Lets Settle This Once And For All

[ILLSMOQ]

Oh and how long do you think it takes to pour 2 quarts of windshield washer fliud into a tank? 10 seconds...
Would that be cheaper than your 100 octane/93 octane mix? YES
What is more convienient, having to visit the track and pay 5-7 bucks a gallon for the race fuel or visit any gas station or auto parts store and buy a few gallons of windshield washer fluid a year? Do I need to answer that.
-------
Bottom line is you couldn't be MORE WRONG in what methanol does according to the people that invented the stuff. Hey, it's your money to blow. Just when you start telling others the same inconsistencies you think are fact is where I have a problem.

who said anything about cost? You may be a "budget shopper", not all of us are...I'm talking about convienance and it's easier for me to run race gas...I don't even need it. My car is tuned for 91 octane, I'm just playing it safe.

so I skimed through you novel of a post up there it it basicly says if you wan't to get max power out of your "setup" run the water ****

Bottom line is your full of hot air...try some **** it may cool you down or it might do the opposite..dunno..I don't use the stuff.

....and uhm yeah, I'm still right

 

[ILLSMOQ]

I would be careful with the tensioner mod. Too much tension can damage the nose bearing on the supercharger and, possibly, the alternator bearing. Is the DLM tensioner more than a stock Paxton part with a few extra bolts and a paint job? Just curious. If you still have the original tensioner could you compare the two and report back? Thanks for the feedback. Happy Holidays!

Bob

Sorry Bob missed this earlier. DLM's tensioner mod uses the paxton tensioner. His "mod" is actually a modified tensioner release tool that comes with the paxton kit. It hooks on the to tensioner and if you crank it down it will pull on the tensioner making the belt tighter. You don't want to make it that tight though, you just want it to prevent too much slack in the belt.

 

[v10kingsnake]

who said anything about cost? You may be a "budget shopper", not all of us are...I'm talking about convienance and it's easier for me to run race gas...I don't even need it. My car is tuned for 91 octane, I'm just playing it safe.

so I skimed through you novel of a post up there it it basicly says if you wan't to get max power out of your "setup" run the water ****

Bottom line is your full of hot air...try some **** it may cool you down or it might do the opposite..dunno..I don't use the stuff.

....and uhm yeah, I'm still right

Race gas and **** both help against detonation.
**** costs much less then race gas.
**** cools intake charges.
Race gas does not.
Heat soak is a NON issue with ****.
Heat soak is with YOUR setup.
You are wrong.
Period.

 

[1badasssrt]

Black Mamba,
It is always nice to see the excitement when you start talking horsepower. Hell, can you ever have enough horsepower to satisfy us? You said early on that you are just wanting extra ponies just for the street and that you have not been beaten yet with your stock Viper. If that is the case than go with the cheepest horsepower you can get for the money and I think that is with the simple bolt on Paxton Kit. Now if you talked to a 100 of us folks your going to get a 100 different opions. I was in the same boat you were in a couple of years ago and wanted something alittle extra for the street only and it was a big jump in price from the $10,000 installed Paxton to the $30-$40,000 TT. I installed the Paxton and have been extremely impressed with it. The more you add the more you break and the install can be easily removed and taken back to stock if you want to sell the car someday. The bolt on Paxton gives you approx. a 200hp gain and what more do you need for the street. The big issue is putting the power to the ground and I installed the Race Logic Traction Control which I highly recomend for everyone to get, even with stock Vipers it will babysit you and put the maximum power to the pavement without letting you get side ways out of control. There are several good tuners out there but the one that did mine and several others was Mark Jorgenson at Woodhouse. Give Mark a call as he is very knowledgable in the systems. Good Luck with your decision and have fun and be safe with all the extra horsepower, it is a rush!!

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Race gas and **** both help against detonation.
**** costs much less then race gas.
**** cools intake charges.
Race gas does not.
Heat soak is a NON issue with ****.
Heat soak is with YOUR setup.
You are wrong.
Period.

is that a Haiku?

let me try..

**** makes more power
But a little more at that
a pain in the a$$

I'll just revert back to my original post on water ****

It is for people looking to milk out every last drop of power.

