Gen I Viper vs Corvette C6 in Road Racing and 1/4 Mile.

[Early93Viper]

My un-bias opinion (LOL) would be the Gen I viper is faster in the 1/4 mile and in most Road racing tracks. My basis for this opinion would be:

GEN I Viper = more torque, more rubber to the road, and less creature comforts to get in the way of going fast.

My only problem with that opinion would be brakes.

I know that in real world experience the better driver would win in either car. But which car do you think is honestly faster and why.

 

[STUGOTS]

I think the gen 1 because of the TQ numbers where the 2 have about the same HP numbers.

Also the 2003 z06 is faster then the c6 and from what I hear the gen will also beat that not by too much but it will win.

 

[REDSLED]

The Corvette C6 will outperform a Gen 1 on a road racing circuit. The Gen 1 is not the greatest road racing car. The car is very twitchy and the rear end can get loose in a corner very easily. Now, the Gen 2 is a whole different story. Gen 2 GTS even better than a Gen 2 RT/10 as far as road course ability. Brakes on a stock Corvette are better than the stock Gen 1 & Gen 2 cars. Both C5-6 Corvettes and Gen 2 are very capable road course cars, each having their pros and cons, however, it's this road racers $.02 that both cars are superior to the Gen 1 on a road course.

 

[Early93Viper]

The Corvette C6 will outperform a Gen 1 on a road racing circuit. The Gen 1 is not the greatest road racing car. The car is very twitchy and the rear end can get loose in a corner very easily. Now, the Gen 2 is a whole different story. Gen 2 GTS even better than a Gen 2 RT/10 as far as road course ability. Brakes on a stock Corvette are better than the stock Gen 1 & Gen 2 cars. Both C5-6 Corvettes and Gen 2 are very capable road course cars, each having their pros and cons, however, it's this road racers $.02 that both cars are superior to the Gen 1 on a road course.

I would have to disagree with the General conscientious that the Gen I viper is twitchy. In my experience if you go to a safe place (racetrack, empty parking lot, etc.) and get the back end out on purpose you will eventually see that although it comes out quick it is quite predictable and catch able.

 

[99 R/T 10]

The Corvette C6 will outperform a Gen 1 on a road racing circuit. The Gen 1 is not the greatest road racing car. The car is very twitchy and the rear end can get loose in a corner very easily. Now, the Gen 2 is a whole different story. Gen 2 GTS even better than a Gen 2 RT/10 as far as road course ability. Brakes on a stock Corvette are better than the stock Gen 1 & Gen 2 cars. Both C5-6 Corvettes and Gen 2 are very capable road course cars, each having their pros and cons, however, it's this road racers $.02 that both cars are superior to the Gen 1 on a road course.

I would have to disagree with the General conscientious that the Gen I viper is twitchy. In my experience if you go to a safe place (racetrack, empty parking lot, etc.) and get the back end out on purpose you will eventually see that although it comes out quick it is quite predictable and catch able.

The Gen I suspension make it "twitchy", because the upper and lower comtol arms aren't as stiff. The 96 RT/10(Gen 1.5) had the Gen II suspension though(much better)

1/4 mile times would be very close(as is the performance between the two). It all comes down to the driver. Can't speak to the road race, but the simple fact the Vettes brakes are much better than the stock Vipers gives the edge to the Vette. My $.02

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Agree with Early93Viper, Gen 1 seems to have an abrupt turn in oversteer tendency that doesn't continue through steady state cornering; this transient effect can be tuned out by stiffening the front shocks relative to the rears (even though OEM shocks are only jounce control.)

Front end geometry of Gen 2 is same as Gen 1 (except that aluminum arms replaced steel.) I hear that only the rear anti-squat was changed for Gen 2, so it shouldn't affect corner entry unless braking at the same time? Shock mounting locations were different than Gen 1, requiring different length shocks and probably different settings. I know the color changed from orange to blue... and after one ride, I think the OEM setting is softer in Gen 2 than Gen 1. Outside of aero, why should a Gen 2 RT not be the same as a GTS?

