!
tongue.gif


Try to get Chris to schedule a KCIR day.

P.S.- the torque explanation was aimed at Russ so you can explain that part better than I can.
 

randall

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 8, 2002
Posts
297
Reaction score
0
Location
Overland Park,Ks.
Chris,

if your out there,what do you think?isn't there a mopar show comming up soon at KCIR?maybe we could have a viper showing?
 
Top