Refilling tanks gets old......just like filling a nitrous bottle gets old.

I don't doubt the fact that it works dude....some people (me) like a simpler setup.

 

[Bobpantax]

Sorry Bob missed this earlier. DLM's tensioner mod uses the paxton tensioner. His "mod" is actually a modified tensioner release tool that comes with the paxton kit. It hooks on the to tensioner and if you crank it down it will pull on the tensioner making the belt tighter. You don't want to make it that tight though, you just want it to prevent too much slack in the belt.

Thanks. Interesting. Do you happen to know how much the unmodified tensioner tool costs if you buy it from Paxton? Can you post photos of the modified tool?

By the way, ( sorry this is a little off point) I received Tom Nader's new N2 fill kit today. First, it looks pro and is produced by Powertank. Second, it solves a very real problem. The problem being how to conveniently adjust the level of gas in our Motons if one desires to do so. I do not anticipate doing so on a frequent basis but it is great to know that I can if I need to any time I want to.

 

[black mamba1]

Black Mamba,
It is always nice to see the excitement when you start talking horsepower. Hell, can you ever have enough horsepower to satisfy us? You said early on that you are just wanting extra ponies just for the street and that you have not been beaten yet with your stock Viper. If that is the case than go with the cheepest horsepower you can get for the money and I think that is with the simple bolt on Paxton Kit. Now if you talked to a 100 of us folks your going to get a 100 different opions. I was in the same boat you were in a couple of years ago and wanted something alittle extra for the street only and it was a big jump in price from the $10,000 installed Paxton to the $30-$40,000 TT. I installed the Paxton and have been extremely impressed with it. The more you add the more you break and the install can be easily removed and taken back to stock if you want to sell the car someday. The bolt on Paxton gives you approx. a 200hp gain and what more do you need for the street. The big issue is putting the power to the ground and I installed the Race Logic Traction Control which I highly recomend for everyone to get, even with stock Vipers it will babysit you and put the maximum power to the pavement without letting you get side ways out of control. There are several good tuners out there but the one that did mine and several others was Mark Jorgenson at Woodhouse. Give Mark a call as he is very knowledgable in the systems. Good Luck with your decision and have fun and be safe with all the extra horsepower, it is a rush!!

Thanks, I really appreciate the info. U r right, ask 100 guys, get 100 opinions...but that just means we are a versatile bunch.

Racelogic..now that is an interesting twist. I have not heard many Viper owners talk about this option, but it is definitely worth considering. I totally understand the purist point of view in keeping traction control between our foot and brain..and yes, that is fine for a 500 hp car. But when u get up in the 700 hp range it is pure math..things happen faster than the human brain can react to them. That is why most other sports cars have some form of traction assistance for cars 500 hp and over, or they have some tire set up that is not DOT approved. I have heard mixed reviews on Racelogic.

ON A TOTALLY SEPERATE NOTE...I am very disappointed in all the bashing of GM's decision to supercharge the ZR1. Hell, over half the Gen 3 Viper owners cannot wait to forcably induct their cars...we bragged for years how we could hand every other car its head on a plate w/ a 850 hp Paxton car....and when GM does the same thing from the factory we bash them like they are Communist Taliban insurgents!
While I would never buy one...that ZR1 is a BOLD statement by GM and will kick every single cars ass off the assemply line, save the Bugatti...just trust me. Until, the MOPAR ACR hits the streets (and even then who knows?) the ZR1 will most likely dominate the performance results in straight line competition (plus let us not forget payola).

Guys, Vipers are Vipers. They are exotic and are in a class all by themselves. There is no need to unfairly bash the competition...b/c all it is is competition...they still are not Vipers.

There are heavily modded Audi's and Infinit's out there w/ over 500 rwhp that will kick a stock Gen 3's ass...but guess what..they are Audi's and Infinit's, not Vipers.

Give credit where credit is due b/c no matter what, Vipers always hold their own.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

Thanks. Interesting. Do you happen to know how much the unmodified tensioner tool costs if you buy it from Paxton? Can you post photos of the modified tool?