If the course is tight, on paper, Corvettes should be able to take advantage of their brakes (OEM non-ABS Viper set up is pretty marginal) and lower weight. It seems like they do in autocross events, although I can't easily subtract their ABS from the comparison. On a 1.5 mile course like Lime Rock, even an amateur like me (with just Kuhmos, rear calipers, and one sticker) can keep up with the Hoosier/lowered/roll cage/lots of stickers Corvettes.

 

[REDSLED]

Early 93-Getting the rear end of a Gen 1 to come around in a parking lot is a whole differnt story than getting the car to plant in a decreasing radious turn at 140 MPH. I've tracked the Gen 1 and you simply cannot compare the handling to the Gen 2 set up. Getting a car to catch is not that difficult with some throttle steering and steering input, but to get the car to catch while at the same time maintaining a decent pace on the track is more difficult in the gen 1 than Gen 2. The Gen 2 cars simply handle better than the Gen 1 cars.
Tom -you're right about the Aero issues between a Gen 2 RT/10 & GTS. Aero plays a nice role in why the the rear end can get light in an RT/10 and not in a GTS. Perhaps it's the way the air moves over the back of the GTS and hits the lip on the rear of the car. I'm not an Aero engineer so I can't honestly tell you why, but I've tracked both the Gen 2 RT/10 & GTS extensively and I can tell you the rear of the RT/10 tends to get light in off camber turns while the GTS sticks. Don't know why, it just does. I'm sure more experts on chassis set up and design will join in a shed more light on the subject.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

take the blinders off and put the crack pipe down, the C6 is a MUCH better car, go drive it before you assume any more about the car. GM has put together a hell of a car.

 

[Early93Viper]

take the blinders off and put the crack pipe down, the C6 is a MUCH better car, go drive it before you assume any more about the car. GM has put together a hell of a car.

I have put my crack pipe down and my blinders are off and I still think my Gen I viper is a MUCH better car than some cookie cutter, dime a dozen vette. I have driven many C5s including a couple of z06. I have even driven autocross in a z06. Admittedly I have not driven a C6 but from what I here it is just an improvement on the C5. Although all (vettes) are undoubtedly fantastic cars I would rather have my hand built, mega performance, incredibly fun to drive super car.

 

[STUGOTS]

I have driven a c-5,a c-6 and a z06 vette and I am impressed with it, I have never driven a gen 1 but I can say this those cars are not in the same league as my gen 2 by any means.

 

[REDSLED]

Thank you Craig! You can never argue with opinion. Real world experience will lose every time. "From what I hear" "I would rather" "Dime a dozen" These are your words you use to compare your Gen 1 (11 year old technology) with the Corvette (today's technlogy) Yikes!

WAR Crack smoking autocrossers with old technology

 

[RX VIPER]

take the blinders off and put the crack pipe down, the C6 is a MUCH better car, go drive it before you assume any more about the car. GM has put together a hell of a car.

A friend of mine has one; great car. But let's not forget it took them a decade to catch the stock Gen I.

 

[RX VIPER]

REDSLED you beat me to the point about the age..

 

[IEATVETS]

All's I know is that I have raced many a' vette and have YET to loose. They are nice cars, don't get me wrong, and they are fast, just not as fast as my Gen1. I could care less about "tracking" my car cause the Vette outshines me there but in a straightline.........bring 'em on!

 

[Early93Viper]

Thank you Craig! You can never argue with opinion. Real world experience will lose every time. "From what I hear" "I would rather" "Dime a dozen" These are your words you use to compare your Gen 1 (11 year old technology) with the Corvette (today's technlogy) Yikes!

