Installing T&D Roller Rockers

[SUN RA KAT]

I just got a set of MOPAR Performance 1.7 T&D Roller Rockers and need advice on the best way to install them correctly. (I've already used the search feature and it only came up with a thread mostly on modifying the oil pan!)

So, what's the best way to install the T&Ds right the first time?

Thanks.

 

[Jack B]

Sun Ra Kat:

Search under my posts and T&D, also look at my Image Gallery. That should give you a start.

 

[jimandela]

luckly for me i have a good vipertech...
if i was going to add roller rockers i would rather let him handle it...
good luck.. and best wishes
Jim

 

[Dixter]

go to google.com and search for installation of Roller Rockers. There are several
sites that you can read and it should not be too big of a job for you.

And you should also read the one here in the How to section.

 

[Jack B]

There is a difference in the install process, the T&D's are sensitive to geometry or alignment. If you take your time and get the shims correct you are one third done. In the static position the roller should ride a little high or shade off center in the direction of the top of the engine. There is a picture in "My Gallery" that shows the geometry.

The second part of the mystery is the push rod length. With the correct shim in place you back out the adjuster screw till it bottoms out. You then turn it in one complete turn. At this position the correct push rod will have zero lash. This is how you measure the rod if new ones are required. You probably should change the rods because the oem units are two piece and more susceptible to failure. When the correct rod is in place you go to the zero lash point and tighten approximatelyt 3/4 to one full turn. You are now two thirds done.

The last and most time consuming part is the adjustment of the push rods. In the upgrade section under the install of the crower lifters is a good explanation of the process. The T&D's will give a stock NA engine approximately 20 hp.

 

[Dixter]

Jack, What size rods did you end up with???

 

[Jack B]

Here is my post from earlier in the year:

"Read the tech support section at the "Comp Cam" web site. There is a great section on valve train geometry. Even if you shift at a lower rpm there is a possibility of missing a shift. The following is only an opinion, a single shaft or in the case of the T&D's, a single stand is always better than a stud or segmented/quasi shaft arrangement.

One thing for sure, after your install - you will wonder how the stock rockers can handle 6000 rpm. Whether you HAVE to change the push rods is not the issue, the stock rods are a multiple piece assembly. A one piece design is more reliable. The Trick Flows, from Summit are $125. `

The length of the rod MAY change from stock. This is dependent on your engine's specific valve train geometry (post T&D set-up). My car started out with a 7.650 (black strip) rod and stayed the same after the T&D install. I did install the Trick Flow rods. If you read the "Comp Cam" white paper you will see why you have to install a rod to accurately measure its fit. You can start with the old rod or an adjustable test rod to ascertain if you have to change length. "

 

[SUN RA KAT]

Jack B (& everyone else)-

Thanks for the tips - I've made copies for my Viper Tech. If I'm lucky enough where I don't need longer pushrods, I'll still check with Sean Roe for his opinion on getting stronger pushrods. I like doing things right the first time.

 

[Mike Adams]

My experience has yeilded the following. You need 7.70 push rods which can be attained anywhere fairly cheap. You will need to use the thicker spacers include in the T&D kit. To double check you geometry. Mount the rocker rod with the large spacers under it. Install 2 rockers without pushrods. Get a magic marker and mark the valve. Now slap the rocker down on the valve. It will leave a mark on the top of the valve. If the geometry is correct it will hit in the centre of the Valve, or just forward of the centre. If it hits back of centre, flip the rocker shaft around try again. (the rocker holder is ofset to one side.

Call me if you want advise on adjusting rockers 519 763 8473

 

[Dixter]

Why did you put the spacers under the rocker stand ???

Could this extra height account for why you went with 7.70 vs 7.65 rods ??

Good point on checking the offset of the rocker stand.

 

[Jack B]

The kit comes with different size spacers. The valve geometry will vary with overall deck height and that height will vary from engine-to-engine. The spacers are to used to align the roller on the valve stem. Even the oem push rods are different lengths. The length is denoted by a factory color code on the rods.

I think everyone is missing a very important point, it is very easy to measure the rod length. Why would anyone arbitrarily assume they have the right length and try to make it work, when, they can as easily measure the length and know it is right, why take a chance.

If any one wants, I can send them a 7.65 Trick Flow single piece rod for them to use as a gauge. As I said before, the single piece rods tend to measure differently, due, to the way they seat in the rocker. I believe my setup would have worked with the 7.70 rods also, like Mike indicated.

 

[Mike Adams]

Of the 16 cars I have done they have required the thicker spacers and the 7.70 to get maximum oil flow through rocker. 7.65 is extremely close. The buy slapping the valve on the valve head you can check that the geometry is best possilbe. I spent allot time on the phone with T&D and this what the recommended as the thier little tool did not work on all applications. It is true getting a push rod measuring tool is the best (WHICH I DO USE). I am just telling you what I have found

 

[Dixter]

Mike, Did you use any spacers under the rocker stand?

 

[SUN RA KAT]

I want to thank everyone for their help here - these posts really help my Viper Tech install my T&Ds. Sean Roe also was a lot of help via the phone. He's got some soon to be released stuff that will blow you away.

Amazingly, the geometry was perfect with the stock pushrods - and yes it was checked & double checked just to make sure. The adjusters had to be turned less than a quarter turn!

Real nice increase in power. And exhaust noise, too. I won't be pulling out the owners manual to learn how to set stations on the radio.

 

[1TONY1]

I didn't see much difference, the .000 (no shim) did have LESS movement across the valve tip. T&D said less movement and a little off center was better than closer to center and more movement. I would like to see the movement on the valve tip on a set of heads that were properly milled for T&D's. I don't like the way the geometry was......I am going with Arrows on my car.

These patterns were taken by spinning the engine over. Shim size is written on retainer:

 

[FE 065]

Now you're going to need wrinkle wall slicks at Norwalk..! How in the heck can you feel the power gain when that supercharger/580hp is already rocketing you down the highway? I'm planning to make the trek to Norwalk from Metro Detroit. I'll be sure and look you up to check out your car. I see you're close to Dayton, I was at the WP Air Museum about 3 months ago..bought my current '02 GTS over in Delaware, OH at the end of March. Anyway, my 'to do' list for mods just got a bit longer