By the way, ( sorry this is a little off point) I received Tom Nader's new N2 fill kit today. First, it looks pro and is produced by Powertank. Second, it solves a very real problem. The problem being how to conveniently adjust the level of gas in our Motons if one desires to do so. I do not anticipate doing so on a frequent basis but it is great to know that I can if I need to any time I want to.

Bob, no I don't know what it would cost. I can tell you that the DLM "fix" is basicly a paxton tool with a lock nut and a loop at the end of it. It's crude but it works well and for the 200 bucks it cost, it's not worth my time to make fab it up myself.

The power tank kit kit is great. I won't be using it on a frequent basis either but having the ability to check and adjust the settings is very nice.

 

[HI-NOS-Viper]

Although **** does have its pluses, its downfalls are that you have to tune for it, add more timing. What happens when you run out and you are not near anywhere to fill it up, are you going to WOT without any ****? Also its just one more thing that can go wrong in a setup, as rare as they may be. Dont get me wrong as stated it has its benefits, but its not a one all solution.

 

[v10kingsnake]

Although **** does have its pluses, its downfalls are that you have to tune for it, add more timing. What happens when you run out and you are not near anywhere to fill it up, are you going to WOT without any ****? Also its just one more thing that can go wrong in a setup, as rare as they may be. Dont get me wrong as stated it has its benefits, but its not a one all solution.

You are correct in much of what you say. I can't deny that it is a possibility of running out of it. UGR however DOESN't use it on their builds to go ultra aggressive with pump gas. It is merely tuned as a cooling agent so in my case if I ran dry in the tank and didn't know it going full throttle... the worse my motor faces is some heat soak. In the unliklihood I can't find a gallon of windshield washer fluid which is convieniently sold at any autoparts store, walmarts, gas stations, WAWA, etc. ALL around EVERYWHERE, I guess I have to keep the car under 150mph until I can.

One should be more concerned with running out of gas I suppose Last time I checked, there was no shortage of washer fluid around these parts.

 

[v10kingsnake]

Sorry Bob missed this earlier. DLM's tensioner mod uses the paxton tensioner. His "mod" is actually a modified tensioner release tool that comes with the paxton kit. It hooks on the to tensioner and if you crank it down it will pull on the tensioner making the belt tighter. You don't want to make it that tight though, you just want it to prevent too much slack in the belt.

Doug also like using 10 rib setups instead of the standard paxton 8 rib one. Theory is, more contact with a belt, less chance of slippage.

 

[Joseph Dell]

While there are some advantages to W/M, the biggest DIS-advantage is that like trailer-park ****, the best is mixed on your own at home. Washer fluid is inconsistent with its W/M percentages. Some might be 5%. some might be 12%. Mix your own and you are guaranteed the % you want. If you are mixing 10%, you get general cooling properties. Mix 50% and you are getting the ~120 octane benefit. So let's say you are tuned well with 50/50 but you stomp on it on a cast piston creampuff with 6psi running washer fluid instead. buh-bye ring lands.

As for running washer fluid through my motor... i'll pass. But as a band-aid, i'm all in favor of it.

Most of the 'engineering' books out there say that water injection and w/m injection are band-aids for poor system design. But that is hard-core engineers. This type of cooling has been used on planes and tanks since the 40's.

Is it right for everyone? nah. But does it work? Sure!

Or you could be like a local viper owner out here with the following in his trunk:
- Water/**** Tank
- Propane Tank
- NOS tank
- Fuel Cell
- Charcoal Grill (ok, i'm kidding about the grill).

you get the idea... When is it no longer a 'stock' car? and does it really matter?

Oh yeah.... when I ran Water Injection (never W/M) i used the washer fluid bottle that was under the hood. so there wasn't anything in the trunk. even mounted the water pump in the fascia. That's a clean install!

JD

 

[v10kingsnake]

While there are some advantages to W/M, the biggest DIS-advantage is that like trailer-park ****, the best is mixed on your own at home. Washer fluid is inconsistent with its W/M percentages. Some might be 5%. some might be 12%. Mix your own and you are guaranteed the % you want. If you are mixing 10%, you get general cooling properties. Mix 50% and you are getting the ~120 octane benefit. So let's say you are tuned well with 50/50 but you stomp on it on a cast piston creampuff with 6psi running washer fluid instead. buh-bye ring lands.