WAR Crack smoking autocrossers with old technology

Didn’t start this thread to start a fight. Just wanted to here some thoughts on this matter and hopefully some real world experience. Maybe a friendly difference of opinion. I have given my real word experience in this matter and hope others will follow.

PS Well over a million vettes have been made the fraise a dime a dozen seems to fit the vette.

 

[Sniper]

Haven't found a Gen II or III to outrun me yet. All I have is headers, hi-flo cats, and mufflers. All this track talk means nothing to me, I bought a street car. You think if a Mustang outruns me I'm going to say, "Yeah, but let's take it onto the track and I'll take you."? Please! And a C6 with exhaust hasn't a chance. Now, if I had the car for the track, it would be a different story.
Craig, you're clueless why people own a Gen I Viper.

 

[Iceman]

Just curions, why do you guys think the Vettes has better brakes? I have had both a Vette and a Viper and I think the Viper stops better. The Vette has two piston fronts and the Viper has four piston.

Now if you are talking about the OEM pads that come with the cars you may have something there. But the PFC'01 that I tried on the Viper are awesome at the track.

 

[ACELLR8]

I have to agree with Matt, I have not had any Gen II or Gen III beat me yet in my 95.

I won't deny the car does not handle or break like my 01 GTS, but the fun factor in the Gen I is unsurpassable when compared to driving the Gen II. I am sure on a road course the Gen I would more and likely get beat by the C6 Vette as well as the Gen II Viper.

Even when my Gen I was virtually stock (374 RWHP) I had beat every stock Z06 I raced at the local drag strip.

Call me crazy but I would NEVER trade my 10 year old RT for any C6, Z06 and that will never change. And yes I have driven quite a few Z06's. I guess it all depends on what a person wants out of a car as well as personal taste.

 

[BlueGTS]

Early93, I can't believe you are comparing messing around in a parking lot to the obvious high-speed tracking Redsled is doing. Have you ever tracked your car on a 120+ mph track? Do you honestly think you can truly understand the handling dynamics of Viper by stepping it out in a parking lot?


Matt, if you have not found a Gen 2 or Gen 3 that can outrun you, you should get out more. Maybe meet some more Viper owners. Every time I go to a Viper meet, half the cars are faster than mine, which is fine. Around here no full exhaust car would claim to be the king, way too many forced induced cars running around.

With that said, I understand completely why you bought a Gen 1. They are great cars for the street. They do everything I would ever need on the street. Power is not everything; style has a lot to do with it.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Lime Rock has a long straight (135 MPH) leading into a decreasing radius 180 degree turn ("Big Bend") that (admittedly with my non-OEM rear brakes) garnered me lots of questions about whether I had ABS or not. And I have ACR spring rates on the '94 OEM shocks, which were changed from OEM settings.

This bench racing thread will never satisfy anybody that has been there, done that, but my point was that the 11-year old technology is not too bad, not too different from Gen2 (control arms are lighter, but same bushings, if anyone knows more please speak up) easily within tweaking distance of making it a car better than a driver's comfort level and so that the driver skills become the determining factor.

Time doesn't make it poorer technology. I drove the yellow '03 movie cars in the regional rendezvous and again at the PVO-VCA autocross and those cars were far more tail happy than my car ever was. I was over 1.5 sec quicker in back to back times with my car vs. the Gen 3. I think that's another example of how it's not simply the year that matters, it's the tweaks that matter.

 

[Early93Viper]

Early93, I can't believe you are comparing messing around in a parking lot to the obvious high-speed tracking Redsled is doing. Have you ever tracked your car on a 120+ mph track? Do you honestly think you can truly understand the handling dynamics of Viper by stepping it out in a parking lot?

Blue GTS
I was not comparing messing around in a parking lot with a race track. In fact race track was in my quote. I was just saying you can get a better feel for the Gen I or any other car for that matter by taking it to a parking lot or Track and letting it step out a bit.

