Gen III heads on a Gen II - Is this possible?

[onerareviper]

Since the Gen III heads flow so well, can you bolt then on a Gen II? If so, how easy?

Thanks.

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

They are a direct bolt on other that the front three exhaust flanges are inverted.They even use the same head gasket

 

[Torquemonster]

Will std Gen 1 and 2 Viper headers still fit if the flanges are modified?

 

[FE 065]

Bigger question might be what's the price of 2 complete GenIII heads compared to having yours ported?

 

[Torquemonster]

Perhaps - but if money is not too tight you need to remember that the Gen 3 heads START where your ported Gen 2 heads STOP. I'd go Gen 3 in a blink if the money wasn't an issue. Max ported heads can crack over time too - another reason to consider the Gen 3 and go mild on the porting.

There's 900hp+ potential on motor alone in the SRT10 heads.

 

[FE 065]

If they start where ported GenIIs leave off,
then bolting on GenIIIs would add 50hp or more..?

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

Perhaps - but if money is not too tight you need to remember that the Gen 3 heads START where your ported Gen 2 heads STOP. I'd go Gen 3 in a blink if the money wasn't an issue. Max ported heads can crack over time too - another reason to consider the Gen 3 and go mild on the porting.

There's 900hp+ potential on motor alone in the SRT10 heads.

Well said and true.As far as the header flanges the new header design that we are making will have the flanges designed to work on gen 1,2 and 3 without changing out headers or fabricating anything

 

[Marv S]

any issues to bolt on the gen2 accessories and gen 2 im or exhaust manifold onto a gen 3 head?

 

[Martin D]

Marv, yes, the Alternator will require a custom bracket....

 

[Ron]

What about the intake? Could one stealthly use the GENII or would that be too much of a limiting factor in the flow?

 

[Dyno Dave]

Use the GenII intake. It's at least as good as the GenIII.

 

[Fast Freddy]

i thought gen-3 motors are having problems with there valves. like sucking them or something. anyway isn't there a recall on that. either way what is that all about and what is the solution 2 the problem?

 

[Y2K5SRT]

i thought gen-3 motors are having problems with there valves. like sucking them or something. anyway isn't there a recall on that. either way what is that all about and what is the solution 2 the problem?

There were +/- 200 cars recalled due to the valves not getting a final grind/cut at the supplier. Resulted in no damage to the motors or any problems besides a slight loss of horsepower and torque. Affected cars could be fixed at a dependable (which there are not enough of) dealership and be on the road again in a day with new valves. There is no recall on the other 2003's.

 

[Torquemonster]

Hey Gerald - those Gen 3 heads with a bit of porting would be wicked on your DLM beast!

 

[Fast Freddy]

hey vipermed. do gen-3 heads use 1.7 ratio roller rockers or do they use 1.6 ratio. also will my t&d 1.7 ratio roller rockers that i just bought from you and have yet to install on my gen-2 heads bolt onto the gen-3 heads? if so do the gen-3 heads need to be altered in some way to accomodate my t&d 1.7 roller rockers?

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

hey vipermed. do gen-3 heads use 1.7 ratio roller rockers or do they use 1.6 ratio. also will my t&d 1.7 ratio roller rockers that i just bought from you and have yet to install on my gen-2 heads bolt onto the gen-3 heads? if so do the gen-3 heads need to be altered in some way to accomodate my t&d 1.7 roller rockers?

The factory gen3 heads utilize a 1.73 rocker, they use a bearing style arm but do not have a roller tip and gen2 T&Ds will not retrofit

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

What about the intake? Could one stealthly use the GENII or would that be too much of a limiting factor in the flow?

The Gen III intake *****. Not sure if its the plenum volume or what - but it is a restriction on the Gen III's.

 

[KenH]

Numbers just aren't adding up IMO.

The GenIII is suppose to have far superior heads than ported Gen II heads, higher ratio rocker arms, better intake manifold, better intake air filter system and is bored/stroked out for more CI. With all that, they are only putting down about 20-30RWHP more than a Gen II. Sorry, but I'm not buying the far superior theory of the Gen III parts.

Take a GenII, port the heads, add higher ratio rocker arms, extrude hone the intake, add your favorite smooth tubes and filters or whatever and bore/stroke it out to 505CI and you are going to add a lot more than 20-30RWHP.

--- Ken

 

[FE 065]

Good point..

 

[Fast Freddy]

i hear gen-3 heads have 2.00 inch intake valves. is this true? and what size exhuast valves do they have? also what size valves do gen-2 heads have?

 

[Martin D]

Ken, the problem with the Gen 3 cars is the intake manifold. The heads do flow better. Gen 3 heads and a gen 2 intake.....that is the ticket.

Regards,

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

Marv, yes, the Alternator will require a custom bracket....

Actually the alternator will mount just fine with no special brackets needed,all mounting for alternator are on the frt. cover.Problem lies in mounting the power steering pump on the left side of the motor as the gen3 heads have no place to mount the P.S pump bracket.We are in the process of developing a conversion kit.

 

[Martin D]

Duh.... I knew that. thanks for catching me med.......I mean really, alternator, power steering pump, WHATS the difference???

 

[Torquemonster]

Ken - your points sound logical except that the intake on the SRT10 is not better it is rumoured to cost 60hp due to being too short in the runners and unequal distribution issues, plus you assume the cams are the same.

The fact is the Gen 3 heads could make over 1000hp without any boost or chemical supercharging in full drag race prep. No one probably will because few bother to build 8000rpm Viper V10's for all out power. But they are a jump up from anything you can do to the Gen 2 heads.

A nicely prepared Gen 3 conversion on your Gen 2 engine with Gen 2 intake manifold etc will net a lot more than 30rwhp.

This conversion is going to become the hot item in the months to come - watch and see the results as the tuners start putting them out and getting them sorted. Add boost to these heads and we'll see new benchmarks.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Ken - your points sound logical except that the intake on the SRT10 is not better it is rumoured to cost 60hp due to being too short in the runners and unequal distribution issues, plus you assume the cams are the same.

All the tuners I have spoke with are really impressed with the flow (volume and characteristics)of the stock Gen III intake... as noted above, they love the heads too.

 

[KenH]

Just seems like there has to be a weak link in there somewhere, whether it be the intake or something else. You can't have that many better or equal parts and not have more HP than they are showing (stock).

I thought I heard that the CAM was the same, but perhaps they have made it even more creamy smooth? Anyone know for sure what the CAM specs are for the '03? I thought the Comp Coupe had the same cam as the normal '03 and when I had the opportunity to hear one run the other day, it sounded fairly aggressive to me, but maybe that was just the lack of anything resembling a muffler coupled with running on an echoy showroom floor!

--- Ken

 

[Fast Freddy]

what is the compression ratio of a gen-3 motor?

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

Just seems like there has to be a weak link in there somewhere, whether it be the intake or something else. You can't have that many better or equal parts and not have more HP than they are showing (stock).

The intake is the weak link.

 

[Marv S]

what is the compression ratio of a gen-3 motor?

9.6

check out this site for the specs:

http://www.daimlerchrysler.de/mediasite/pdf_ah/viper_2004CY.pdf

 

[FE 065]

More importantly, is the combustion chamber on a GenIII of different volume than a GenII?