As for running washer fluid through my motor... i'll pass. But as a band-aid, i'm all in favor of it.

Most of the 'engineering' books out there say that water injection and w/m injection are band-aids for poor system design. But that is hard-core engineers. This type of cooling has been used on planes and tanks since the 40's.

Is it right for everyone? nah. But does it work? Sure!

Or you could be like a local viper owner out here with the following in his trunk:
- Water/**** Tank
- Propane Tank
- NOS tank
- Fuel Cell
- Charcoal Grill (ok, i'm kidding about the grill).

you get the idea... When is it no longer a 'stock' car? and does it really matter?

Oh yeah.... when I ran Water Injection (never W/M) i used the washer fluid bottle that was under the hood. so there wasn't anything in the trunk. even mounted the water pump in the fascia. That's a clean install!

JD

6. Where can I purchase Methanol?


SP sells 50/50% methanol/waterMethanol as Boost Juice™ (see products). Methanol can generally be purchased where racing fuels are sold. Also, most gas line dryers like "Heat" are simply Methanol. Suppliers of industrial chemicals can also supply Methanol usually at a higher price than fuel suppliers.

If all else fails, most windshield washer fluids are up to 40% Methanol and 58% water. Although most contain some glycol and detergent(less than 1%), most windshield washer fluids are up to 40% methanol. Try to find one that indicates "contains methanol" and is rated to -20ºf.

Methanol can be purchased on the web at World Wide Racing Fuels in Richmond Virginia and hiperfuels.com.



7. What ratio of water/methanol is recommended?

A 50/50 ratio is recommended. This has been demonstrated to be the best for charge/air cooling, excellent detonation control, and safety.











I used the "windshield washer" bit as a ploy to example how simplified it CAN be. You aren't going to hurt anything using a 40/58 blend even though ideally it is stated above from snow performances site that a 50/50 blend is better.

 

[v10kingsnake]

Joseph, I would love to hear which books you were referring to in your above post.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Corky Bell's Supercharged AND Maximum Boost.

and don't belive everything you read on vendor web sites about the water/**** content of windshield washer fluid... It isn't correct.

JD

 

[v10kingsnake]

Corky Bell's Supercharged AND Maximum Boost.

and don't belive everything you read on vendor web sites about the water/**** content of windshield washer fluid... It isn't correct.

JD

I may be incorrect Joseph but I believe if my memory stands the inference to calling the w/m inj. a band aid fix by Bell was used implying NO INTERCOOLER BEING USED. I agree with that too, but if an intercooler is used then I think Mr. Bell may have meant that to read a bit differently. Also, I believe that Corky wrote those books over a decade ago. Not exactly in the know, unless he was psychic in where the technology was heading today.
Maybe you shouldn't believe everything you believe as gospel, especially in books written more then 10 years ago. Corkey has a lot of good principles and ideas on paper but I believe his book, as one would expect, can use some updating after 10 years of time. Anything bookwise that you read calling w/m inj. a bad thing which was published in the last 10 years...

 

[MikeR]

Black mamba,

On a side note, something I just remebered and it made me laugh. So I had added a TB and pulley and was at same power as ILLSMOQ before his Paxton. We both dyno'd 496 rwhp, with differnet mods. Anyways I knew he wasnt going to let that stand, So his car was out of commision for a few weeks. Little did I know he was secretly installing the Paxton. (Bast*rd , lol) Anyways, he led me to believe he was just getting the DC tune.

So a few weeks prior I had actually started to pull him just slightly. I was feeling pretty good. Now 2 weeks later we go out, sure enough we both drop a couple gears and get on it. I CANT BEAT HIM!!!!!! Sometimes I got the jump, but somehow he would come right back up and hold me off by a car , or if he got the jump he would just stay a car ahead. I couldnt understand it. His car sounded a little different and we seemed to shift at different points. Which normally we were matched. So I figured he got a tune and gears.

Point of the story is i finally figured out he had the Paxton. He was playing with me. He said he would just apply a little more throttle as needed, yet as I tried as hard as I could never beat him, we would do 3-4 runs at a time. And this was with STOCK Paxton kit were he did feel some heatsoak. No his car is even fatser with the DLM stuff.