Man you would think I posted this in the corvette forum. LOL

Really though I love the Handling on my Gen I Viper and I think many would agree. Some would include magazines like Road and Track (I know I am about to magazine race LOL) in Road and Track Specials of 94 they took the Gen I to Willow springs here’s what they said:

"We're not just talking straight line stuff here, either. Through the nine turns of Willow Springs Raceway, the RT/10's cornering grip was phenomenal in a race-car kind of way."

Also Lateral accel on a 200 ft skidpad is .96 not bad.

I know it bugs me when someone pulls out a magazine and starts quoting it also. But you have to consider that the people at Road and Track drive hundreds of cars a year and gave that praise for the GEN I. In not just that article but other articles as well(Road & Track: Feb 92, Specials 92,Vette viper vector comparison test aug 92, apr 93, specials 93,). All testers had similiar thoughts on the Viper.

My point: I honestly don't know what car would do better on a race track (that’s why I started this thread). But I can tell you that Gen I cars are great handling cars and us Gen I guys know it.

 

[BlueGTS]

My un-bias opinion (LOL) would be the Gen I viper is faster in the 1/4 mile and in most Road racing tracks. My basis for this opinion would be:

GEN I Viper = more torque, more rubber to the road, and less creature comforts to get in the way of going fast.

My only problem with that opinion would be brakes.

I know that in real world experience the better driver would win in either car. But which car do you think is honestly faster and why.

Back to the point of your post, I know the Gen 1 is a performance car that can mix it up with any car on a road course with the right driver. That said, you put the same driver in both cars I will bet the C6 would turn better times. When you say creature comforts that get in the way of going fast, what are you talking about? This might be true if it were not for the fact that the Vette is lighter. Another good creature comfort for the track is ABS. I honestly do not think a stock Gen 1 could keep up with a C6 on a track, with the same skill drivers.

Not to make this a Gen 1 vs. Gen 2 thing. I would not be surprised if the new Z06 could lap faster than my car, heck maybe even the standard C6 can do it. I have no problem admitting that to Viper or Vette people. Now, is that fact going to make me run out and by one... NO... I did not buy my car because it is the fastest lapping car; I bought it because it is what I wanted.

 

[STUGOTS]

Just curions, why do you guys think the Vettes has better brakes? I have had both a Vette and a Viper and I think the Viper stops better.

I agree there, I have driven quite a few vettes my dad USED to be a vette fanatic I mean vette was everything to him that is UNTIL HE DROVE MY VIPER AND NOW HES A VIPER MAN ALL THE WAY but thats another story I personally think the viper does stop better (well gen 2 anyway for I have never driven a gen 1).

Since my dad USED to own all these vettes the dealership sends him a letter each year saying "come down and test the new vette" and every year he does, he drove the c-6 and the z06 (2003) and said neither one are **** compared to my at the time only had smoothies/filters Gen 2 and I agree just my .02

 

[STUGOTS]

Even when my Gen I was virtually stock (374 RWHP) I had beat every stock Z06 I raced at the local drag strip.

I believe it im sure you did I have 100% faith in the vipers gen 1,2 or 3.

Call me crazy but I would NEVER trade my 10 year old RT for any C6, Z06 and that will never change. And yes I have driven quite a few Z06's. I guess it all depends on what a person wants out of a car as well as personal taste.

AMEN TO THAT very well said

 

[93Cobra]

I just recently purchased a 00 FRC Corvette and can honestly say that the Vette is easier to drive then my GTS. But then again my GTS has no traction control or abs like the Vette. Anyway, if I had to pick one it would be the GTS hands down. Its more challenging and fun to drive in my opinion. I look at the vette like a sportscar and the Viper like a race car. Just my .02

 

[CSTER]

I just sold my Z-06 to buy my 2002 Viper GTS/ACR. I had a C5 coupe before the Z-06. My impressions are as follows:

Braking: Z-06 wins.

0-60 mph: Too close to call, although the Viper does seem to be easier to launch so far.

