Kooks Headers?

[Fast Too]

Does anyone have them installed on a 06 SRT-10? If so whats your opinion and any realized gains?

 

[MikeR]

Search for Kooks headers. ILLSMOQ installed them on his 04. So same application as your 06. He had a Corsa also. He went from 471 rwhp with corsa to 496rwhp with Kooks and corsa. But he said they are a pian to install, have to lift and move engine forward and back to fit in. Still he was impressed with build and design quality. Send him a PM.

 

[Fast Too]

Thanks for the info Mike R.

 

[Viper X]

We did a dyno day at DC Performance this weekend. As I suspected, we learned that the 2005 and 2006 cars have some electronic additions that may make it safer for the engine when run hard, but these knock sensors and other the software changes that accompany them do make it harder to tune and make more hp / tq with bolt ons when compared to the 2003 / 2004 model years.

For example, my 2004 SRT 10 (pre-knock sensor +) made 500 rwhp / 525 rwtq with K & N's and headers. My 2006 SRTC made 450 rwhp / 465 rwtq with the same mods and a tune, on the same machine.

I think some of the magzines picked up on this when testing the 2003 vs the 2006. 0 - 60 was noted at 3.8 for the early cars while 0 - 60 is now reported as 4.2. Adapting our engines for those Viper trucks really screwed up the performance of the 2005 / 2006 cars, IMHO.

Good luck with your mods, but I doubt that you'll gain much with the addition of anyone's headers on your car.

Dan

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Yes I have the Kooks headers and I like them a lot. I would only recommend taking on that project if you have a lot of experiance with that sort of thing.

Bellangers are much easier to install. Most do it yourselfers could handle that job in their garage with a desent set of tools.

I don't know what kind of power gains you could expect on your 06... Dan's experience is saying not that much.

It will sound sound better anyway.

 

[MikeR]

We did a dyno day at DC Performance this weekend. As I suspected, we learned that the 2005 and 2006 cars have some electronic additions that may make it safer for the engine when run hard, but these knock sensors and other the software changes that accompany them do make it harder to tune and make more hp / tq with bolt ons when compared to the 2003 / 2004 model years.

For example, my 2004 SRT 10 (pre-knock sensor +) made 500 rwhp / 525 rwtq with K & N's and headers. My 2006 SRTC made 450 rwhp / 465 rwtq with the same mods and a tune, on the same machine.

Dan

And probably every car is different, just like dyno's and certain days have better temps.
My 05 and ILLSMOQ's 04 are side by side on roll ons and we dynod 9hp difference. He has headers, I dont. He was at 496, headers and Corsa only, no cats.
Im at 487 with corsa, no cats and DC tune and thats without headers. We dynod on same day,same dyno. Your 06 may just be a little weak from factory. These cars seem to vary alot.

 

[SylvanSRT]

if the going from 471--->496 hp included the removal of cat and the corsa along with the headers, the cats and corsa prob account for 15-18 of the hp i dont know that 15+ - hp is worth the aggrevation and cost of $3,000-4,000 very bad $ per hp value !

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

The factory headers are much better on the Gen IIIs than they were on the Gen IIs , so gains are not as pronounced. If you do decide to go with headers, I would just stick with Belangers with all their testing and R&D with the Comp Coupes. We see them putting out the most power, but again, as stated, it is not the 50+ gains often seen with the previous models ( Corsa, hi-flows, Belanger headers ).

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

PS- Noticed your other post, and frankly if you are going to Supercharge your car, save your money and just do a Corsa, and skip all the other stuff. It will just cost you a bunch of bucks for very little appreciable gain, will need more extensive tuning as all the extra items will likely cause it to run leaner.

Call Mark Jorgensen for more info, but a Paxton and a Corsa do wonders alone.

1-800-889-1893

 

[MikeR]

if the going from 471--->496 hp included the removal of cat and the corsa along with the headers, the cats and corsa prob account for 15-18 of the hp i dont know that 15+ - hp is worth the aggrevation and cost of $3,000-4,000 very bad $ per hp value !

It was only adding "Kooks Headers". Previous dyno a week before was Corsa and no cats. He then installled Kooks and re-dyno'd. It was a nice gain, plus he picked up alot of midrange. And this was all on stock tune.
And the Kooks cost him I beleive $2600 and he installed himself, so well worth the money. Plus his sounds better then mine with just corsa and no cats. The headers gave him a deeper tone.

 

[Viper X]

The headers do give a deeper tone and will make the car louder. How much louder is up to you. Take out the cats and the crossovers and you'll be really loud. You will also make more power, if you can stand the noise.

On the suject of engine hp / tq variance from car to car, there is some but not that much. We dyno'd 20 cars at DC and like years with like mods were so close, you would have thought that we faked the results.

For example, we had 10 SRT-10s between 436 rwhp and 453 rwhp. Rwtq was between 461 and 483. The 453 / 483 car was an 06 that had 8,000 plus miles on it, K & N's, DC tune and the comp coupe exhaust with no cats. It was really loud on the dyno.

Most of the other cars had cats and K & N's, some had headers with cats and crossovers, some had Corsa Track exhaust with cats. The cats and the crossovers made the biggest difference between the slightly higher hp cars and the slightly lower hp cars. My 2006 has both cats (high flow) and crossovers. There was about 15 to 20 hp there as noted. The headers just don't make that much difference, unfortunately. Mileage, clean (or dirty) air filters, the way the car was driven, temperature of the car (colder is better) and other variables can also affect hp.