So as far as worrying if your going to get beat by a 500rwhp car if you get a Paxton, I say forget it you wont. If he had enough power to just toy with me, which i think is harder to do then actually going all out, then you will never need to worry. And like I said earlier, now that he has the DLM stuff and is actually trying to race me, he KILLS me.
I will have my Paxton by probably May. Id say do it, if ya havent already ordered it. haha
Ad then the extra money you save from TT, get some wheels. I just put 19/20 Iforged on with Black centers last night. It looks Bad A$$. Really fills up the wheel wells with the motons and the offset looks killer, tires come right out to the fenders now. ill get pics up soon.

 

[Red Snake]

Let me fan the water **** flames some more.

I have a 2 gallon w/m tank mounted in the rear of my car. It is ABSOLUTELY NOT a problem or a hassel to pour in 1 gallon of methanol and 1 gallon of distilled water (50/50 mix) once or twice a year.

My local speed shop sells it all day long by the gallon.

As far as running out....damaging your engine....get real. I have a w/m card and a non w/m card for my VEC that I can change the tune on in about 3 seconds. You'd have to be a blithering idiot to blow up your car because you ran out of w/m.

As for the benefits, you can put your hand on an intake tube when the engine is warm, rev the motor and when the w/m sprays you can feel the intake tube turn cold to the touch.

IMO it is worth 10 times what the kit costs to eliminate heat soak. I have all of my engine's power available ALL of the time. Doesn't get any better than that.

 

[Joseph Dell]

While the books were written more recently than you indicate, I will always take the word of real world experience versus just quoting a web site or repeating what you have heard.

You have one of those but not the other. So while you are promoting that which you have heard, it would be nice if you could be something more than a parrot.

Back on topic, I have no issues with W/M but it does add another 'layer' to owning and operating the vehicle. To think that you just plug it in and turn it on and wow you have a magic 70+rwhp... Not so much.

JD

I may be incorrect Joseph but I believe if my memory stands the inference to calling the w/m inj. a band aid fix by Bell was used implying NO INTERCOOLER BEING USED. I agree with that too, but if an intercooler is used then I think Mr. Bell may have meant that to read a bit differently. Also, I believe that Corky wrote those books over a decade ago. Not exactly in the know, unless he was psychic in where the technology was heading today.
Maybe you shouldn't believe everything you believe as gospel, especially in books written more then 10 years ago. Corkey has a lot of good principles and ideas on paper but I believe his book, as one would expect, can use some updating after 10 years of time. Anything bookwise that you read calling w/m inj. a bad thing which was published in the last 10 years...

 

[black mamba1]

Black mamba,

On a side note, something I just remebered and it made me laugh. So I had added a TB and pulley and was at same power as ILLSMOQ before his Paxton. We both dyno'd 496 rwhp, with differnet mods. Anyways I knew he wasnt going to let that stand, So his car was out of commision for a few weeks. Little did I know he was secretly installing the Paxton. (Bast*rd , lol) Anyways, he led me to believe he was just getting the DC tune.

So a few weeks prior I had actually started to pull him just slightly. I was feeling pretty good. Now 2 weeks later we go out, sure enough we both drop a couple gears and get on it. I CANT BEAT HIM!!!!!! Sometimes I got the jump, but somehow he would come right back up and hold me off by a car , or if he got the jump he would just stay a car ahead. I couldnt understand it. His car sounded a little different and we seemed to shift at different points. Which normally we were matched. So I figured he got a tune and gears.

Point of the story is i finally figured out he had the Paxton. He was playing with me. He said he would just apply a little more throttle as needed, yet as I tried as hard as I could never beat him, we would do 3-4 runs at a time. And this was with STOCK Paxton kit were he did feel some heatsoak. No his car is even fatser with the DLM stuff.

So as far as worrying if your going to get beat by a 500rwhp car if you get a Paxton, I say forget it you wont. If he had enough power to just toy with me, which i think is harder to do then actually going all out, then you will never need to worry. And like I said earlier, now that he has the DLM stuff and is actually trying to race me, he KILLS me.
I will have my Paxton by probably May. Id say do it, if ya havent already ordered it. haha
Ad then the extra money you save from TT, get some wheels. I just put 19/20 Iforged on with Black centers last night. It looks Bad A$$. Really fills up the wheel wells with the motons and the offset looks killer, tires come right out to the fenders now. ill get pics up soon.