1/4 mile: Viper will eat the Z-06 up from 1/2 way and on, although I haven't yet been to the track to test.

Acceleration on the highway: Viper wins again.

Top speed running/acceleration over 125 mph: Viper feels a lot stronger -- aerodynamics seem to have no effect on this car!!!

I seem to recall, though, that the Gen I Vipers (400 HP) were tested by all of the mainstream mags to run 0-60 around 4.5 sec. and the 1/4 mile at around 12.5 to 13.0 with trap speeds around 110 mph to 114 mph. If those numbers (and my memory) are correct, then a C6 wins in the acceleration department, as do current C5 Z-06s. Am I wrong with those stats though?

 

[ACELLR8]

I just sold my Z-06 to buy my 2002 Viper GTS/ACR. I had a C5 coupe before the Z-06. My impressions are as follows:

Braking: Z-06 wins.

0-60 mph: Too close to call, although the Viper does seem to be easier to launch so far.

1/4 mile: Viper will eat the Z-06 up from 1/2 way and on, although I haven't yet been to the track to test.

Acceleration on the highway: Viper wins again.

Top speed running/acceleration over 125 mph: Viper feels a lot stronger -- aerodynamics seem to have no effect on this car!!!

You are about right on the stats for the Gen I, and yes the C6 and Z06 should win based on power to weight stats. At the track (high elevation, about 3 tenths slower than average) that I was running against Z06's they were running mid to high 12's as was my Gen I.

I seem to recall, though, that the Gen I Vipers (400 HP) were tested by all of the mainstream mags to run 0-60 around 4.5 sec. and the 1/4 mile at around 12.5 to 13.0 with trap speeds around 110 mph to 114 mph. If those numbers (and my memory) are correct, then a C6 wins in the acceleration department, as do current C5 Z-06s. Am I wrong with those stats though?

 

[Blade Runner]

In St. Louis the blues have it. Blue and white supercharged vipers that is. Since they showed up the vets stick to the back roads. Everytime they see a viper they take the next exit.

 

[Early93Viper]

I just sold my Z-06 to buy my 2002 Viper GTS/ACR. I had a C5 coupe before the Z-06. My impressions are as follows:

Braking: Z-06 wins.

0-60 mph: Too close to call, although the Viper does seem to be easier to launch so far.

1/4 mile: Viper will eat the Z-06 up from 1/2 way and on, although I haven't yet been to the track to test.

Acceleration on the highway: Viper wins again.

Top speed running/acceleration over 125 mph: Viper feels a lot stronger -- aerodynamics seem to have no effect on this car!!!

I seem to recall, though, that the Gen I Vipers (400 HP) were tested by all of the mainstream mags to run 0-60 around 4.5 sec. and the 1/4 mile at around 12.5 to 13.0 with trap speeds around 110 mph to 114 mph. If those numbers (and my memory) are correct, then a C6 wins in the acceleration department, as do current C5 Z-06s. Am I wrong with those stats though?

Acording to Car and Driver December of 04 1/4 mile for the C6 is 12.6 @ 114
Acording to Car and Driver July of 95 1/4 mile for Gen I Viper is 12.8 @ 109

 

[CSTER]

I was pretty close on the 1/4 mile times for the Gen I then. I'm glad I'm not losing my mind as bad as I think sometimes.

Forgot to add:

Handling: So far, Z-06 wins, but only because I'm still getting used to the Viper. The Viper's steering is much heavier. The car does weigh around 400 lbs more, so maybe it's just the car that I'm feeling. I do think that there's a lot more grip with the Viper by virtue of it's wide rear tires. The Viper is easier to manage from the standpoint of power, though. Picking the perfect gear for each corner exit doesn't seem to matter with the Viper. The Z-06, on the other hand, loved to rev and gear selection was much more important. I imagine the two would be very close in the corners, with the Viper, of course, having an edge in powering out of corners and down the straights.

Christian