The other big thing is the dyno. You guys in San Jose have a very generous dyno. If any of you ever get down to So Cal with your car, have DC do a couple of pulls. I'd be willing to bet your San Jose Dyno is about 20 hp above DC's; either that or you guys just get the best cars!

Dan

PS Either of you San Jose guys planning to join us in October at Hearst Castle?

 

[ILLSMOQ]

PS Either of you San Jose guys planning to join us in October at Hearst Castle?

Dan, I'm pretty sure Mike is going...I don't think I will be making it though. It would be cool to meet up with some of you Southern California guys...one of these days.

 

[MikeR]

The other big thing is the dyno. You guys in San Jose have a very generous dyno. If any of you ever get down to So Cal with your car, have DC do a couple of pulls. I'd be willing to bet your San Jose Dyno is about 20 hp above DC's; either that or you guys just get the best cars!

Dan

I totally agree about dyno's being different. I dont care if I make 500rwhp on one and 300 on another, as long as when I add a new part and I go to that same dyno, i want to see improvements.

So to say our dyno reads high is fine, but to dyno on SAME dyno a week apart, and gain 25 rwhp from "Only adding headers" is a GAIN...A NICE GAIN. Again, only change was adding headers to an already catless car with corsa.
Also others doubted DC tuning and removing cats. Said they only got 5+hp on tune and a few more with removing cats. Do you beleive that too? I dynod 466, a week later got DC computer and installed, removed cats and went back to SAME DYNO. Saw 21 rwhp from that change.
We also have a friend with supercharged C6, dyno'd at some Vette place and put down 494 rwhp, then dyno'd on our supposed "high" dyno and put down 485 rwhp.

SO again, im not arguing about dyno's, just saying dont knock mods that work. Unless you dyno on same day or a few days apart, it can be hard to get a accurate dyno result. Different temps/conditions etc. Had I read only threads saying guys get 5-10hp from headers, Id say headers are a waste. But when I see it on dyno for myself, Im going to give my .02 to maybe help someone on the fence about a purchase. Thens theres the real world racing that we do and each mod we wathed eachother pull away, until one of us did some mod to cath up. Also, use to be even with a Z06, now I walk them pretty hard. I guess sorry.....that your car didnt respond the way you thought it would.

 

[Viper X]

Hey Mike,

I have headers on all three of my Vipers, so I beleive they work and I believe they work better with less restriction behind them, at least to a point. Headers provide benefits other than big hp gains on a stock Viper. There was a time when Belanger claimed his headers made 50 hp when installed on a Viper. I just wish they worked better on the SRTC. By the time you pay for the headers, the exhaust and the installation, 25 or so rwhp isn't a very good bargain for the money.

I'm pretty certain that if I removed the cats and the crossovers and went with a three inch Corsa Track, I'd add + 20 or so peak rwhp. I actually think I did this with my 2004 when it was newer. Since this SRTC is my trip car, I really don't want to make it that loud. Also, Stryker heads, ported intake and ported throttle bodies are likely in the future for my SRTC, so headers were necessary to get the most from the forthcoming new mods. I already have one beast in the stable (925 rwhp), so when I want to stomp Z06's, Enzo's or Carera GTs, I can, very easily.

I also agree with you on the subject of testing on the same dyno because they do vary a bit. Glad you saw some improvement.

On the subject of the DC flash, here's what I posted on our local website in reponse to one of our members:

Hey Phil,

Results of the DC Computer re-flash for my 06 SRTC were about as expected. Highlights are:

- The car runs much cooler due to the 170 degree thermostat and the engine cooling fan now comes on sooner. The oil temps are lower too. This is a big plus in the summer and would be a big plus at the track, when you are stuck in traffic or driving to Vegas, etc.

- The skip shift is feature is now gone and that's great too. I've bumped into it a bunch trying to drive in slow /go traffic and parking lots.

- Exhaust popping was a bit crazy with this car after I put the Belanger Headers on. This is now better too.

- Hp and Tq went up over the entire rpm range as much as 20 hp and 25 lb ft of torque in the mid range. Peak HP went up only 4 to 447 and peak tq went up only 13 to 463. Dan said this car would not be typical of a stock car's peak improvements as it has headers. He was correct. The car feels stronger and peppier than before.

- I would recommend you have this done to your car. Too bad you couldn't make it, it was a good time.

I know I said I was planning to leave this car stock, but those Stryker Heads are looking pretty good .....

Dan

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See you at Hearst Castle I hope. Maybe you can talk ILLSMOQ into coming. We could do some roll ons. (don't tell anybody!)

Dan

 

[SylvanSRT]

on early cars gen 1 50 hp was a realizable gain by doing headers, this was minimized when the cars got different exhaust manifolds later in production. gen 3 cars have a very efficient header and 20+ - prob more realistic gain

 

[FE 065]

on early cars gen 1 50 hp was a realizable gain by doing headers, this was minimized when the cars got different exhaust manifolds later in production. gen 3 cars have a very efficient header and 20+ - prob more realistic gain

FWIW, the only claim of a 50hp gain I can recall hearing was when using Belangers and the rather loud Belanger bullet muffler equipped catback on G2 Vipers.

Though both G1 and G2 can gain 40hp or more according to BTR Viper's website. I thought it was more of a G2 thing. It has to be harder to get the complete 50hp gain the free flowing catback contributes with a sidepipe car.

He even used guarantee the 50hp gain if you used the complete system, but I don't see that on his website now.

A car would have to be equipped with really poor OE exhaust manifolds to see anywhere near 50hp from headers alone. Even one header manufacturer who's been in the business forever told me 25hp was about max.