Great info! Thanks!

 

[v10kingsnake]

Maximum Boost: Corky Bell: ISBN 9780837601601

While the books were written more recently than you indicate, I will always take the word of real world experience versus just quoting a web site or repeating what you have heard.

You have one of those but not the other. So while you are promoting that which you have heard, it would be nice if you could be something more than a parrot.

Back on topic, I have no issues with W/M but it does add another 'layer' to owning and operating the vehicle. To think that you just plug it in and turn it on and wow you have a magic 70+rwhp... Not so much.

JD

Check your sources JD, The maximum boost book was PUBLISHED in April 1997 and the last time I checked on the number of years in a decade the number was 10. So my indication of "more than a decade" is quite accurate being last April was the 10 year anniversary for that cutting edge book you model your knowledge after.
Care to post the phasing Ole Corky uses to describe liquid intercooling as a "band-aid" for poorly designed systems? Guess what JD, you won't find it Corky is referring to using water injection as being a bad choice when it is your SOLE form of intercooling. Care to re-evaluate my earlier post for where I suggested doing that? Guess what JD, you won't find that either
Facts are facts and if yours were relying on your interpretation of Corky Bells books you better read them again. This time with your eyes open. Maybe me being in the holiday spirit and all I could recommend a better book for a gentleman such as yourself...
"Turbocharging For Dummies". You stick to your limited knowledge of keeping an engine together and I will perhaps forget you poking your nose in every thread like you actually know what your talking about, or in this particular case, what you think Corky was trying to teach you Peace

 

[Joseph Dell]

"The world according to Josh". Once again. I'm surprised it took you this long to respond!

Josh - You have no real-world experience. you also are a major blow-hard. If you ever get your car back, you'll be a check-writer. but not much more.

Go back to the alley where you belong. You have nothing to contribute here. You take my general comments and turn them into personal attacks. I'm sure you make your son proud. Dad's a ********... I bet he can't wait to tell all his friends.

I've actually BUILT engines... have you done anything other than be an absolute *sshole to people on these forums? Myself included? And STOP PMing me! I'm not going to call you because I don't care what you have to say!

I should have come to Bradenton just so I could show your kid that dad's body can't back up dad's mouth.

Oh... and I know Corky Bell personally. But I'm sure you can interpret his intent better than I possibly could.

For those interested in fruitful conversation, please feel free to PM me. This a-hole isn't worth the bandwidth.

Just so the rest of the world can have the answers, please tell us all:
- What is your first-hand experience with anything related to a viper engine (other than putting gas in)?
- Why do you feel the need to attack people on this board?
- Like I've asked you THREE times previously, why is MY personal business with my car YOUR business?

Please tell us all why you are so interested!

JD

 

[v10kingsnake]

Supercharged!: Corky Bell: ISBN 9780837601687

Well it seems like the Supercharger book was published after the more than decade old Maximum boost version but 2001 wasn't exactly around the corner. Besides that is the PUBLISHED DATE not when it was written so I may be correct there as well in assuming Corky wrote that one a few years before getting her published making IT TOO a decade old info source as well.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Supercharged!: Corky Bell: ISBN 9780837601687

Well it seems like the Supercharger book was published after the more than decade old Maximum boost version but 2001 wasn't exactly around the corner. Besides that is the PUBLISHED DATE not when it was written so I may be correct there as well in assuming Corky wrote that one a few years before getting her published making IT TOO a decade old info source as well.

And your contribution to innovation in supercharging and turbocharging is what??? I must have missed that piece.

It isn't like the technology has changed since the 50's... so your point is what here???

idiot...

 

[v10kingsnake]

Personal threats Joe? A simple you were correct and I was not would have sufficed. You have shamed Corky with your interpretation of his books. Anyone one of the folks at Bradenton can tell you how upset they were you didn't show. Even if the motor wasn't feeling together enough to make it you could have still had the beans to back up your mouth in person. We both knew you wouldn't though. Bye Joey.

 

[v10kingsnake]

I wanted to give my most sincere apologies for another of Josephs uncalled for outbursts. His words are harmless though. It's just his tuning advice you have to be leary of listening to. There's a reason Joseph is a pro at tearing down his motor. Anyone that detonates theirs as often as him would learn fast too.

 

[Joseph Dell]

I wanted to give my most sincere apologies for another of Josephs uncalled for outbursts. His words are harmless though. It's just his tuning advice you have to be leary of listening to. There's a reason Joseph is a pro at tearing down his motor. Anyone that detonates theirs as often as him would learn fast too.

Are you done? We know that Josh can't go without having the very last word. Even when I've repeatedly asked you to leave me alone you can't do it.

So let's try again... Can you leave me alone?

Go back to your hole where you can rot in hell. Hopefully in your car... if you ever get it back.

 

[black mamba1]

Guys...knock it off its X-Mas for crissake. Mr. v10kingsnake, while I dont know u personally, I do know Joseph. I have never met a more stand up guy than Joseph Dell in this VCA forum..and that in and of itself says a lot, b/c there are many stand up Viper owners here.

Joseph has VOLUNTEERED his time and experience FREE OF CHARGE to many of us rather new Viper owners...everything from his very in-depth expertise, to offering to tune Vipers free of charge. He responds to every email and is honest and very smart. While you may prove your point, your attempts to discredit Joseph are a waste of time, and totally not in the spirit of this VCA forum, or of the season. I am not taking sides, I really dont care who is right.

All I am saying Joseph Dell is a stand up guy, and a very smart stand up guy...and he has built 1200 hp Vipers.

So...Merry X-mas to both of you...and lets have a Happy New and Safe year!

 

[v10kingsnake]

Guys...knock it off its X-Mas for crissake. Mr. v10kingsnake, while I dont know u personally, I do know Joseph. I have never met a more stand up guy than Joseph Dell in this VCA forum..and that in and of itself says a lot, b/c there are many stand up Viper owners here.

Joseph has VOLUNTEERED his time and experience FREE OF CHARGE to many of us rather new Viper owners...everything from his very in-depth expertise, to offering to tune Vipers free of charge. He responds to every email and is honest and very smart. While you may prove your point, your attempts to discredit Joseph are a waste of time, and totally not in the spirit of this VCA forum, or of the season. I am not taking sides, I really dont care who is right.

All I am saying Joseph Dell is a stand up guy, and a very smart stand up guy...and he has built 1200 hp Vipers.

So...Merry X-mas to both of you...and lets have a Happy New and Safe year!

Happy holidays to you as well. (the last word )

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

As for the DLM intercooler, there are different views as to the benefit. It does weigh more. It also, as noted above, does not completely cure heat soak. If you are going to quarter mile the car, ice has its benefits. As for road racing, I think that there are a number of posters running the stock system with the stock intercooler that have not had any problems. But, I was not really going to the issue of tensioners and bigger intercoolers. The issue of going beyond the stock kit concerns building up the engine, etc. I have he.

Hello Bob,
FYI, our DLM front mount cooler weighs LESS, not more. The dry weight of our cooler is 3lbs and the stock one on your car weighs 6lbs.

As noted, our cooler does not "cure" heat soak, although it helps to eliminate elevating temperatures on & off boost. The byproduct of compressing air is heat, and heat causes detonation. The whole principal of utilizing an intercooler (or actually an aftercooler) ...

1) to remove heat from the boosted air resulting in cooler charge air temps, hence, denser air equates to MORE air being packed into the engine cylinders. The result, more power.

2) SAFER power, pump gas friendlier, more spark advance - again, more power.

Also, since we are on the subject for anyone interested

Which measurable boost pressure number will make power AFTER a few spirited boosted runs?

3 psi of cold air ?

- OR -

6 psi of hot air ?

Next:

Which measurable boost pressure involves the least amount of risk of breaking a cast piston during boosting?

7 psi of cold air ?

- OR -

7 psi of hot air ?

Thanks for the comments and input! Happy Holidays!

Best regards,
Doug